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[Joe Hubbard]

UFC 55 had an interesting fight between Alessio Sakara and Rick Faircloth.  Round 1 starts and Sakara immediately dominates the fight punishing Faircloth exponentially with a barrage of hammer fists, elbows and punches while maintaining top-side saddle for the entire first round.  You could see the referee waiting to step in and stop the fight, but Faircloth just took this abuse like a step child.  Round 2 starts and Faircloth- who is exhausted from the first round- steps in with a inside leg hook kick and nails Sakara right in the “family jewels.”  Sakara hesitates and drops to the mat doubled over in pain, coughing and retching.  The 205lb Sakara is finished with one groin kick; he cannot get up and continue! 


Ciao

Joe

[Wardog]

And your point is what? Anybody can be dropped by a groin kick. And no one needs to buy thousands of dollars worth of RBSD dvd's or attend classes to kick someone in the balls. In the ring the fighter is not defending against a groin kick or expecting it because it is illegal. I think in the street it would be a different story. He would expect it. Again, it was a pro fighter against another pro fighter too, some bum streetfighter probably wouldn't even have time to take the shot before the a UFC guy had kicked his ass.  These are bad examples to defend RBSD because everyone is in the same position if caught by total surprise. Everyone. Total surprise is also  something no one can defend against. No One. And when you are defending you never have the element of total surprise because the encounter has already been initiated.

[Joe Hubbard]

I’m not defending any martial system, no less RBSD here.  It is just another good example of “muscle memory” and how that relates to sport vs. street orientation.  You yourself said that he wasn’t expecting a groin kick in the ring, so how would he suddenly change mindsets for the street?  Did you see the fight?  Because Faircloth was by no means a matched fighter to the obviously more talented Sakara.  Sure, Faircloth could take some punishment, but by no means had any real moves against the Roman when put under that kind of pressure.  It was just interesting to see this guy losing miserably and then winning because he cheated.  I am not taking anything away from the sports guys, only another observation in cheating and dirty tricks to win- that’s survival!

Ciao

Joe 

[Wardog]

Yes I believe that he would change mindsets in the street. I didn't see the fight but the guy he fought was still a pro fighter. Do dirty tricks work in the street? Yes, of course they do. No argument. And sorry there  are so many people on these forums who discount the skills of a pro fighter and think that if they are average guys with an eye jab they can win against anyone I get defensive. If that wasn't your point I apologize.

[Joe Hubbard]

Apology accepted bro.

Best

Joe

[Nick Hughes]

Wardog,

Why are all MMA guys always so defensive?  Nobody on this forum that I can see has ever discounted pro fighters...ever.

If you read the analogy I posted about what they do being different to what we do just as formula one race drivers are different from a security driver you'd see that nobody is denigrating what they do.  In their environement most of us would get our butts stomped.  But, as I pointed out in my analogy, I wouldn't want the race driver when going to Columbia to transport a potential target round...I'd take the Secret Service trained guy.

What's so hard to grasp with the concept?

Why are all MMA guys alwasy so defensive (insecurity perhaps?)

N

[tlouis]

I agree with Ninor. I remember years ago ex-football player Jim Brown saying while he would have no chance vs. Muhammad Ali in the ring it would be a whole different story in some alley.I think what this story points out is that there are rules in MMA. You know even in the first UFC there were rules. No eye gouges, fishooking, small joint manipulation, clawhand strikes to the throat, no intentioan targeting of the knee, no kicking with shoes on etc... So much for "The only rules are there are no rules" There is no doubt that these guys are tough, tough guys. And they are well trained fighters. All other things being equal, these guys would kick ass even in the street. But in the street all things are not equal. People carry weapons, there are weapons of opportunity, there is deception, ambush, environmental obstacles. All these things negate IMO a lot of what MMA's bring to the a SD situation. And i'm not talking about some ridiculousTRS scenario in  some bar. Guys on the street who are not well versed in MMA type fighting will bring something else to the fight.

[Nick Hughes]

tlouis,

And that dovetails with something I told another MMA mate of mine I was debating this with.  The streetfighter knows his limitations against a trained fighter so he compensates....he does this by bringing his mates with him and he does it by bringing weapons.  He almost always stacks the odds well in his favour.

There's something else in Wardog's post and that is the assumption that all RBSD guys are unhealthy fat slobs in cammo pants who are relying on their secret eye jab technique.

Dennis Martins group and my students here in the States do workouts like you wouldn't believe..in line with what I  did in the commandos in the Legion.

Generalization is a big mistake

N

[spanky]

Anyone see UFC tonight welterweights fighting the guy on the bottom was being cautioned several times for downward elbows to the head and kicking upward to the face SHEEESH talk about poor muscle memory 

[Wardog]

I don't doubt that some RBSD guys are extremely fit fighters. I do however imagine many who sign on to the RBSD philosophy to be guys who think they can become deadly fast and who talk like they are on par with a pro UFC fighter. They aren't.  I have had RBSD guys basically say that they have a better chance in the street than Vanderlai Silva. My comment regarding streetfights are limited to one on one affairs. Frankly if a guy has 6 buddies and weapons and anyone is unarmed they are screwed.  Period. I don't care what you are training in. I may have overreacted in my initial post and I apologized. I just see so much of that sort of keyboard warrior thing. Ninor , guys like you are the exception not the rule and again I was pointing at folks who do train in a couple of things, don't really exercise etc. The one's who think that size, strength etc can be overcome by the two dirty tricks they know. I by no means discount RBSD systems or their practitioners on the whole.

[MECHZILLA]

the will... if focused... can overcome any adversity.... classic display of... "you never know"...


thats why ring matches dissapoint me... street fights often do too...
cuz they can be the best trained in the best condition... and catch a hook outta nowhere... and be done...       

[Ryan]

The punch that knocks you out is the one you didn't see coming.

[Kentbob]

   Except, I seem to recall reading an article in Grappling, or Fightsport, or some other magazine like that, about Carlos Newton, a UFC fighter, putting 6 or 7 guys in the hospital during a riot in Toronto.  That to me seems like a dude who has his act together, and has decent muscle memory.  Of course, he is bigger and faster than the average toronto citizen, I am sure.  Also, we will probably never know what techniques he used, but there is nothing to say he didn't hit each person once and then gundam stomp them when they fell on the ground.  But, I thought it was an interesting article, and he took a few guys down after he got stabbed in the back by one rioter.


Kent

[Merc]

All good comments.

For what it is worth, I always kept my guard up in the ring against any strike because even by accident people would kick low to my groin or strike towards my throat.

Great point re muscle memory and that a surprise attack is tough.

Look forward to learning from you all.

[Professor]

All good comments.

For what it is worth, I always kept my guard up in the ring against any strike because even by accident people would kick low to my groin or strike towards my throat.

Great point re muscle memory and that a surprise attack is tough.

Look forward to learning from you all.

Welcome to the nuthouse....(no pun intended)!