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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • May 21, 2012, 08:39:08 PM
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Author Topic: 5 mins of fun  (Read 2631 times)

Rob

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5 mins of fun
« on: November 13, 2004, 08:35:55 AM »

I made me a makeshift war post today and started banging away..
Well i guess my modified solid oak cane which i cut off to make
a SDMS stick..  Wasnt all that stout afterall  ;D it broke
5 minutes into the fun.. Actually i found a weak spot i guess
where a knot was..

Glad this didnt happen in a combat situation  8)
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Mt. Orab Ohio

Trembula

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2004, 02:16:50 PM »

Rob:

Everything breaks... hopefully this is a rare occurence for you and you aren't one of those people who could break a stainless steel bowling ball in a padded room... ;)

On the other hand, I have noticed that when one of my training sticks breaks, it usually ends up with some sort of a point which makes for something nice to start stabbing with... either that or you end up with TWO sticks so then you can doble baston them into obliteration!

Having worked around lumber and a sawmill for a significant portion of a previous life, sometimes a knot matters, and sometimes it doesn't. Don't dismiss a stick for being a little crooked or having some knots provided the knot is on the surface and shallow so that it does not weaken the center of the stick. For something the size of a fighting stick, the dark portion of the knot (on most woods) shouldn't be anything larger than perhaps 1/8" in diameter. I make all my training sticks from saplings (hickory or oak) so it is pretty tough for a tree straight enough that is that size to have a knot that is a real big issue. But for a lot of commercially made hardwood sticks, they are sawed out of logs, then milled into something round and cut/shaped to length and spec as desired. If the knot doesn't make the stick break through casual handling and their Quality Control is less than desired, the ones with structural flaws that don't break will end up hitting the market. It sounds like you might of ended up with one of those.

While I am on a roll, don't buy any sticks that have been painted. It covers up a lot of imperfections in the wood and makes it really tough to hang onto when the surface gets slippery. A general rule of thumb is the heavier (denser) the stick, the more durable it is, but it isn't always true. This summer I saw one of the "incredibly" tough white waxwood sticks sold by a company well known to most folks here catastrophically fail, when it collided with a much denser stick (hickory I believe).

Dan
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Rob

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2004, 06:41:35 PM »

This was a nice straight piece of Oak, which is why
i cut it off  ;D
It would have probably served many years as a cane  :)

I was hitting on a thick piece of Curly Maple Molding and
taking chunks out of it..

Im going to get me some more sticks and a better
warpost.. Its just too much fun  ;D ;D ;D
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Mt. Orab Ohio

Professor

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2004, 03:03:37 AM »

This was a nice straight piece of Oak, which is why
i cut it off  ;D
It would have probably served many years as a cane  :)

I was hitting on a thick piece of Curly Maple Molding and
taking chunks out of it..

Im going to get me some more sticks and a better
warpost.. Its just too much fun  ;D ;D ;D


1" iron pipe....   ;)
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

pmh1nic

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2004, 05:13:05 AM »

I'd be concerned about using anything other than a wood that splits (like rattan and bamboo) rather than a stick the breaks with a piece flying off to who knows where. This is especially important if you're doing stick work around others that are training.
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Kentbob

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2004, 01:10:37 AM »

one word:  Ironwood.
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Professor

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2004, 05:48:41 AM »

one word:  Ironwood.

one word: don't



You'll ruin your ironwood.  You'l take and create short splinters....it's an expensive lesson...trust me.

Jeff
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

seanross

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2004, 02:02:02 AM »

I don't break sticks.  Ever.

The reason is I don't use wood. From any industrial plastics supply company, you can buy polycarbonate rod, solid or hollow.  Polycarbonate is the stuff they use in riot batons and bullet proof glass.  You'd have to run over it with a truck or put it in a 5 ton press to break it.  I also have re-made various chinese martial arts weapons with solid fiberglass and Delrin as handles.  Of course, it helps that I am comfortable with machining things myself.

