Hock's Blog

Hock's Seminars

Hock's Shopsite

Hock's Web Page



Lauric Enterprises, Inc.
1314 W. McDermott
Ste 106-811
Allen, TX 75013
972-390-1777

New Links

Knife Book

Impact Weapons Book

First Contact

Critical Contact

Footwork Book

Combat Kicks DVD

Facebook-CQC

Facebook-Hock

Hock's Author Pg

 

 

 


W. Hock Hochheim's

           Combat Centric

Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • May 21, 2012, 08:11:01 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8

Author Topic: Israeli Martial Issues  (Read 11676 times)

Street Survival Systems

  • Level 1
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Are You Ready
Israeli Martial Issues
« on: October 20, 2005, 04:02:03 PM »

I wanted to get everybodys views on The Haganah system started by Mike Lee Kanarek

Tim
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 11:35:21 AM by HockHoch@aol.com »
Logged

JimH

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 07:54:41 PM »

I like Mike's Haganah system(compared to most other Krav stuff),he teaches going into the attack and taking the fight to the opponent,not distancing and exchanging as other Krav systems do.

He teaches ending the altercation quickly,which,to me,is the most important aspect.

I could see alot of his material being used by the military and be usable on a battlefield,some of his stuff is fine motor skill that may not be there when needed,but he leaves you with many options which is  good.

I do not like his forced sales requirement as part of an instructors job and right to stay in the system as an affiliate instructor,but that is not what you asked so we will leave it at that.
Logged

Wardog

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 09:04:30 PM »

I am not a huge fan. I think it is overhyped and agree with Hock that Israeli is the new fad. Like everything else it will burn out.
 I will ask about the forced sales requirement etc that Jim mentioned. I am always curious how guys are doing business on top of the martial arts they are selling.
 Hock, Mike may be a nice guy but man has he oversold FIGHT from what I can see. Another size and strength don't matter, learn it in a few months, neutralize any attacker dvd set. Any thoughts on the actual FIGHT system Hock or would that be crossing a professional courtesy line?
Logged

thaiking

  • Level 1
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2005, 09:31:10 PM »

I accually met Mike before the whole Haganah craze started he was teahing in a small facility in weston, fl it was a great gym with hard-core traning he has Secret service agents, FBI agents and swat everyday at he gym, he did not advertise nothing, but my problem now is he might be bigger than Krav maga and he is slowly loosing his edge and certifying alot of people that dont deserve certifying. I dont blame the guy for making a buck, but he turned to a busness man a hard-core one to be exact.
Logged

thaiking

  • Level 1
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2005, 10:46:21 PM »

See I beleive in certyfing, but only to people that are qualified to teach. Not for any moe,larry and curly who can pay a fee go to a seminar and wow there instructors with a few months of experiance I think it is a joke in my opinion. It's my view i could be wrong
Logged

misshinryu

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 436
  • Bone, Mass, Density
Krav Maga wants to copywrite name
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2005, 06:48:54 AM »


 
NEWS BLAST
Protecting Your Rights
Welcome to another Instructor's NEWS BLAST! Visit our Martial Arts Instructor's Center on USADOJO.COM where you will find material for martial arts instructors. We also have a dedicated Martial Arts Instructor's Center in the USADOJO Forum for those who wish to discuss the topics presented in the Instructor's NEWS BLAST. You can read past News Blasts on USADOJO.COM.

 
 
 
 
UNBELIEVEABLE and it could happen to you . . . read on! 
 
. . a corporation under the laws of California, with its principal place of business at 11500 West Olympic Blvd., Suite 400, Los Angeles, California, (“Krav Maga Worldwide”) is the owner of all rights in Canada to the trade mark KRAV MAGA, including the Canadian registration for KRAV MAGA covering martial arts training services, Registration No. TMA 462,000.

. . . immediately cease and never again resume using the trade mark KRAV MAGA, or any other mark that is confusingly similar to KRAV MAGA, in relation to services or wares relating generally to the field of martial arts or fitness training . . .

