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Author Topic: CDT-LRT  (Read 3845 times)

Kentbob

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CDT-LRT
« on: October 20, 2005, 03:34:33 AM »

     Anyone see the November issue of Black Belt?  I see that CDT is once again in the highlights.  I am curious if anyone out there has any experience with this system.  It seems like it is to complicated and requires to much precision to really be effective in the sting and clash of battle.  Not without really softening the dude up first, and then, haven't we just defeated the purpose?  Curious to hear some feedback.


Kent
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JimH

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 05:46:44 AM »

Kent,

Patire's life story is a fabrication.

CDT started out as a system similar to Hapkido.

Then it was changed to a Pain compliance system that was being forced on people because Petire said if youd id not sign on he would be a prosecution witness and get you in court.

Then he changed to a school for everything,police trainer,bodyguard school,military trainer,on and on.

Now he he back with a revised CDT program.

Here is a story,I witnessed with my own eyes.

There was a Hall of fame diner in atlantic city,Petire and his men had done a seminar the day before in controlling people,drunks and drug addicts,the whole line.

Sunday was check out for most who attended.

Near the Check out area in the lower level of the Trop there was a Intox Veteran,he was yelling carrying on,fighting off the hotel security.

A couple of CDT guys,with their CDT golf shirts on,said they would get him,LOL,NOT.

They tried to Grab the man ,they did the lat Grab,they tried to grab and control his arms,they tried to pin him all tactics failed,this guy fought them off as easily as he fought off the security guards,they gave up.

A bunch of Police came and with EMS they jumped the guy pinned him,rolled him,cuffed him and threw him on the stretcher and wheeled him off.

CDT failed in what it was said to be the superior system for,getting compliance for anyone due to anatomical structure and pain receptors,lol.
It is a load of crap.

I also have Patire's series and it is similar to Dilmans Pressure point techniques and  kyusho jitsu.(pinching and twisting skin and or muscle groups does not work on an adrenaline charged person,no less a drunk or drug addict,the point strikes and the knockouts also rarely come)

Patire is a con man,in the same league as Jerry Petereson of SCARS,now Petire is an expert on Security,Police Tactics and even terrorism,he is a go to expert on the tV and in print,what a load of crap.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 09:34:48 AM by Hock »
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Street Survival Systems

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 06:40:46 AM »

I read the article about CDT-LRT in Black Belt. I do not know what to think about the whole CDT thing. I also have bought the Training for Life series.
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Hock

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2005, 08:37:58 AM »

Here's the deal...

While trying to retain some diplomacy...

A) I agree with everything Jim H wrote.

b) CDT is/has imploded because it was a goofy idea- that squeezing people like CDT does will cripple attackers. Junk. Junk. Junk. Plus, the organization raped students with horrible fees. It was just a matter of time.

I first saw CDT in police magazines with photos of officers controlling muscle-bound criminals with pinchy/squeezy holds while they aimed their guns at other off-screen felons. I said, "RIGHT!" (code word for bullshit) It took minutes for street cops to figure out that was silly. It took hours for desk-bound "don't sue us," police administrators to catch on, though-so it had an hour of raising fame. (Just for the record, I have had an NJ, CDT guy put the CDT squeezies on me. It is just silly.)

c) Tom came into some money. (I am told by insiders he was financed by friends on Wall St?) I use to know how. With this loot, bankrolled the CDT program. Ads! Ads! Ads! These ads were in the martial arts school organization magazines like NAPMA, etc. hooking these chain schools into franchises, etc. This was the same business plan that keep Los Angeles Krav Maga afloat for years. (it too, is imploding from within, world-wide, for several other reasons.)

d) I am originally a New Jersey boy and I know lots of New Jersey people where Tom is from. He did a lot of combat hapikido years back. I know people that studied with him then and were quite happy and still speak well of those days. In fact, Tom's inner group of tough guys you often see in ads, are actually old-time hapkido guys and are a tough, athletic, cross-trained group.

People now argue about his credible rank in all that. I cannot speak to that, but I have been told since CDT crashed, he had to make Last Resort Tactics- which is...surprise!...combat hapkido in a polo shirt. With the implosion of CDT (ran out of the 50 suckers a year as I like to say, with these courses) he has had to re-invent the wheel to stay afloat. LRT!

e) I am told by that the hand, stick, knife and gun camps that I have run since the 1990s, have partially inspired him to try the same look and business. You see, outsiders think I am a successful millionaire from them. HA! Triple HA! Anyway, Tom has been advertising this style of camp in full-color ads for two years now, yet has not had one? Not enough pre-sign-ups. I can only imagine how expensive they are.

