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Author Topic: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"  (Read 11032 times)

mpbelzer

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The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« on: September 20, 2004, 05:34:26 AM »

Hey Out There!

If you are reading these, how about puting in your "two cents" and let's get some discussion going!  Today I am wondering how many people carry what is now commonly called "The Kubotan" A.K.A the "Yawara Stick" or the "pocket stick".  The "Kubotan" version is used as a "key ring" and seems to be a very useful tool/weapon, very accessable since your keey are usually on you or close to you.  Has any one put the "pocket stick" to use?  What was the situation?

Mike B
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Trembula

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2004, 06:07:52 AM »

Mike:

I have a couple of palmsticks, but have never found much of a use for one. What I carry instead is a Surefire E2 and a "Predator". Palmstick techniques work just fine with the Surefire, plus you get a really bright light which can add options to your force continuum toolbox. The Predator can also be used for Palmstick techniques, but with its points and other features, depending on which model is being used, is a very effective "less than lethal" tool.

My keys are attached to a Newt Livesay "Meat Eater" which I suppose could be considered a palmstick with a slotted end, but it is only about three inches long. The problem with attaching your keys to a palmstick or flashlight, etc is that if you have too many, you might not be able to find the palmstick in the mass of keys when you need it.

Dan
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szorn

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2004, 06:25:13 AM »

I emphasize the study of the pocket-stick for for it's effective carry-over into improvised weapon use. Although I don't carry a "pocket-stick" I generally like to carry a Super Sharpie marker which has plenty of heft and can readily be used as an effective impact tool.

My wife carries a "Persuader" keychain, which is an offshoot of the Kubotan.

We both focus on tactical awareness, avoidance, and prevention which has luckily kept us from ever having to deploy the tools for personal protection.

Steve
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michael

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2004, 07:15:34 AM »

Super sharpie markers are good, as is a good quality, steel ink pen. I always have the ink pen along with a Streamlight TL-2 that makes a dandy impact weapon, and both can readily be carried on airplanes. I also carry an ASP palm defender, but I use it for a convenient way to carry OC, not as a kubotan. I don't use any type of cutting tool attached to my light--I don't think the added liability is worth it, and the regular light works just as well as an impact weapon, IMHO. If I need to cut someone, my Spyderco Chinook does a much better job.
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2004, 06:14:22 PM »

Has anyone tried the DTL IMPACT KERAMBIT?  A friend of mine gave me one to try out.  It seems as though it has possibilties.  The same guy also gave me "the stinger" by James Keating.  That seems pretty cool as well.

Best

Joe
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Professor

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2004, 01:09:48 AM »

. I also carry an ASP palm defender, but I use it for a convenient way to carry OC, not as a kubotan.

I have had both rejected by the airlines before 9/11..... This would probably not work on the planes now...I don't quite know if you meant for these to be carried on airlines from your response.
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Trembula

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2004, 03:18:43 AM »

"I have had both rejected by the airlines..."

That is why I like the Surefire... it is "airplane safe" and I have flown with mine in my pocket every time since the Attacks on America. Now when I fly I take a Predator or two with me - no problems with that either since it is made of plastic, you just leave it in your pocket and the machines don't see it at all.

Dan
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michael

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2004, 04:54:22 AM »

I was not referring to carrying the ASP palm defender on the plane, maybe that was not clear in my post. I do regularly carry my steel ink pen and Streamlight TL-2 with no problems. OC is a definite no-no on an airplane.
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usks1

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2004, 12:17:08 AM »

I carry a cheap little aluminum mini-stick keychain I ordered out of the Century catalog.
Hefty enough for a fist load, long enough to use as a Kubotan, and with my keys on it, it makes a pretty good little key whipper, and costs less than $5.

I have flown with it a few times since 911 and it made it through.. Even when I had to take off my belt and shoes.

Keep up the hard training.

Dean.
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Rob

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2004, 12:24:53 AM »

I carry the older Black hard plastic "Monadnock" Kubotan...
I usually just put one key on it and leave it in my pocket...
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Heath

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2004, 01:54:40 AM »

i have seen on several LE websites that several  impact weapons are against the law... Arent  the ones that are mentioned above included in that list too..i know each state varies.
Plus, most people that carry them dont know how to use them (including pepper spray) and it would seem that they would be caught with thier hands in their pockets when they get attacked. Also, most of them probably would forget they even had them in the first place...another point is that i need to get " this item" and then its against the law and I am the one to get the blame..check your states LE website and see what is and what is not against the law before buying the impact weapon..and then learn how to use it in a course.....just my .02
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Professor

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2004, 07:18:33 PM »

i have seen on several LE websites that several  impact weapons are against the law... Arent  the ones that are mentioned above included in that list too..i know each state varies.
Plus, most people that carry them dont know how to use them (including pepper spray) and it would seem that they would be caught with thier hands in their pockets when they get attacked. Also, most of them probably would forget they even had them in the first place...another point is that i need to get " this item" and then its against the law and I am the one to get the blame..check your states LE website and see what is and what is not against the law before buying the impact weapon..and then learn how to use it in a course.....just my .02


Title 10, SECTION 46.01.  of Texas Penal Code:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm

It's an interesting read.....and is wide ranging......