. . . immediately cease and never again resume selling, advertising, distributing and offering for sale martial arts and fitness training services, as well as training videos and t-shirts, in association with the trade mark KRAV MAGA . . . deliver-up or destroy under oath all of the aforementioned videos and t-shirts .
 
 
Instructors, Protect Your Right To Use The Martial Art Term Krav Maga

The Trade-marks Branch of the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO) gave an attorney in Beverly Hills, California the trademark rights to the term krav maga. This Beverly Hills, California attorney, a civilian krav maga instructor, who never served in the Israeli army or with the Israeli police or as part of Israeli counter intelligence, but who is now suing those Israeli military men who actually helped developed krav maga and other qualified martial arts instructors who use the term krav maga for their course of instruction. (Would you want to be sued for using the term tae kwon do or the terms karate, jujitsu or aikido?) They are attempting to trademark krav maga in the United States and around the world even after the state of Israel itself determined that the term is generic and can't be trademarked. Help USADOJO.COM send a strong message to the United States Patent and Trademark Office, Trade-marks Branch of the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO) in Canada and to Attorney Darren Levin that we, as martial artists, will not support the ownership of the term krav maga by an individual or organization and we will not support the injustice that is being perpetrating on the martial arts community. USADOJO.COM has created a petition so our voices will be heard. Please declare your support with USADOJO.COM by signing the Petition to Protect every qualified instructor's right to use the term krav maga in Canada, the United States and around the world.

Petition to rescind the trademark of the term krav maga and to prevent any further trademarks and to allow the free use of the term of krav maga by all who properly use the term as qualified instructors of the martial art of krav maga.

United States Patent and Trademark Office
Trade-marks Branch of the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO)
Attorney Darren Levin - Beverly Hills, California

We believe the right to the term krav maga belongs to its qualified martial arts instructors all over the world, not to one person who is using the term for financial gain. The right to this term is fundamental for the instructors of the martial art of krav maga and should be a right that is protected just as the right to use the terms karate, tae kwon do or jujitsu are protected. We as martial artists will not sit idly by and watch this right be taken away.

This same action to trademark the term krav maga with the United States Patent and Trademark Office is now pending. We wish to see this trademark overturned in Canada and wish to voice our disapproval of a a US Trademark for krav maga.

We stand with USADOJO.COM in supporting the free use of the term krav maga in Canada and everywhere in the world for qualified instructors of the martial art of krav maga.

We ask that you swiftly review the krav maga trademark and rescind the trademark for the term krav maga. We ask that all suits be stopped as this term is a public term to be used by all martial arts instructors who are qualified to teach the martial art of krav maga.

The time to act is NOW! Sign the USADOJO.COM Petition!


 
 
Visit the USADOJO.COM Forum and let your voice be heard!
 
Premium Listing Helps School Membership
"I am writing to tell you how much I appreciate USADOJO.COM's school listing service which helps small businesses like mine attract new students. Your site is great and I was eager to be added. We have attracted even more students since our dojo upgraded to a Premium Listing on USADOJO.COM."

Thank You & God Bless,
Master Luke W. Fraser


USADOJO.COM has a whole new look and has automated the process of listing your martial art school, event, or organization. This process allows martial artists to add and edit their own listings. Visitors can then browse or search for martial arts schools, events, and organizations. To have your martial arts school, event, or organization listed, you must first become a USADOJO.COM Business Member. Don't worry, it's easy and free.
 
 
Newsletter Information

Sign-up to receive this Instructor's News Blast (Subscribe)

Copyrighted © 2005 by USADOJO.COM. All Rights Reserved.