I too, read the Black Belt magazine article and had to gag. But, my gag factor is very high with martial arts magazines. I personally dislike articles that are thinly disguised ads for a person or system, and then impart little-to no education. That was one such ad/article. The staff at these magazines are shackled to their advertisers and therefore "forced" to run these articles. Just a fact of survival. Called "checkbook journalism." Black Belt mag editors started using the term "politically correct" self-defense for CDT.

Using the house of cards resume Jim H refers to, he smooth talks his way into the local FOX TV affiiliates and gets these little safety gig segments. Good for him. We should all do that and could. Go for it! And, no doubt when you research the tons of available crime prevention material out there and free on the internet, do a little cut and paste, his safety books and gigs are pretty sound information, I'll just bet. Good for him. But, as a business veteran, I know that crime prevention and safety does not sell to the public. It ain't sexy. its boring and frightening to people. You will do better selling vacuum cleaners. Tom has tried this route. That info is very good, and needs spreading. That was a good idea. This is the Training-for-Life series, Kent mentioned, or I think anyway. Probably the LRT will be smarter, because it is based on...combat hapikdo!

But, for me? ANYONE that would set forth CDT upon the American public, and claim it is as a self-defense system, in my opinion, can simply never be trusted again. Anyone that would fool my fellow officers with this pinchy bullshit? Cannot be trusted

This locked in his con man status for me, and he would have to do a lot of reputation, rehabilitation to clear that up. Of which, of course in the big picture, what the hell does he care what I think?

You know, he could just be naive. The world of full of no-experience, ain't "seen-the-elephant" people who think their crappy martial arts really work.  Is he one of them? This, I could forgive. Or a con man?

That wasn't too diplomatic, sorry. But, I would welcome Tom to come on the forum anytime, clear all this up for us, and tell me how I am wrong. It is possible I have completely misjudged everything, huh? If you met my second wife? You'd see how big I can screw up. So, please just come aboard Tom and straighten this out.

Hock



 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 09:36:51 AM by Hock »
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Kentbob

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2005, 11:00:38 AM »

You know, I think diplomacy can be overrated.  And so are a lot of diplomats.  I agree with the bit about Black Belt pandering to their advertisers.  I got my brother a subscription for the magazine, and he said that it was just full of advertisements for other peoples systems, which I didn't agree with until I started to really read into it.  I too, have a high gag factor when it comes to these magazines and systems they promote.  But, I get them because they oftentimes have informative articles, like stuff written by you, Larry Hartzell, or the Inosanto clan.  I felt pretty much the same way about CDT-LRT as the both of you.   I first remembered my days in regular hapkido, and then remembered people trying to put my in some sort of pain compliance or lock with me resisting only a little.  I can only imagine the difficulties involving someone who is drunk and enraged, as JIMH mentioned.  However, I too would like Mr. Patire to clear up any of the misunderstandings we may be having.  Alas, I do not believe it to be.


Kent
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Nick Hughes

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2005, 09:56:52 AM »

There's a great line I heard years ago while at a PPCT seminar (if memory serves it's from the Tactical Edge Book).

The implication was that there are three types of people that bouncers/cops/security will deal with...

There are YES people who will comply with everything you tell them

There are NO people who will fight you every step of the way, no matter how big you are or how many there are of you

There are MAYBE people who will become YES people if you're bigger than them and NO people if you are not.

They said that pain compliance works on the YES people.


Then again you can run into some other problems...

An LEO mate of mine told me about some officers who used pressure points on a drunk driver who was resisting.  (specifically the point under the ear/back of the jaw bone).

He, the recipient, complained to the powers that be that he was sore and hurt as a result of their using pressure point tactics on him.

A memo went out immediately informing the officers that the use of that pressure point was now outlawed due to the fact it hurt people. ???