Here's a club specifically:

"Club" means an instrument that is specially
designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious
bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and
includes but is not limited to the following:

         (A)  blackjack;                                                             
         (B)  nightstick;                                                             
         (C)  mace;                                                                   
         (D)  tomahawk. 
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Heath

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2004, 11:57:53 PM »

Here is some interesting info: Prohibited (c)(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person. (2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner.

  If you are in Law Enforcement, i am sure that some of these apply or most of them dont. I just want the person on the street to be aware that carrrying some of these impact weapons COULD possibly cause more trouble than they are worth. BUT also its hard not to arm yourself these days with the unique people out on the street.
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Professor

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2004, 06:09:35 AM »

Here is some interesting info: Prohibited (c)(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person. (2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner.

  If you are in Law Enforcement, i am sure that some of these apply or most of them dont. I just want the person on the street to be aware that carrrying some of these impact weapons COULD possibly cause more trouble than they are worth. BUT also its hard not to arm yourself these days with the unique people out on the street.


Which state, nation, etc. is this from.....
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Heath

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2004, 09:31:20 AM »

That was from a discussion about having a CCW permit and not thinking that other weapons would be a problem but this law in PA states otherwise...MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-101 Formerly cited as MD CODE Art. 27, § 36 Criminal Law (Refs & Annos) Title 4. Weapon Crimes Subtitle 1. General Provisions § 4-101. Dangerous weapons Definitions (a)(1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated. (2) "Nunchaku" means a device constructed of two pieces of any substance, including wood, metal, or plastic, connected by any chain, rope, leather, or other flexible material not exceeding 24 inches in length. (3)(i) "Pepper mace" means an aerosol propelled combination of highly disabling irritant pepper-based products. (ii) "Pepper mace" is also known as oleoresin capsicum (o.c.) spray. (4) "Star knife" means a device used as a throwing weapon, consisting of several sharp or pointed blades arrayed as radially disposed arms about a central disk. (5)(i) "Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku. (ii) "Weapon" does not include: 1. a handgun; or 2. a penknife without a switchblade. Exceptions for certain individuals (b) This section does not prohibit the following individuals from carrying a weapon: (1) an officer of the State, or of any county or municipal corporation of the State, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the officer's official equipment, or by any conservator of the peace, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the conservator's official equipment, or by any officer or conservator of the peace of another state who is temporarily in this State; (2) a special agent of a railroad; (3) a holder of a permit to carry a handgun issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article; or (4) an individual who carries the weapon as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case. Prohibited (c)(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person. (2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner. (3)(i) This paragraph applies in Anne Arundel County, Baltimore County, Caroline County, Cecil County, Harford County, Kent County, Montgomery County, Prince George's County, St. Mary's County, Talbot County, Washington County, and Worcester County. (ii) A minor may not carry a dangerous weapon between 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise, whether concealed or not, except while: 1. on a bona fide hunting trip; or 2. engaged in or on the way to or returning from a bona fide trap shoot, sport shooting event, or any organized civic or military activity. Penalties (d)(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both. (2) For a person convicted under subsection (c)(1) or (2) of this section, if it appears from the evidence that the weapon was carried, concealed or openly, with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another, the court shall impose the highest sentence of imprisonment prescribed.

Remember that my point was that people need  to know the laws in the state that they are in. Sometimes by law defending yourself can land you in places where you do not need to be..If what this paragraph above states is true and i did live there and carried the pocket stick or kubotan..then before i defend myself i would already be breaking the law...yes??  Is this correct or am i waayyyy off subject here?? LMK  (let me know)   ;D
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Professor

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2004, 12:23:11 PM »

