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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Author Topic: What Carbine do you recommend???  (Read 20522 times)

Nick Hughes

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2006, 08:57:14 AM »

Lakers,

Hence my comment about looters or rioters.  Every description I heard of the guys in NO (and I had a bunch of mates down there doing security work at the time) was that they were looters...those you CAN shoot ;D
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threegun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2006, 06:18:38 AM »

Rioters can be shot if they are putting your life in danger of death of great bodily harm. This law is universal. It applies to anyone. You just can't go around burning houses, throwing deadly projectiles, shooting people, ect. without the expectation of being shot. The carbine that I recommend for this job is the AR-15 hands down LOL.
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Kentbob

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2006, 01:51:13 PM »

The carbine that I recommend for this job is the AR-15 hands down LOL.

  Except, no dude.  ;D


Kent
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threegun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2006, 03:10:22 PM »

Kent, Did I say AR-15???? I meant Socom M1A LOL  :-*
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TwoGun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #94 on: April 14, 2006, 11:29:50 AM »

How about a comprimise?  The ArmaLite AR10 A2?  It's a CAR-15 in .308 complete with adjustable stock and can be had in black or OD green.  Very nice units.  They cost a bit less than the SOCOM rifle does with an MSRP of $1506.  I'm sure they can be had for less if you shop around.
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arnold

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #95 on: April 14, 2006, 03:59:32 PM »

Professor,   OOOHHHHH I did loike your choice.
One thing to consider though, people who are undergunned move up in bullet size, not down. So many more round options are available in 308 than I ave seen in 223. I can only "load up" the 223 so far, but I can download the 308 to 223 stats, and upload it many differnt ways.
And Professor, the 1911 is now available in 50 cal! Man oh man.
Time to iron my bunny suit
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TwoGun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #96 on: April 14, 2006, 04:36:04 PM »

The afore mentioned ArmaLite AR10A2C.



Not all the bells and whilstles that the Professor's gun had, but a very nice choice never the less.

However if it were me, going for my first military style semi-auto, I'd go with a a CAR15.  Lighter, easier to shoot, less expensive to purchase, less expensive ammo.  That SHOULD equal lots of practice.  And practice with a purpose.  That is far more important that what caliber you are using.

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Kentbob

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #97 on: April 14, 2006, 05:43:56 PM »

The afore mentioned ArmaLite AR10A2C.



Not all the bells and whilstles that the Professor's gun had, but a very nice choice never the less.

However if it were me, going for my first military style semi-auto, I'd go with a a CAR15.  Lighter, easier to shoot, less expensive to purchase, less expensive ammo.  That SHOULD equal lots of practice.  And practice with a purpose.  That is far more important that what caliber you are using.


Daddy likes.

Kent
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Professor

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #98 on: April 14, 2006, 08:27:28 PM »


Not all the bells and whilstles that the Professor's gun had, but a very nice choice never the less.


They don't have to wear jewelry.   Here's one that naked:









. . . . now ain't that sexy.


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cgonzales

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #99 on: April 14, 2006, 09:28:52 PM »

enough talk I,m going shooting.
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Professor

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #100 on: April 15, 2006, 06:40:46 AM »

enough talk I,m going shooting.


Gotcha excited.......didn't I.....big boy....
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

arnold

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #101 on: April 16, 2006, 08:27:22 PM »

I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning, afternoon, evening. Nothing like it.
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you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

Kentbob

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #102 on: April 16, 2006, 10:39:24 PM »

I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning, afternoon, evening. Nothing like it.

Smells like...Anti-Jihad!


