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W. Hock Hochheim's

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  • April 25, 2018, 07:56:52 PM
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Author Topic: "...while holding in his guts..."  (Read 2552 times)

Hock

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"...while holding in his guts..."
« on: February 03, 2006, 08:47:36 AM »

This interesting story came in...

I was watching some of videos the other day and I remembered hearing you talk about how we have to learn to fight past the gunshot, slash, stab and/or vicious hit many times in order to win.  I thought of a story I've heard about someone in my family and I thought this a perfect example of what you were talking about I decided to share it with you.  Please forgive me if the details are spotty this story has been handed down and retold many times.
 
Many years ago my great, great grandfather (I don't know what his name was for sure, I'll call him "Jack" for simplicity) was outside at his wood pile cutting and splitting firewood when a man approached him (I also don't know this man's name, I'll call him "Joe").  Jack was simply minding his own business trying get up some firewood but Joe had very evil intentions.  The story goes that two had been feuding over something, I don't know what it was they were feuding over, the reasons I've heard include quarreling over a plow and/or a mule, another reason (and the most likely reason I believe) was a woman had "promised" Joe she would love him if he killed Jack for her.  While Jack was cutting firewood Joe approached him and suddenly slashed him, I'm not sure whether or not there was an arguement before Jack was slashed or not.  Jack fell to the ground, he was down but not out, Jack somehow managed to get his own knife out and while holding in his guts get back up and continue fighting and kill Joe before collapsing to the ground.  After Jack had fallen to the ground some family members who must have seen the comotion called a doctor to tend to Jack.  Jack had fallen into to some wood chips and when the doctor arrived Jack's chances for survival didn't look good at all, the doctor cleaned out the wound as best as he could and stitched the cut up.  A family member walked from Hayesville, North Carolina to Robbinsville, North Carolina to stand guard over Jack in case other members of Joe's clan wanted revenge.  Jack to the suprise of everyone survived and live several more years after this incident.
 
This story is proof to me that your adage of "Go down fighting . . .You may never have to go" is very true.  I hope you enjoy this story, I'll see you when you come to Andrews, North Carolina this month.
 
Brent J. Roberson

Nick Hughes

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Re: "...while holding in his guts..."
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2006, 08:59:02 AM »

Paul Howe makes an interesting point in his book "Leadership and Training to Fight"  (have you finished it yet Hock?) about the old MILES gear training soldiers to stop when they were hit.  He has all his guys in scenario training whether they are hit with simunition, paint balls or airsoft, keep going unless he or one of his instructors put's you down.

it is largely a question of attitude.

N
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

Kentbob

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Re: "...while holding in his guts..."
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 11:51:18 AM »

Paul Howe makes an interesting point in his book "Leadership and Training to Fight"  (have you finished it yet Hock?) about the old MILES gear training soldiers to stop when they were hit.  He has all his guys in scenario training whether they are hit with simunition, paint balls or airsoft, keep going unless he or one of his instructors put's you down.

it is largely a question of attitude.

N
  Not to name drop here, but a few years ago I got the chance to play Op-For (opposing forces, for the unenlightened) against a unit of SEALs, and they did exactly that.  We poured the fire on them, but they didn't just drop and die in place, they kept fighting on "to the Ranger objective", as I like to say.  They warned us beforehand that there would be no "die in place" on their part.  And they gave us the same option, which sounded good at first to us young infantry folk, until you realized the difference betwee our paintball guns, and their simmunitions.
  This also reminds me of a passage in "The Hagakure", about how a proper Samurai will have the strength to turn and kill his attacker, even though he is mortally wounded.  Which is something that I am always preaching to the troops, during any kind of training. 

Kent
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Hock

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Re: "...while holding in his guts..."
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 12:01:48 PM »

This is kind of the curse of airsoft, gas, sims training.In fact, even  prior to that, using blanks in the 1970s, I was first introduced to this lay down and die problem


Always has been a training problem.
Gary Klugeagwitz of the old caliber Press had two types of sims trainig situations. One  when the bad guy actors know they should lose and so for their assigned parts they drop and die.


The other is the problem, freestyle interaction. Nobody wants to to die, should die, so how in the world can organize a maximum mesage.

I try to warn the freestyle sessions about this.  But what of  muscle memory?

It is a problematic.

I have collected info on this for an article but I think I will get it up as a blog.
Or if looks REALLY good to me, I may use it in the next issue of the CQC Mag where many more people will read it...

Hock

 

Nick Hughes

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Re: "...while holding in his guts..."
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2006, 05:43:44 PM »

We did/do the same thing with multiple training.  We'd be surrounded by anything from 4 to 15 bad guys and the games would begin...

One time they'd all drop if tagged with something that should, in theory, work if all goes according to plan...

The 2nd time through, the fookers just will not die...

the truth in fights in the street ends up lying somewhere near the middle...i.e. some of them you'll hit once and drop but others may take several shots before going down.

N
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne
 

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