That was from a discussion about having a CCW permit and not thinking that other weapons would be a problem but this law in PA states otherwise...MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-101 Formerly cited as MD CODE Art. 27, § 36 Criminal Law (Refs & Annos) Title 4. Weapon Crimes Subtitle 1. General Provisions § 4-101. Dangerous weapons Definitions (a)(1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated. (2) "Nunchaku" means a device constructed of two pieces of any substance, including wood, metal, or plastic, connected by any chain, rope, leather, or other flexible material not exceeding 24 inches in length. (3)(i) "Pepper mace" means an aerosol propelled combination of highly disabling irritant pepper-based products. (ii) "Pepper mace" is also known as oleoresin capsicum (o.c.) spray. (4) "Star knife" means a device used as a throwing weapon, consisting of several sharp or pointed blades arrayed as radially disposed arms about a central disk. (5)(i) "Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku. (ii) "Weapon" does not include: 1. a handgun; or 2. a penknife without a switchblade. Exceptions for certain individuals (b) This section does not prohibit the following individuals from carrying a weapon: (1) an officer of the State, or of any county or municipal corporation of the State, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the officer's official equipment, or by any conservator of the peace, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the conservator's official equipment, or by any officer or conservator of the peace of another state who is temporarily in this State; (2) a special agent of a railroad; (3) a holder of a permit to carry a handgun issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article; or (4) an individual who carries the weapon as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case. Prohibited (c)(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person. (2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner. (3)(i) This paragraph applies in Anne Arundel County, Baltimore County, Caroline County, Cecil County, Harford County, Kent County, Montgomery County, Prince George's County, St. Mary's County, Talbot County, Washington County, and Worcester County. (ii) A minor may not carry a dangerous weapon between 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise, whether concealed or not, except while: 1. on a bona fide hunting trip; or 2. engaged in or on the way to or returning from a bona fide trap shoot, sport shooting event, or any organized civic or military activity. Penalties (d)(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both. (2) For a person convicted under subsection (c)(1) or (2) of this section, if it appears from the evidence that the weapon was carried, concealed or openly, with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another, the court shall impose the highest sentence of imprisonment prescribed.

Remember that my point was that people need  to know the laws in the state that they are in. Sometimes by law defending yourself can land you in places where you do not need to be..If what this paragraph above states is true and i did live there and carried the pocket stick or kubotan..then before i defend myself i would already be breaking the law...yes??  Is this correct or am i waayyyy off subject here?? LMK  (let me know)   ;D



In the US, if the instrument is designated as a weapon (in other words:  designed with the intent to injure), then you can be in trouble before you start.     Thus the need to utilize improvised blunt weapons, or a pocket knife that you carry AND UTILIZE on a daily basis...

I use my pocket knife everyday at work to open my mail.  It is my letter opener.   ;)

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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Professor

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2004, 12:24:17 PM »

That was from a discussion about having a CCW permit and not thinking that other weapons would be a problem but this law in PA states otherwise...MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-101 Formerly cited as MD CODE Art. 27, § 36 Criminal Law (Refs & Annos) Title 4. Weapon Crimes Subtitle 1. General Provisions § 4-101. Dangerous weapons Definitions (a)(1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated. (2) "Nunchaku" means a device constructed of two pieces of any substance, including wood, metal, or plastic, connected by any chain, rope, leather, or other flexible material not exceeding 24 inches in length. (3)(i) "Pepper mace" means an aerosol propelled combination of highly disabling irritant pepper-based products. (ii) "Pepper mace" is also known as oleoresin capsicum (o.c.) spray. (4) "Star knife" means a device used as a throwing weapon, consisting of several sharp or pointed blades arrayed as radially disposed arms about a central disk. (5)(i) "Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku. (ii) "Weapon" does not include: 1. a handgun; or 2. a penknife without a switchblade. Exceptions for certain individuals (b) This section does not prohibit the following individuals from carrying a weapon: (1) an officer of the State, or of any county or municipal corporation of the State, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the officer's official equipment, or by any conservator of the peace, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the conservator's official equipment, or by any officer or conservator of the peace of another state who is temporarily in this State; (2) a special agent of a railroad; (3) a holder of a permit to carry a handgun issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article; or (4) an individual who carries the weapon as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case. Prohibited (c)(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person. (2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner. (3)(i) This paragraph applies in Anne Arundel County, Baltimore County, Caroline County, Cecil County, Harford County, Kent County, Montgomery County, Prince George's County, St. Mary's County, Talbot County, Washington County, and Worcester County. (ii) A minor may not carry a dangerous weapon between 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise, whether concealed or not, except while: 1. on a bona fide hunting trip; or 2. engaged in or on the way to or returning from a bona fide trap shoot, sport shooting event, or any organized civic or military activity. Penalties (d)(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both. (2) For a person convicted under subsection (c)(1) or (2) of this section, if it appears from the evidence that the weapon was carried, concealed or openly, with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another, the court shall impose the highest sentence of imprisonment prescribed.