Sponsored by USADOJO.COM and USADOJO Web Hosting

 

Go to this link to unsubscribe or update your preferences at this link
 







Logged
Mike Steele
Mercy Triumphs Over Judgement

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 7930
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2005, 07:04:03 AM »

immediately cease and never again resume using the trade mark KRAV MAGA, or any other mark that is confusingly similar to KRAV MAGA, in relation to services or wares relating generally to the field of martial arts or fitness training

AHA!
That is how to stop all the competition, which is taking them down the drain.
I love the "confusingly similiar" term. That could shut off almost all the folks out there right now...

Interesting,
Hock
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 10:52:41 AM by Hock »
Logged

Milldog1776

  • Guest
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2005, 07:11:59 AM »

immediately cease and never again resume using the trade mark KRAV MAGA, or any other mark that is confusingly similar to KRAV MAGA, in relation to services or wares relating generally to the field of martial arts or fitness training

AHA!
That is how to stop all the competition, which is taking them down the drain.
I love the "confusingly similar" term. That could shut off almost all the folks out there right now...

Interesting,
Hock

I gues I'll have to stop teaching my new MAV KRAGA system. Damn lawyers!
Logged

JimH

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2005, 07:17:49 AM »

Krav Maga is a hype to sell Israeli arts,we all know that.

The Israelis have sold themselves as experts in battle ,in security,in Body guard work,in airline security,they are cashing in all around,and aside from the airline industry I do not think they are the best in the other fields,but the consumer does not know ,they know the hype.

Haganah is a different blend of KM than the TMA version which was the most popular,but how many recreations are people willing to pay for,as said it is not new materials,but a different version of what KM has been.

Haganah is a a variety of KM which is newer to most people,and it is built around Money making period.

The following is what Mike told me about 18 months ago:

To be an instructor You are supposed to have an existing school with a minimum number of students.(future purchasers of the DVD sets you must sell)

You get invited to the Instructor course which is 50 hours of training with Mike.
(this is the complete course for full certification)

You then go home with your certificate,your instructors package and I believe it was 40 sets of the DVDs to sell to your students( to recoup some of the money spent for the training)

To stay an active member and affiliate you are required to purchase and sell ,I believe it was, 4 DVD sets per month.

The course is taught in blocks,1 Block per month,4 Blocks(4 Months) makes a complete course.
You are to remind the students that 1 month per block does not make them proficient,it is just an understanding,to make the system work requires them to dedicate many more Blocks,(several years)

The course is sold to students in a complete 4 month package,they pay for the 4 months,either up front or payments,and then they may leave or sign on to redo the 4 Block series.

Each participant in a series of blocks is required to buy the DVD set.

You as an instructor may not make Instructors,you can have associates under you in your school but only Mike makes instructors and each needs their own school of so many students and then go through the course and sell the DVDs.

Being an Instructor and selling the DVDs gets you listed in the magazines and on the web site.

As I said,as far as what is sold as KM,Mike's Haganah is a better choice as it is more doable and eliminates the exchange,(sparring mode) some KM have gotten into,I also like Moni Aiziks Combat survival KM version as it is more in line with the basic Jujitsu type moves that were used in WWII combatives as taught by Fairbairn,Sykes,Applegate and others(US Navy and Marines,for Trembula),(Moni's has alot of fine motor skills that may not be doable under pressure,depending on the person,but there is enough material to find a doable solution as in Mike's Haganah )

Newer,different versions of KM,that is the flavor of the Day.
(The Israeli courts,years ago,said all Martial Arts in israel are allowed to be called krav Maga,so I expect to see many more versions)

It is all about quickly creating schools and instructors and selling the videos/DVDs,saturate the market and spread the hype,create a Buzz and a need, and SELL,SELL,SELL.
Logged

Milldog1776

  • Guest
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2005, 07:25:00 AM »

Quote
You then go home with your certificate,your instructors package and I believe it was 40 sets of the DVDs to sell to your students( to recoup some of the money spent for the training)

To stay an active member and affiliate you are required to purchase and sell ,I believe it was, 4 DVD sets per month.