Kent
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kayakpirate

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2006, 10:39:15 AM »

In an urban/suburban zone,where range does not really extend beyond 75-100 yds.A 7.62 nato would be a bit risky.I know that manstopping is an issue,but really, shooting at marauding rioters with an M1A/FAL,whatever,with your next door neighbor as a backstop, might have its share of problems.
Ever fire off a 7.62 in a house? I wouldnt grab the M1A for inside the house firefights.Might end up setting the place on fire with the muzzle blast.
An AR in 5.56 is more than enough for urban/suburban defense.If I were in a  rural area the 7.62 makes more sense.
You'll also have faster shot to shot recovery time as a result of a lighter recoiling weapon.This will probably be a fast engagment, multiple bad guy nightmare You'll have to move and fire fast(accurately)while being maybe fired upon as well, to avoid them getting in on you.This will be a situation where you will have no back-up, no air cover and no resupply.What looks cool at the range is not always best for reality.My dad could nail apples thrown in the air with his old .30 carbine.Its  man alones ability with the weapon,not the weapons ability alone.Wild Bill Hickcock killed a lot of people with the .36 Navy. A black powder pistol with almost the same ballistic signature as a .380 acp.
I'm not trying to countradict anybody,I just think that tactics and logic work better than
relying on hardware alone.Shoot whatever you want.Just remember to thank the founding fathers for guaranteeing your right to do it.
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TwoGun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2006, 11:19:32 AM »

Kayapirate, I certainly agree.  I stated earlier that I felt that for most people, especially new shooters, the .223 was the better choice.  All the reason's you mentioned are quite valid.  I state again that I'd rather see lots of practice with the cheaper ammo you can get than the additional stopping power of the heavier caliber.

Even in .223 there will most likely be complete penetration unless you use some type of varmit bullet or hit heavy bone.  I think in urban environments that shotgun is a better choice if you want a long for defensive purposes.  But the question was posed conderning a carbine.

Unless the BG's are engaging you from a distance, you probably shouldn't be engaging them if you can help it.  It will make you look like the bad guy if you taking shots at 100 yards and the are armed only with handguns.  You know how lawyers are. :(

But I understand that a guy might want some additional range in a weapon.  It might be that's the only thing he's got. 
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threegun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2006, 02:27:52 PM »

Kayakpirate seems to have some logical thinking going on here

Quote
You'll also have faster shot to shot recovery time as a result of a lighter recoiling weapon.This will probably be a fast engagment, multiple bad guy nightmare You'll have to move and fire fast(accurately)while being maybe fired upon as well, to avoid them getting in on you.This will be a situation where you will have no back-up, no air cover and no resupply.

The 223 is more than enough and much faster. You can carry twice the ammo in a lighter platform.
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kayakpirate

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #106 on: May 15, 2006, 03:20:40 PM »

Hey cool.Thanks guys,glad I'm making sense.Sometimes it feels like I'm barking at the moon.
Whatever tactics and tools we have confidence in...lets all hope we dont ever have to use them.
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Professor

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #107 on: May 15, 2006, 05:30:21 PM »

Kayakpirate seems to have some logical thinking going on here

Quote
You'll also have faster shot to shot recovery time as a result of a lighter recoiling weapon.This will probably be a fast engagment, multiple bad guy nightmare You'll have to move and fire fast(accurately)while being maybe fired upon as well, to avoid them getting in on you.This will be a situation where you will have no back-up, no air cover and no resupply.

The 223 is more than enough and much faster. You can carry twice the ammo in a lighter platform.


Both are great guns......
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Kentbob

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #108 on: May 15, 2006, 10:11:49 PM »

Why won't this horse just die already?

 ;D

Kent


M1A rules!

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threegun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #109 on: May 23, 2006, 04:38:49 AM »

If he's a smart horse he'll die with an AR-15 at his side. With it he is capable of eliminating more threats with the same weight. He can shoot faster with the same accuracy allowing him to engage more enemy horse faster. Only an old horse with a hard head would hang on to old school weapon systems that just cannot compete in the new arena despite being an excellent weapon lol. You are handicapped if things get real ugly with the M-14.
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kayakpirate

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #110 on: May 23, 2006, 02:20:35 PM »

Look at it this way.Custer went down to a bunch of guys that not only outnumbered him but also had lighter recoil, faster reloading and firing wepons.
No doubt that the 45-70 trapdoor that Custers troops carried was more powerful and had better range and penetration.But the trapdoor couldn't keep up with the demand.
I love the M1A,I shot my  H&K 91 till the paint wore off.But after 50-100 rounds of surplus 7.62 through it, my old mini-14 felt more like a 10-22.Faster in my hands,faster on follow up shots,and not nearly as hard on the body to shoot.I know it's  not macho to admit this,But putting a 100 rounds of 7.62 through that  H&K was like going a few rounds in a heavier weight class division.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2006, 02:22:36 PM by kayakpirate »
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threegun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #111 on: May 23, 2006, 03:16:02 PM »