I buy 1" diameter 1/8" wall hollow polycarbonate tube for ~20 per 10 feet, then saw it into lengths and either keep it plain or wrap it with plumbing insulation and duct tape.  I also buy 1" diameter solid polycarbonate rod for ~45 per 10 feet and make it into combat sticks - kind of lightweight riot batons.
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Professor

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2004, 08:03:10 AM »

I don't break sticks.  Ever.

I also buy 1" diameter solid polycarbonate rod for ~45 per 10 feet and make it into combat sticks - kind of lightweight riot batons.

Someone in Texas (hint, hint, hint) would certainly put a little bit to good use . . . 


Email me....I want to make a deal.

Please....
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

kamagong

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2004, 11:12:21 AM »

Drop me an email too, someone in Kentucky wants some info on indestructible sticks!!!!!!!
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Rob

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2004, 04:28:44 AM »

Is this ploycarbonate material better than G-10?
Cause i was thinking about making some out of it.

Thanks
Rob-
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seanross

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2004, 11:41:44 AM »

Polycarbonate vs. G10 phenolic.

G-10 fiberglass reinforced phenolic is absolutely amazing stuff.  Get yourself a 3" length of that and you can smash cinderblocks without even scratching it.  Three problems:  1) expense.  The stuff cost $10-$15 per linear foot.  2) machinability.  You need carbide or diamond tools to even scratch the stuff and it wears them out real quick.  So if you like the rod just as it comes from the manufacturer, no problem, but if you want to round off the ends (avoids cuts and makes a nice rib spreader) and put some knurled grips like I do, you just can't do that kind of thing on a standard mill or lathe.  3) Rigidity.  G-10 is used in high voltage power systems where you need something with great structural rigidity but doesn't conduct electricity.  When you whap something with G-10 phenolic, it really sends a shock wave up your arm.  If Eric Blair/Mare Blair/F-stix/usual suspects network is still in business, they are working on making G-10 phenolic fighting sticks.  Last I checked, he wants $150 for a pair. 

Polycarbonate is relatively cheap.  You can buy a police riot baton, 36"x1.25"diameter with rounded ends and knurled grips for ~$50.  If you are comfortable with machining your own or know someone who is, then you can buy your own stock from a local plastic supply merchant and then round off the ends and put your own knurling on.  That is what I do.  I sell a 33" x 1" diameter clearish polycarbonate stick to my guys for $25.  That is about $15 in stock, $10 for me and about $30 in my time and wear and tear on the governments lathe that are not figured in.  For the half dozen or so I have made, no big deal.  If I had to buy or rent my milling equipment, I would have to sell them for more.

Polycarbonate is easy to machine.  You can drill it, cut it with a saw, sand it with a belt sander or mill it easily.  No nasty lung irritants like with fiberglass. No nasty smells or toxic fumes like phenolic unless you run your tool speed to high and then it starts melting and gooing up the bits.

Polycarbonate is slightly flexible.  When you hit something with it, it flexes just a bit, reducing the shock to your arm.  In that sense it is more like wood.  You can scratch it, but you can't break it with normal human strength.  That is why they use it in bullet proof glass, riot gear and shooters glasses.


To the couple people who wanted "deals".  I don't know that I want to get into making polycarbonate fighting sticks for the world, but I might be talked into making up a few extras and bringing them to the Las Vegas seminar at the end of January.
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pmh1nic

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2004, 11:50:45 AM »

One concern in stick training, especially with new students, is lack of control and injury. This is one reason why I DON'T recommend ironwood as the first set of sticks for new students. If you make a mistake with a rattan or bamboo stick you get stung but you're probably not going to breaking anything even with a fairly hard strike. That's not true with iron which as you know has a much higher density than rattan or bamboo and where a mistake is more likely to mean a broken finger versus as painful sting.
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seanross

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2004, 09:44:30 AM »

With regard to beginner sticks, that is what I use the hollow polycarbonate for.  It is light and slightly flexible.  The solid polycarbonate is a bone breaker.  Even more so if you go with G-10.
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"Do not imitate the ancient masters.  Seek what they sought!"

Rob

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Re: 5 mins of fun
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2004, 11:33:15 PM »

Eric Blair is still in business, and a first class individual to deal with  :)
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Mt. Orab Ohio
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