It is all about quickly creating schools and instructors and selling the videos/DVDs,saturate the market and spread the hype,create a Buzz and a need, and SELL,SELL,SELL.

It really starts to look like Multi-Level Marketing a little, doesn't it?

Well, we would never do that in my BRAND NEW RAM GRAVA system. Go to my website and send me money.  ;D
Logged

Wardog

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2005, 07:45:12 AM »

I think the worst part is not the hype it is the ones who believe the hype. There are guys all over his site with supposed reams of belts and qualifications who gush that Haganah is the best ever! I guess it is to be expected but I truly wonder how experienced you can be if you think Haganah is the be all and end all of self-defense.
Logged

Wardog

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2005, 07:57:03 AM »

In regards to the Krav copyright, is this crap ever going to end. This is just another selfish bastard looking to make life miserable for people and be a dick. I can't believe people try to copyright a term they sure as hell didn't originate in the first place. Some people are just genetically pre-disposed to be scumbags.
Logged

Wardog

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2005, 08:50:05 AM »

I am just re-reading things and coming up with new questions. Jim, so what your saying is that on top of paying for the course you are required to buy the dvd's? You can't just take the classes alone? Or is that if you want to be an instructor only? So you are looking at a minimum $149 buy in if you want to step on the mat in a FIGHT associated club?
  Also, one can not qualify as an instructor unless they have a school with a built in customer base to buy the dvd's etc? Regardless of ability?
  My issue with the dvd's is that they are hyped as essentially being a learning tool than can make you competent without attending classes. I am sure the argument would be that taking the classes is better, which would be true, but that still insinuates one could become proficient from the dvd's alone. In a short time no less. A prospect I have always found highly unlikely.
   Hock, in regards to Mike certifying people as instructors it is my understanding that he does not certify every person who pays, he has told people sorry but no you aren't good enough.  I don't know if that is fact but that is what I have heard.
  He does seem to add an awfully large amount of certified clubs a month according to his ad in Black Belt(almost all are the McDojos his forum following make fun of all the time). Although I think this month may have been without an addition. I understand he is making a movie though so maybe it was more a time thing than a lack of desire to. On the movie topic I really hope this doesn't cause a Haganah freak out like it did Aikido with Segal.
  Great thread. Top notch forum Hock!
Logged

thaiking

  • Level 1
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: Krav Maga wants to copywrite name
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2005, 10:59:12 AM »


 
NEWS BLAST
Protecting Your Rights
Welcome to another Instructor's NEWS BLAST! Visit our Martial Arts Instructor's Center on USADOJO.COM where you will find material for martial arts instructors. We also have a dedicated Martial Arts Instructor's Center in the USADOJO Forum for those who wish to discuss the topics presented in the Instructor's NEWS BLAST. You can read past News Blasts on USADOJO.COM.

 I beleive this comes from Avi Nardia, e exchanged a few e-mals before as he explained and showed me proof how the KMA tried to trademark KM in The USA the owner of the KMA failed at trademarketing it here in the US, but accomplished his goal in Canada and I hear he is trying to do so in Europe an so forth.

Mr. Nardia also provided proof to his claims so I can not say what he said is false sent me court documens and evrything.

The whole Israeli polotics, thing or whatever you want to call it gives me a headache, what Happened to a good old-fashon fight to settle your problems?
 
 
 
UNBELIEVEABLE and it could happen to you . . . read on! 
 
. . a corporation under the laws of California, with its principal place of business at 11500 West Olympic Blvd., Suite 400, Los Angeles, California, (“Krav Maga Worldwide”) is the owner of all rights in Canada to the trade mark KRAV MAGA, including the Canadian registration for KRAV MAGA covering martial arts training services, Registration No. TMA 462,000.

. . . immediately cease and never again resume using the trade mark KRAV MAGA, or any other mark that is confusingly similar to KRAV MAGA, in relation to services or wares relating generally to the field of martial arts or fitness training . . .