Kayakpirate, Accept under the most extreme situations the 223 is going to be more than adequate for self defense. With this in mind it makes me question why folks would handicap themselves in the speed of engagement and firepower availability departments. Never mind a lighter weapon system with better ergonomics. Some folks have fooled themselves into believing that the 223 is not an adequate man stopper. While not as potent as the 308 it is still effective. I know this if a riot situation broke out and multiple attackers came to get me, they would have less time to return fire if I engaged them with an AR vs an m-14. Given the fact that I am a civilian the chances are slimmer that penetration will be a factor. Heck the hyper penetrating 7.62 might even be a problem for most of us civilians.
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kayakpirate

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #112 on: May 23, 2006, 06:17:57 PM »

This nonsense has been goimg on forever now.When the .30U.S..smokeless(the 30-06 spring.)
was fazed in,the old school crowd ( read that the old trapdoor 45-70 fans) went nuts.
It was suppose to be the end of the world.Never mind the incredible success of the Spanish and Boer Mauser's.
Very few things have a long life that dont succeed tacticlly.
The 5.56 has worked and not worked, so has everything else short of the .50 cal.
But the fact remains that people in the droves are dropping to 5.56 everyday.
That it is, and has been, the weapon of choice for most of the free world for years now is often overlooked by the buy a bigger gun crowd.
I think that we all are just trying to come up with a valid reason to buy a new gun.
While theres nothing wrong with that...just dont get "snake fascinated" with the smoke and mirrors.I have a few different rifles and handguns.But an AR-15 and the Glock 17 (with +P jhp's) is the two I keep ready.
The debate crowd mostly fuels the" need a reason to buy a new gun crowd",as for me ,I'm honest...I just buy the damn things and shoot the hell outta them.
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threegun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #113 on: May 24, 2006, 04:15:52 AM »

I often succumb to the "urge to buy another gun" however I use a personal criteria for buying this new gun. It either has to be a toy and only used for plinking or it has to make me better able to eliminate potential threats. Now that I own the AR-15 system I haven't been able to find something that makes me better. My Glock pistols have pretty much ended the defensive pistol search. My Remington 1100 has ended my shotgun search. In this regard only another of the above listed weapon systems can even be considered for self protection.

To those who argue for the larger caliber.............why? If you are a civilian that is....why? We aren't required, as civilians, to advance taking ground. We aren't in need of barrier penetration for those enemy hold up behind cover in the land that we must take. Likewise wounded bad guys which might continue to fight if we advanced to claim the area, are less a threat in civilian situations. So you basically have a situation where the only advantages of the 7.62 are statistically less likely to be needed. You are sacrificing ammunition capacity. I can carry almost twice the ammo. You are sacrificing speed. I can engage close to twice the enemy in the same time. Both of which are far more important in a civilian survival situation. Lets not forget that the 55 grain 223 or 5.56mm is a great man stopper. Only when the 60 plus grain projectiles are fired from 16inch or less barrels does the stopping power go down. So just how dead does someone have to be? My 55 grain 223 makes the bad guy dead now and your 308 makes them dead RIGHT now.....dead is dead.
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Professor

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #114 on: May 24, 2006, 06:12:16 AM »





Let this one rest in peace..........


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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

kayakpirate

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #115 on: May 24, 2006, 07:18:44 AM »

Aww jezz Prof.We was only funn'in.Having ourselves one of them there dialogs.
If you think this is bad, you haven't heard women talk about shoes.
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threegun

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #116 on: May 24, 2006, 01:51:46 PM »

Barbaro died????????????
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Professor

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Re: What Carbine do you recommend???
« Reply #117 on: May 24, 2006, 03:04:59 PM »

Page 40.....here they come......


Keep on talkin' old women.   ;)
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC
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