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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • May 22, 2012, 08:40:54 AM
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Author Topic: low light combatives  (Read 796 times)

Yuriy

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low light combatives
« on: March 14, 2006, 04:17:32 AM »

Could you give me some advice on preparation to the fight in the dark?
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Kentbob

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2006, 06:47:41 AM »

  Well...from a military perspective, I would say by some sort of flashlight.  Preferably a "tactical" flashlight, by which I mean one that is small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, and can be turned on and off by pushing a button.  Or, you could by a set of night vision goggles.  The flashlight would be cheaper, though.
  Then, find a way to simulate lowlight conditions, and start practicing your techniques, incorporating the flashlight into them in some manner.  Use it to blind, distract, strike, whichever.  I'm assuming that you are talking about low light, not fighting in pitch black darkness.  Cause if its pitch black, just invest in a blindfold for training.  That is about all the advice I have.


Kent
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misshinryu

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2006, 07:10:46 AM »

Last night, we worked the bo outside with very low light condition.
We started off slow, then picked up the pace as our vision adjusted. Even then, judging distance was difficult. We were doing bo kumite, so no one wanted to get whacked by a big stick, so be careful.
For those of us who do not have night vision goggles; we also practice a kata called, kusanku, which teaches us night fighting concepts. Some of these are; stay low and look for silouets, shielding the eye to block excessive light that may ruin your night vision, the way the hands move to keep your center covered, use of sound to decieve position are just some that I can think of.
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Mike Steele
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2006, 07:21:09 AM »

Simple, practice in the dark, with strobe lighting, etc.  With the use of the flashlight make sure you are using it less frequent if your opponent has a firearm.  Every time you turn on the flashlight, you send a signal that tells your enemy where to shoot!

Ciao

Joe
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Bri Thai

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2006, 08:04:53 AM »

Mick Coup (C2 - Core Combatives) as an incredibly simple technique called "indexing." 

Imagine trying to punch a guy who is bobbing and weaving?  Can be difficult.  With indexing you can hit him every time with your eyes closed - guaranteed.

So, in darkness, or if you've been temp (or even permanently) blinded you can still give him grief.

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Hock

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2006, 09:00:11 AM »

This is a real deep subject, especially if you package it in and around modern flashlights. As is the case in modern police and military training. There is so much information on this and professionals take 2 and 3 full day courses and often walk away happy they did!

Through the years I have been on a 6 hour class and have co-hosted and helped organize and ramrod probably 15 or 20 of these courses. Also, we usually have low-light/no-light gunfights at our 4 day combat camps.

In London once, in a huge, trashed-out, multi-floor, building Hubbard found, looked like a left-over from WWII bombing, we did an entire sims course on shooting in low-light and no light in this place. War gaming it all out. Pretty awesome. Put on your flashlight in that one? You could be dead in a second.

Show of hands...how many times have I just turned off the lights in the middle of any hand, stick, knife and gun practice. I often flick off in parts of the room. All the room. etc. But, if the room has windows and it is daytime, this is useless. 

And there are huge lists of tips (and yes...those police and military tips are in Gun 2 chapter in my Training Mission Two book  ...sorry for the plug again...but there is really is quite a number of them.) So Yuriy, you might try-
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/product4.html

The book has the largest list of tips and advice you'll find- I know the hard way because I have had to research everyone else's and collect the tips.

Many other books on this subject are just often disguised catalogs for the latest flashlight companies. Giant print. Thin.

Basic "indexing"
...as mentioned has been called many things through time and one tip is simply using your body parts (usually your hand?) to guess where the the rest of the body is. So, If you grab head hair-the height or your body while standing-guess where his neck circumference is? It is very instinctive once you get the point. If you just hear him close by? Low punches, or stabs to the torso? But you know what the word index means and can figure that out.

But is to be REALLY, dark-dark-dark for that, like a windowless, dark basement, to get caught in these pitch black situations. Or you need to be blinded WITHOUT the distracting pain of having just been blinded, to function.

Tactical training. Practical. Situational. Positional. Figure out what is likely to happen in your life, in your world. Crisis rehearse that!  Then work out from there to the least possibilities. Many fundamentals cross-over.

For most people, a scary trip to their basement, their kitchen, or a nighttime, roadside, car break down are good places to start. 

Hock

Joe Hubbard

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2006, 09:56:18 AM »

Bobbing and weaving and having a hard time punching?  That's what God made knees for!

Ciao

Joe
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JimH

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2006, 11:56:01 AM »

For very Low to zero light conditions without a flashlight I am with Misshinryu:
Move to the walls or out side edges of your space,follow the walls around till you can see shadows or your eyes adjust a bit,stay away from the center areas of the space as movemnet is more easily seen here,heard here and you are open from all angles.

If you cannot see the opponent,the opponent cannot see you,you work by sound and touch.

If you have a flashlight make sure to use it to spot the opponent and to shine it in their eyes to disorient them and move to attack.

If you operate in a low light (dusk or dawn type light) then stay to the shadows use the shadows as concealment and vantage points to find ,watch and attack your opponent from.
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Bri Thai

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2006, 12:57:21 PM »

Bobbing and weaving and having a hard time punching?  That's what God made knees for!

Ciao

Joe

Maybe against some, but a skilful guy will move only enough to make your shot miss.  He won't be leaning over that far at all in my view.
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2006, 03:36:52 PM »

Bollocks!

Ciao

Joe
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misshinryu

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2006, 08:00:03 PM »

...one more thing. See out through the corner of your eye, do not stare into the darkness.
Eat lots of carrotts :)
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Mike Steele
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Nick Hughes

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2006, 08:01:37 PM »

Joe,

For god's sake man don't beat round the bush, waffling and rambling and going on...get to the point, say what you really mean ;D

N
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
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Nick Hughes

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2006, 08:05:53 PM »

In fairness to our original poster Yuriy I think it would behoove us to determine whether he's talking about a gun fight or a fist fight.

If I'm up at night trying to found out what just went "bump" I'm taking my Glock and my Surefire.  If I'm working on a Close Protection detail I'm going to have gat and light, if I'm a police officer on patrol I'm going to have gat and light.

If I'm a regular guy walking out of the movies though and I get jumped in the parking deck by some guy I told to shut up in the movies I may not have either weapon or light.  If I've flown out to California and I wake up to an intruder in the hotel room I won't have either again.

So which scenario are we talking about?

N
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

Bri Thai

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2006, 03:19:43 AM »

Bollocks!

Ciao

Joe

Thanks for the detailed retort.  I understand now.
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Hock

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Re: low light combatives
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2006, 08:03:20 AM »

I do know some highly trained folks who always have a small, expensive flashlight, gun or not. I even know people who will not get on a plane without a small, plastic flashlight.

I have probably searched, without any exaggeration here, some 1,000-plus or so homes, buildings, streets, alleys, fields, factories, you name it. The differences in and outside of them are diverse. Many at night, the classic, between 6 and 6 (6am and 6pm).  Looking for armed and unarmed people-we knew that for sure later)

Too often there are no walls to find easily, or sides, or well, it just gets so damn strange. (look for a guy in the dark within a few hundred head of cattle! Then fight him down in there, or a theft gang in a large railroad yard full of empty box cars) You almost need a practice course for each environment.

Too, there is almost always some kind of light available, allowing you to see at least something. This is a common point made in the beginning of all training courses.

Positional. Situational. But, there are some general tactics and strategies that do cross-apply.

Hock

 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2006, 08:24:55 AM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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