Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[tlouis]

statistics on rape in Chi- 2005. 1200 reported- around 100 involved weapons, just a small percentage. Any thoughts?

[Bri Thai]

How can this be?  I thought the threat of a victim potentially carrying a gun would stop violent crime like this?

Sorry, that's just for threegun.

In my experience a great many rapes are done by a person who already knows the victim.  An ex (or current) partner, who has dominated and abused the woman many times before she reports it.  Also there are the cases were a woman meets a man for the first time, and then ends up in a vulnerable position through drink/drugs etc., sometimes after he has given it to her without her knowledge.

The stereotypical masked stranger wating in a dark alley to pounce is not as common as people would think, at least in the UK.  And also, it has to be said that a percentage of reports of Rape are false, yet they still get recorded as a crime (again, at least in the UK).

The ones involving weapons are most likely to be from the percentage where they are starnger rapes, so that's may be why it is a low number.

[tlouis]

Thats pretty much how i looked at it too. Most rapes are not stranger rapes, so a weapon , most likely would not be used in those cases.

[wisdom]

 I wonder how the statistics relate to a rape victim that has been murdered? Does the weapon stat, play a role then?

Is that covered under a more specific category?

rape/homocide? or iis that covered carte blanche under homocide?

[tlouis]

wisdom- I am going to try to get a more detailed breakdown of those stats.

[jmech]

Yes, a more detailed breakdown would be helpful.  In many cases where someone summarizes statistics, the terms "sexual assault" and "rape" seem to get interchanged.  However, not all sexual assaults are what most people would define "rape" as.  sexual assaults run the spectrum from someone quickly groping another in a subway car to a knife weilding full "rape".  if one lumps all sexual assaults into one category, then yes, the number of incidents where a weapon or force is used will seem to be a lower percentage. but if you categorize the incidents by degrees (i.e. first degree sex assault, fourth degree sex assault, etc.) then I think you would see a higher percentage of force used in those incidents that the typical person thinks of when they hear the term "rape".

Joe

[Nick Hughes]

Bri,

Just to leap to my American bretheren's defense...most big cities here do not permit the carriage of weapons by the citizens...in NY for example if you're caught with one it's automatically a twelve month sentence (and they'll tack on whatever else you were done for at the time).

The big cities are (no coincidence) usually fairly violent as a result.

In my home town we introduced concealed carry (the true deterent) here about five years ago and noticed a 68 percent reduction in crime against people (crime against property interestingly enough went up but hey, we can replace property)

And one young lady in this town was very glad of her gun (a story by the way our liberal media chose not to run) but I can get the police report for anyone who wants it.

She (the victim) had been raped before while living in a city that did not permit weapons.  Swearing it would never happen again she moved here.  We had a serial rapist targeting young Uni students (guns not allowed on campus and students usually of a liberal bent so little chance of them being armed) at the time and this girl was targeted again.

She awoke to find the rapist standing over her in her room (3rd floor) with a knife.  Her dog was going ballistic out in the hall (he'd climbed over the balcony) and he was threatening her with killing it if it didn't shut up.  She told him if she turned the bedside lamp on he'd be quiet so the guy told her go ahead.  That's where her newly acquired pistol was.  She shot him in the chest twice.  According to the report he said "damn, you shot me you bitch" and turned to run at which point she got him once more in the back.  He died on the scene.  Chalk one up for the good guys.

Not reporting this incident to start the whole gun/no gun thing which truly has been done to death...but a lot of people overseas think that EVERYBODY in America is armed (or can carry if they wish) and it is not the case.  Very much a county by county, city by city, state by state decision.

The following was from a local newspaper article at the time of the decision to introduce concealed carry here...

When the North Carolina legislature debated the concealed carry issue in 1995, State Sen. Leslie Winner of Mecklenberg, an extremist anti-self-defense politician, predicted that "as more people carry guns, more will use them." However, statistics have proved that she and other critics of her ilk are wrong, according to the CHARLOTTE NEWS AND OBSERVER. Statistics throughout the state show decreasing crime rates and safe handling by permit holders.
Charlotte-Mecklenberg Police Chief Dennis Nowicki said "the concerns that I had - with more guns on the street, folks may be more apt to square off against one another with weapons - we haven’t experienced that." The most significant drop in crime rates, according to the newspaper, have occurred in the counties with the heaviest per capita concentration of permit holders in the Carolinas. That’s in the suburbs around Charlotte, where in some places the rate is as high as 11 per 1,000 adults.

[Bri Thai]

The problem with both sides of such an emotive argument is this - both sides see the "evidence" they want to see, and deny the rest.

People really should try to look at issues dispassionately.  It's just so hard to do.

[tlouis]

one thing is pretty obvious though- giving citizens the right to carry does not result in the wild west show liberal thinkers always predict. Whether or not it actually deters crime is another story. one of the real problems is reporting crime. If i deter a felon wiht a firearm, and I don't discharge the weapon- chances are i am not going to report the incident.