Remember that my point was that people need  to know the laws in the state that they are in. Sometimes by law defending yourself can land you in places where you do not need to be..If what this paragraph above states is true and i did live there and carried the pocket stick or kubotan..then before i defend myself i would already be breaking the law...yes??  Is this correct or am i waayyyy off subject here?? LMK  (let me know)   ;D



In the US, if the instrument is designated as a weapon (in other words:  designed with the intent to injure), then you can be in trouble before you start.     Thus the need to utilize improvised blunt weapons, or a pocket knife that you carry AND UTILIZE on a daily basis...

I use my pocket knife everyday at work to open my mail.  It is my letter opener.   ;)




BTW, move.....ya'll are messed up.....
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Heath

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2004, 12:30:37 PM »

Dont worry..i dont live there...hahahaaa  just wanted the average joe to have a heads up with the law
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Rawhide

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2004, 01:27:55 AM »

Thats why it like the idea of a good old hard pen or as mentioned earlier a sharpie.  Letter writer or bad guy whacker? - Sitiuation dictates!
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TAC

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 08:49:18 PM »

Ball-point pen. Preferably steel. I generally carry at least two in different carry-sites where ever I go. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no trouble maker but one of my favourite points about these little tools is that they come into clubs and bars with me even when I'm searched by security. And we all know how hectic things can get in these places when the shit hits the fan.

Sharif
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misshinryu

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2004, 09:49:37 PM »

Mike,
Why carry one of those when you have your hands? ;)
Recently, I saw a demonstration of something similar to that and it seemed like their was more time fumbeling with the object then anything else.
I do sell the kubutons to the ladies and they like them.
Mike Steele
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Rawhide

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2004, 03:14:17 AM »

Now, now Mr. Steele, we don't all have conditioned hands of death such as yourself.  Destroying helpless bricks and such, for SHAME!  If it works for the ladies why not use it?  Surely its not unmanly...!
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Trembula

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2004, 05:24:41 AM »

Mike:

I am going to have to side with Jeff on this one... Losing is unmanly - not using a piece of plastic or metal to put a little more power in a strike or pressure to encourage someone to move.

(have to break this message up... am getting an error about having over 700 characters)

Dan

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Trembula

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2004, 05:25:03 AM »

(here's the rest...)

Police Officers, guards, bouncers, etc. are in my opinion the ones who can make the most use of a "pocket stick"/Predator/Impact Kerambit/Stinger or whatever your personal choice of pain compliance tool is. Would I pull one of these out to defend myself? Perhas not. But I would pull one out to "encourage" someone to move or to intervene on behalf of someone else. I was not a believer in these "tools" until I had one used on me, then I got respect for it really fast, enough to dedicate my right back pocket in civvies to one.

Dan
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KAVU

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2004, 04:34:59 AM »

I don't look at the Kubaton as a pain compliance device and I don't envision using the thing to establish "Wrist Lock #3". They are fist loads, plain and simple. I'd rather hit someone with a manufactured implement than use my fist, all things considered.

I carry a small Surefire rather than a dedicated 'pocketstick'. In the dark edges, pre-SF, I carried a bright blue MiniMag-Lite for the same reason.
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Heath

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2004, 12:50:07 PM »

Besides being against the law... and yes, i would use one if i had one..but..i worry about joe or jane out on the street that has one and never stress trains to get it out..now they are standing there with their hand in their pocket or drop it...fodder for the fiends!!! 

on the other hand..it does make a great impact aid if used correctly...and quickly
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Trembula

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2004, 08:25:16 PM »

Wouldn't anything short of a knockout blow from a "palmstick" be "pain compliance" of a sort?  ;)

Sometimes the bad guy just needs a beat down, other times a poke or pinch, and sometimes a wristy-twisty thing.

It seems to me that a "palmstick"-like device used for self-defense would be best utilized on an unsuspecting opponent. The whole "stop, don't move, I've got a kubaton!" routine would probably backfire. An example of a more likely scenario... a little suprise "bone pressure" on someone's hands when they get you in a rear bear hug, then a few "pain compliance" blows to their temple, back of neck and then dancing an Irish Jig on their downed body.

For the LEO/Bouncer, etc. a covert "static" employment could come in handy using it as a miniature "pry-bar" to encourage people to move a certain way when they are passively resisting.

Dan
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Hock

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2010, 10:37:27 PM »

Here is a whole, free outline with photos on the subject

http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/product447.html
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 05:15:04 PM by Hock »
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redhawk44357

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2010, 05:13:44 AM »

Here is a whole, free outline with photos on the subject

http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/product447.html

    I went to the page, Where do i click for the download?
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Hock

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Re: The "pocket stick" or "Kubotan"
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2010, 10:15:28 AM »

You have to sign into the page like you are actually buying something, but you are not, its free...finish up the steps and on the last page there is a download button in the text on that page...

Hock
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