I can only wonder if another memo will be forthcoming outlawing tear gas because it makes people's eyes water. :)
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Wardog

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2005, 10:40:14 AM »

Let's just keep making it easier for the criminal. Tear gas may be next then handcuffs because they chafe.
 So Tom Patire is another on the list of phonies.. I don't know Hock and do not own his stuff but I give more credibilty to him than a lot of others simply because he tells it like it is. I have read reviews from the Martial Arts Expos and everybody just praises everyone else. Nobody will say I went to see so-and-so and his system sucked. Or even mention it's weaknesses if they don't want to slam it. They just say he was great, that was great , it was great. It's all Fan FFFFFin Tastic!!! People do do things differently and that is cool and it doesn't mean that what they do sucks and that is fine. But some people are untrained hucksters and need to be exposed. Especially if they are raping people with the cost on top of having nothing to offer.
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Chuck Burnett

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2005, 01:02:25 PM »

"the CDT squeezies?"

I think I just wet myself. LMAO

Chuck
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ghostrider

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2005, 12:17:57 PM »

Gentleman you know the name of the game...its make the big bucks! Pass off whatever you can to an unsuspecting public and tell the masses that it is good. Remember that in the world there are two kinds of people....sheep and sheep dogs. It is too easy for the public to accept whatever is given to them in the name of easy and conveniece. Without either wanting to or out of ignorance they will believe what is handed to them since someone whom they don't know is doing this from a full colored ad and telling them that this is the way it is. Definitely shows that 99% of the people out there are really not in the know or just don't want to find out for themselves.
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Ryan

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2005, 09:46:07 PM »

Three kinds:  sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves. ;)
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tlouis

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2005, 09:15:17 AM »

I approach Black Belt mag like most fitness magazines. Maybe 1 in 3 articles is worthwhile. Hock is right on. Years ago it became obvious that the bulk of the articles were just promotional ads. These days I'll thumb through Black Belt at the newstand and if some articles appeal to me, I'll buy it. Most of the times I pass. I'm afraid my Black Belt days are over.
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Hock

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2005, 09:47:42 AM »

These days I'll thumb through Black Belt at the newstand and if some articles appeal to me, I'll buy it. Most of the times I pass. I'm afraid my Black Belt days are over.

The pressures on paper magazines are tremendous.
The ad prices ridiculous.
The paper and ink? Preposterious.
Postage? Rising.
Distribution systems? Suck and barely surviving.
The pressure to survive? Very serious.

This yellow journalism causes a lack of intrest, add that to getting a cup of coffee and reading them like a library in the ever-growing bookstores...

AND the ease of internet magazines...

It is dark days...

Hock

ghostrider

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2005, 08:55:39 PM »

Has anyone seen the latest in Black belt magazine on CDT? Seems like its been set up for the law enforcement folks. When I saw the article the pictures had strikes and such as they applied those famous grabs and pinches. I thought that they didn't use strikes at all? My impression was they didn't strike at all due to the lawsuit factor. In my mind I thought the creator of this didn't believe in hitting. Funny thing is, I always felt that hitting a guy was always the determining factor in escaping an attack! Along with the other things like locks, wraps, etc. When you look at all of it there is really nothing new.
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kamagong

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2005, 06:50:35 AM »

Hey you guys know how all this stuff goes, in marketing, you are selling the sizzle and not the bacon.  You can take just about anything and if you package it up and make it look good enough, people will buy it.  Like I heard Hock say once at a seminar, you start to see the same stuff keep comming around repackaged if you are in this business long enough (I'm paraphrasing of course).  Sooner or later, we all will see a system come along again like CDT that will appeal to all the soccer moms who live in gated communities, and who's SUV's are like a rolling womb that keeps them seperated from the real world.  These are the same people who say, "Well, couldn't you ask the bad guy to just stop attacking people?  If you just try to talk to someone you can make a difference, they are just misunderstood and impoverished, come from a bad background, and it's society's fault they are bad, they are only assaulting people because they are poor, etc."  These are the people who make systems like CDT popular and want police officers to be trained in such.

I especially think that the, "If you don't sign on with me then I will witness for the prosecution against you" is particularly despicable. 

Stepping off the soap box now.  ;)
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Hock

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Re: CDT-LRT
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2005, 08:52:42 AM »

Since CDT has effectively bombed on the market-place (that translates to "run out of suckers") Tom's new LRT (combat hapkido in polo shirts) has replaced it and it does punch and so forth. No more squeezy-hands-system.

Isn't that Black Belt article with punching potos, talking about the raise of LRT- Last Resort Tactics? With the suggestion that "when CDT fails."

Hock
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 09:57:21 PM by Hock »
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