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W. Hock Hochheim's

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  • January 19, 2018, 07:07:58 AM
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Author Topic: SFC long gun  (Read 1233 times)

spanky

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SFC long gun
« on: September 22, 2005, 08:46:49 AM »

Hock

I believe you said the official SFC long gun is the shotgun. The most prolific shotgun in this country is the Remington 870, have you considered the new Remington rifles the 7600 in .308 and the 7615 in .223 ? The 7615 uses M16/AR15 magazines. Both of these rifles are pumps and work exactly as the 870, they are available with the ghost ring or rifle sights.

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Hock

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Re: SFC long gun
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2005, 06:06:07 PM »

Well sir. the debate is always on hot and heavy for the SFC long gun.

My problem was that the rifle is a 10 level course in itself, while the shotgun was not and could be taught quicker.

My favorite gun guy is, of course Steve Krystek and over pizza, whiskey and beers last week in Vegas this subject came up. Steve loves the M4 and rightly so....and that training wise, there might not be a whole lot of training to do with a shotgun.(compared to a rifle) In a way, I kinda' like the sound of that.

Using a shotgun all the time is not proper, neither is just using an M4 or other rifles. Soooo, rather than create a 15-level plus course of pistols and rifles, I decided just to toss in the simple shotgun.

Of course, I encourage and hope people will study with the rifle too. Steve has some great courses.

Hock

Professor

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Re: SFC long gun
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2005, 06:09:09 PM »

I don't know that it really matter the "rifle/shotgun/carbine"  good long gun tactics work with any of these.....

Add one vote with Steve!   

The(evilblackgun)Professor
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Trembula

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Re: SFC long gun
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2005, 07:10:31 PM »

In my humble opinion, the CQC range sort of ends when rifling becomes a requirement - that would be entering into CQB (of an urban, suburban, or rural [further broken down to vegitated and "clearer" terrain]).

Dan
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spanky

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Re: SFC long gun
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2005, 07:33:02 PM »

Hey

15 or 20 levels whatever it takes I don't mind and I'm sure most on this site won't either.  ;)

I was checking out Krystek's site it looks pretty good, those video clips of the local news reports look pretty good too

The M4 now that is something else entirely, I'm not a fan in the least and my friends over there in the sandbox aren't fans of the M4 either it seems to be the worst variant of the M16/AR15 family.
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Trembula

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Re: SFC long gun
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2005, 08:57:14 PM »

Yes, but it is so CUTE!!! and gear queers keep figuring out ways to hang more and more gadgets, widgets, and doohickeys on it. The result is a pimped out tricked out piece of aluminum, steel, polymer, that is still a .22 - illegal for anything larger than poodles and other varmits in many states, let alone deer or anything human sized, weighs more than an M-14 and feels like a toy more than a weapon.

Methinks the M4gery is the dress-up Barbie doll toy of the geardos. Sadly this trend is expanding to scatterguns and folks keep figuring out ways to attach questionable stuff to even the vernerable 870 like AR-15 style sights (what's wrong with regular ghost ring or notch and post?), telescoping M4 style stocks (want to make 12 ga recoil worse), rail systems, (to attach more crap), IR beacons, sidesaddles, speedfeed stocks, high speed finishes to prevent rust and attacks from Mars dust, speedloaders for 3 gun craziness,  lasers, flashlights (okay, this one can be worth it sometimes working a slide and a handheld light at the same time is a juggling act at best), single point, loop, three point, and various bastardizations of them, reflex sights, scopes, porting, compensation, vented ribs, etc and the list goes on and on (hopefully not in the same gun). Meanwhile the terminal ballistics aren't any better nor is the rate of fire statistically different from ye old Model 97 Trench Broom.

Inasofar as scatterguns are concerned, I like the sleeker lines and MUCH smaller array of doohickeys for the Mossberg 500/590/S&W 3000 series. Plus the ambi safety that is tang mounted is nice too. Some ghost ring or iron sights and sling, maybe a flashlight if you think you need it and you are gtg.

Maybe I am wrong here, but I think that the long gun in the Congress is more of a conceptual weapon for retention, movements, reaching out a little and touching someone, etc. Including carbines and rifles opens up a whole new kettle of wriggly worms and unlike shotguns which come in two main varieties (slide and semi-auto), the manual of arms on even the most ubiquitous long guns (AK, AR-15/M16/M4, Mini-14, M-14, FAL, HK, and add in a few more for good measure) changes the techniques for almost everything MUCH quicker. Somebody once told me that the shotgun (particularly with slugs) is just a four to eight shot (i.e. very limited magazine capacity) .72 calibre carbine (have to love the sound of that bore size) and the major skill to master other than the rang/accuracy limitations (less than one might think with good slugs and proper barrels) and recoil is loading/reloading drills and for the pump guns, slide manipulation.

Time to get off my soapbox... err hospital bed for a few minutes and let the folks who actually do this get a word in edgewise on this pontificatory gimp.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2005, 09:00:42 PM by Trembula »
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