[Nick Hughes]

Bri,

I agree and yet disagree.  For someone who's grown up in England with it's no right to carry etc they can be fairly entrenched in their views about gun ownership and violence in the States etc.  Equally, someone who's grown up in the States and carried weapons etc is going to be convinced (as you say) that their way is right.

I think I'm actually in a better position than most to weigh up both sides dispassionately and make a decision because I grew up in Australia (which at the time permited rifles and shotguns - no pistols), went into the military (guns very much just a tool for the job) then lived in the UK for six years (draconian gun rules) and now live here (my State permits concealed carry etc)

(Add to that list other places I've lived like Germany, Russia, Djibouti, Corsica et al)

At 6'8, 280 pounds and a student of practical martial arts for 36 years I'd love a world without guns.  There wouldn't be much out there that would stop me if I was inclined to be a bad bastid.  (Every man for himself said the elephant as he danced amongst the chickens )

But I've seen first hand the dramatic drop in the crime rate here when they introduced the concealed carry bill.  I actually feel safer (less likely to end up in a scrap) here than in the UK and I know people like my wife and mother in law now have a fighting chance should the goblins come to the house while I'm not home.

N

PS:  It's a bit like the the old line "I've been poor and I've been rich.  I'd rather be rich"  IOW "Ive lived where you can't have guns and I've lived where you can.  I prefer living where you can."

[Bri Thai]

Nonsense.

A gun wouldn't stop you anyway.......

[tlouis]

Jeez Ninor, 6'8, 280! Impressive! Lets face it, a gun, and the willingness to use it, is the great equalizer. IMHO, if a women is serious about protecting herself, after avoidance and awareness, a handgun is the #1 prority where it is legal to carry. With the proper mindset and training.Although I think the importance of training is overdone. Mindset is what saves your life. Take a good .38 snubby loaded with +P rounds and your set- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to point it and shoot.

[Nick Hughes]

Tlouis,

We're getting off the topic but there's actually three things essential to winning a fight and that's tactics, technique and mind-set.

If I have the mindset but lack the tactical awareness to take cover and the technical ability to hit what I'm shooting at I'm screwed.

If I have the technical ability and the tactical awareness but lack the willingness to pull the trigger I'm as much use as a chocolate fireman.

If I have the mindset and the technique but I'm standing in tho open I'm also done for.

Got to have all three....but mindset is the MOST important.  I use a triangle to illustrate the concept at my seminars with mindset on the bottom as the most important, tactics next and technique last.

Regards

N

[tlouis]

I could not find a breakdown of the rape statistics for Chicago but the following should be helpful in understanding the numbers-

Reporting Statistics
Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992). In 1995 there were 97,460 rapes reported to law enforcement officials. At a 16% reporting rate, this means that there were actually closer to 649,733 rapes in the United States. Along the same lines, the number of rapes reported in New York state in 1996 was 20,911. At a 16% reporting rate, this means the actual number of rapes was closer to 139,406. (Computerized Criminal History, Feb. 1998)

The rate of false reports of rape is approximately 2 - 3% which is no different than that for other crimes. This is different than the 8% of reports which are unfounded. This means that in 8% of the rape cases reported the investigators or prosecutors deemed that the case was not prosecutable for any number of reasons. Only 2 - 3% of the reports however were fabricated stories.

Victim Characteristics

1 in 3 sexual assault victims are under the age of 12 (Snyder & Sickmund, 1999) and convicted rape and sexual assault offenders report that 2/3 of their victims were under the age of 18. Among victims age 18 - 29, two thirds had a prior relationship with the rapist. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Criminal Victimization, 1996)

18% of women who reported being raped before age 18 said they were also raped after age 18. (Violence Against Women Survey, 1998)

Perpetrator Characteristics

In 1997, 68.3% were perpetrated by someone who knew the victim. (Bureau of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey, 1997) 78% of women raped or physically assaulted since they turned 18 were assaulted by a current or former husband, live-in partner or date. 17% were victimized by an acquaintance, 9% by a relative other than a husband and only 14% were assaulted by a stranger. (National Violence Against Women Survey, 1998)

Assault Characteristics

Rape and sexual assault are not crimes that usually occur in dark alleys or in deserted areas at night. As a matter of fact 6 out of 10 sexual assaults occur in the home of the victim or the home of a friend, neighbor or relative. (Greenfeld, 1997) 43.4% of rapes and sexual assaults occur between the hours of 6PM and midnight Greenfeld, 1997) and about two thirds occur between the hours of 6 PM and 6 AM (Greenfeld, 1997).

IThis could explain why weapons were not used often in the assault. However, important to note that only 16% of rapes are reported. I would imagine that the rapes reported would tend to be the more violent onnes. Just speculation.

[Kentbob]

  Will there be any problems with me posting this on another site?

Kent