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[mleone]

Thou shall not kill?

Thou really should not murder!


Now when is some one morally and legally justified in taking a life?
Lets here some comments!

 

[Street Survival Systems]

In defense of one's life or of another person

[JimH]

You are not justified to murder,but you are justified in taking a life when the attacker leaves you ,or others ,no  choice,either by use of a deadly weapon or unlawful physical attack with intent to do serious bodily harm.

You must be able to show such intent and or verbalize your fear of such intent.

[misshinryu]

It is, "Thou shall not committ murder."

[Professor]

It is, "Thou shall not committ murder."

Amen.

[bsp98st]

Right on, Mike.

ST

[Bri Thai]

Is it?  Do we have any genuine translators of the original bible here?  I don't know either way, but do know that people interpret things in a way that shows their pre-determined opinions in a good light.

I was on another forum asking how they reconcile gun ownership wih the phrase "the meek shall inherit the earth."  Their answer was along the lines of "well, meek doesn't mean what you think it means.  It means someone who will defend what is right....."

See what I mean?

Personally I've occasionally wondered if I was meant to be a Jew.  Because all that "Eye for an eye" stuff really appeals to me.     (see, lost one already).

[mleone]

I storngly beleive we would not get punished for justifiably killing.
If that was the case killing animals would be againsts gods law as well.

[tlouis]

There are Christain sects that refuse to lift a hand against their fellow man and they have survived and prospered. I know the argument will be that others did their fighting for them, but that doesn't change the fact. My own understanding is that the first bibles were Greek, translatrd from Aramic, a now dead language, and the word used did imply 'Kill" meant unjustified taking of a life. I mean, think about it logiacally. The ten commandments are Judaic and those guys killed a whole lot of people according to the old Testament. Without Gods dissaproval. While I am no biblical scholar, it is widely believed the only reason the old testament is even included in Christian text is to give valisity to the heritage of Christ. Also, Jesus gave us new commandments, the greatest of which is to love one another. So, when we talk, as Christians, about the Old Testament, we have to remember, Jesus re-wrote it, and thats why were not all Jewish.

[fabbe]

The book "On Combat" by Dave Grossman discusses this briefly (in the chapter called "Thou Shalt Not Kill? The Judeo/Christian View of Killing"). In this book Grossman says:

"You have heard the commandment, 'Thou shall not kill.' With few exceptions. however, most major modern translations, and all Jewish translations of the original Hebrew, interprets the commandment as, 'You shall not murder' (Exodus 20:13). [...] Can you tell the difference in killing 10,000 men in lawful combat and murdering one man to get at his wife? If you can, maybe God can too."

He also brings up another important point related to this (a quotation by Dr. Ignatius Piazza):

"Are you ready to kill another human being? If you have not made spiritual peace - in advance - with your moral decision to take another life to save your own life or those around you, then you may... find it difficult to make the decision when time is of the essence"

/F

[Chris Roberts]

Heard an interesting piece on the news yesterday from Germany...

Apparently, with the up coming World Cup, the German government are currently discussing suitable reponses to possible terrorist threats...

Under existing German law, the Air Force would not be authorised to shoot down a passenger jet that was known to be under the control of terroists and heading for a crowded football stadium. A proposal had been put forward to change this law to allow the jet to be shot down as a last resort - it was rejected! The reason for the rejection? Apparrently, we "can not morally weigh the life of one human against another...."

Now to me, if you have to choice of killing 100 to save 5,000 to 20,000,s urely that's a clear cut decision? (Although I wouldn't want to be the one to have to make it.)

Is it okay to kill when it will save the lives of others?

Chris.

[fabbe]

Now to me, if you have to choice of killing 100 to save 5,000 to 20,000,s urely that's a clear cut decision? (Although I wouldn't want to be the one to have to make it.)

Well, I agree - especially since the case with the plane isn't one against another, so to speak. It's more like 100 deaths (ONLY plane) against 5100 deaths (BOTH plane AND football stadium).

But - just for the sake of argument - let's say it was EITHER the 100 OR the 5000.

And let's say that the 100 are your family, your relatives (except for your mother-in-law...  ) and your closest friends. And the 5,000 are all insane massmurderers, child molestors and North Korean commie dictators with weird haircuts.

Would it still be a clear cut decision? And for whom?

These kinds of decisions are made EVERY single day in our world. When a police man has shot a bank robber to death or when a fighter pilot has bombed an enemy base somewhere or when a doctor has performed triage at an emergency site - someone has already weighed the life of one human against another. Same thing, but perhaps different numbers.

So even if it's a very difficult decision to make, I really can't understand the way the German government is reasoning in this case.

/F

[Adventure]

- it was rejected! The reason for the rejection? Apparrently, we "can not morally weigh the life of one human against another...."

Now to me, if you have to choice of killing 100 to save 5,000 to 20,000,s urely that's a clear cut decision? (Although I wouldn't want to be the one to have to make it.)

Is it okay to kill when it will save the lives of others?

Chris.

Well the Germans are now sounding about as bright has the French (don't hate me Ninor).
It is not about weighing the life of one or the other, it is about the greater good, which they cannot see; The Needs Of The Many Out Weigh The Needs Of The Few.

And let's say that the 100 are your family, your relatives (except for your mother-in-law...  ) and your closest friends. And the 5,000 are all insane massmurderers, child molestors and North Korean commie dictators with weird haircuts.
/F

That is Funny, I don't care what ya'll say, that right there is funny.

[Adventure]

or when a doctor has performed triage at an emergency site - someone has already weighed the life on one human against another. Same thing, but perhaps different numbers.

So even if it's a very difficult decision to make, I really can't understand the way the German government is reasoning in this case.
/F

So Gremans just need just have ER doctors leading their country or Paramedics, we make those kind of decision every day.

[misshinryu]

There are Christain sects that refuse to lift a hand against their fellow man and they have survived and prospered. I know the argument will be that others did their fighting for them, but that doesn't change the fact. My own understanding is that the first bibles were Greek, translatrd from Aramic, a now dead language, and the word used did imply 'Kill" meant unjustified taking of a life. I mean, think about it logiacally. The ten commandments are Judaic and those guys killed a whole lot of people according to the old Testament. Without Gods dissaproval. While I am no biblical scholar, it is widely believed the only reason the old testament is even included in Christian text is to give valisity to the heritage of Christ. Also, Jesus gave us new commandments, the greatest of which is to love one another. So, when we talk, as Christians, about the Old Testament, we have to remember, Jesus re-wrote it, and thats why were not all Jewish.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the promises in the OT. He did not re-write it. That is why the OT is in the Christian scriptures. We are Judeo (sp) Christian.
Before the 10 Commandments were given in Exodus 20, God had ordained wars. So he authorized killing, ie. violence.
Capital punishment was already authorized, Gen. 9:6, Lev. 24:17, Num. 35: 30-34.
Christ role was not to come and make us pacifist, but to redeem us with his blood on the cross for our sins. The Bible says that we have fallen short of his standard and since God is mercyful as well as just, he provided our redemption by the incarnation.