. . . immediately cease and never again resume selling, advertising, distributing and offering for sale martial arts and fitness training services, as well as training videos and t-shirts, in association with the trade mark KRAV MAGA . . . deliver-up or destroy under oath all of the aforementioned videos and t-shirts .
 
 
Instructors, Protect Your Right To Use The Martial Art Term Krav Maga

The Trade-marks Branch of the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO) gave an attorney in Beverly Hills, California the trademark rights to the term krav maga. This Beverly Hills, California attorney, a civilian krav maga instructor, who never served in the Israeli army or with the Israeli police or as part of Israeli counter intelligence, but who is now suing those Israeli military men who actually helped developed krav maga and other qualified martial arts instructors who use the term krav maga for their course of instruction. (Would you want to be sued for using the term tae kwon do or the terms karate, jujitsu or aikido?) They are attempting to trademark krav maga in the United States and around the world even after the state of Israel itself determined that the term is generic and can't be trademarked. Help USADOJO.COM send a strong message to the United States Patent and Trademark Office, Trade-marks Branch of the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO) in Canada and to Attorney Darren Levin that we, as martial artists, will not support the ownership of the term krav maga by an individual or organization and we will not support the injustice that is being perpetrating on the martial arts community. USADOJO.COM has created a petition so our voices will be heard. Please declare your support with USADOJO.COM by signing the Petition to Protect every qualified instructor's right to use the term krav maga in Canada, the United States and around the world.

Petition to rescind the trademark of the term krav maga and to prevent any further trademarks and to allow the free use of the term of krav maga by all who properly use the term as qualified instructors of the martial art of krav maga.

United States Patent and Trademark Office
Trade-marks Branch of the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO)
Attorney Darren Levin - Beverly Hills, California

We believe the right to the term krav maga belongs to its qualified martial arts instructors all over the world, not to one person who is using the term for financial gain. The right to this term is fundamental for the instructors of the martial art of krav maga and should be a right that is protected just as the right to use the terms karate, tae kwon do or jujitsu are protected. We as martial artists will not sit idly by and watch this right be taken away.

This same action to trademark the term krav maga with the United States Patent and Trademark Office is now pending. We wish to see this trademark overturned in Canada and wish to voice our disapproval of a a US Trademark for krav maga.

We stand with USADOJO.COM in supporting the free use of the term krav maga in Canada and everywhere in the world for qualified instructors of the martial art of krav maga.

We ask that you swiftly review the krav maga trademark and rescind the trademark for the term krav maga. We ask that all suits be stopped as this term is a public term to be used by all martial arts instructors who are qualified to teach the martial art of krav maga.

The time to act is NOW! Sign the USADOJO.COM Petition!


 
 
Visit the USADOJO.COM Forum and let your voice be heard!
 
Premium Listing Helps School Membership
"I am writing to tell you how much I appreciate USADOJO.COM's school listing service which helps small businesses like mine attract new students. Your site is great and I was eager to be added. We have attracted even more students since our dojo upgraded to a Premium Listing on USADOJO.COM."

Thank You & God Bless,
Master Luke W. Fraser


USADOJO.COM has a whole new look and has automated the process of listing your martial art school, event, or organization. This process allows martial artists to add and edit their own listings. Visitors can then browse or search for martial arts schools, events, and organizations. To have your martial arts school, event, or organization listed, you must first become a USADOJO.COM Business Member. Don't worry, it's easy and free.
 
 
Newsletter Information

Sign-up to receive this Instructor's News Blast (Subscribe)

Copyrighted © 2005 by USADOJO.COM. All Rights Reserved.

Sponsored by USADOJO.COM and USADOJO Web Hosting

 

Go to this link to unsubscribe or update your preferences at this link
 

« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 11:05:25 AM by thaiking »
Logged

Wardog

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: The Haganah system
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2005, 11:07:49 AM »

OK,,,this copyright article is posted on page 1 of this thread. Why did we put it up again?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8
 

Download