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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • May 22, 2012, 08:45:03 AM
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Author Topic: Ridiculous  (Read 1503 times)

TwoGun

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  • Posts: 124
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2006, 08:20:45 AM »

Well it has become clear to me that  you will not be convinced, that you have sincere emotional investment in the issue and no amount of logic, facts, statistics or common sense will sway you.

While I salute your conviction, I fear I will always see them as misguided. Perhaps you are correct, the people of your country are too irresponsible, to immature, to morally bankrupt to be trusted to own firearm.  I will leave that for you to determine.  However in my country I will trust my fellow Americans until they have shown that no longer deserve that trust.  And we will remain citizens rather than subjects.

All the best.
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Bri Thai

  • Guest
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2006, 01:07:18 PM »

Theres over 60 million people in the UK.  Is quoting a few violent attacks supposed to mean something?   ???

You have that wondeful right to carry firearms that you are so precious with, yet still people get killed - day in, day out.  Cops, grannies, kids etc. etc.

So, what's your point?
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Shane

  • Level 3
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  • Posts: 229
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2006, 01:40:38 PM »

Dude you should run for office. . You are very good at debate, you must of annoyed the crap out of your parents. But no offense brother just my two cents.  ;D
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Scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue. Realize the strength, move on.    -Henry Rollins

Bri Thai

  • Guest
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2006, 03:47:58 PM »

None taken.    ;D

If I showed this to my parents they'd piss their pants laughing!  It is so true!  Haw haw haw!
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TwoGun

  • Level 3
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  • Posts: 124
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2006, 04:43:29 PM »

A few?  Well that's not what some of your own contrymen say.  Here is an article from London Today, written by David Taylor.

"England has the worst crime record in the industrialised world, according to alarming findings published today.

The figures, which are a blow to Tony Blair's crusade against crime, show there are 58 offences for every 100 inhabitants of England and Wales each year.

That puts us joint top of the world league with Australia, with a record far worse than America, which has an annual rate of 43 crimes per 100 inhabitants.

The findings come from the international crime victims' survey, produced jointly every three years by academics in Holland and statisticians from the Home Office.

About 2,000 people in 17 different countries were surveyed about their experiences of crime in 1999. People were asked whether they had been victims of any of a range of 11 offences from violent and sexual assault to car crime, burglary and theft of bicycles.

A total of 26 per cent of the people surveyed in England and Wales had been victims - some of two or more offences.

The last time the survey was carried out, England and Wales also topped the league with 61 offences per 100 people. We have retained that unwanted top position - even though rates have fallen under Labour - because the rest of the major industrial nations have experienced a matching drop.

The study says that the percentage of people who were victims of crime in a single year is "a simple but robust" way of comparing records on crime. The latest figures show the countries fall into three bands:

• England and Wales, Australia, The Netherlands and Sweden had victim rates above 24 per cent;

• Canada, Scotland, Denmark, Poland, Belgium, France and the US had rates between 20 and 24 per cent;

• Spain, Switzerland, Portugal, Japan and Northern Ireland all had rates under 20 per cent.

Home Secretary Jack Straw conceded that the figures were bad news. "Crime may be falling," he said, "but it's still too high and we have a great deal more to do to make Britain a safer place to live. Ours is a long-term strategy to bring crime down. Considerable success has already been achieved in reducing burglary and vehicle crime."

A small consolation for the Government is the survey's conclusion that when it comes to caring for victims, Britain provides the best service.

But on individual categories of crime we still have the misfortune to lead the world - the risk of having a car stolen is highest here and our homes are more vulnerable to burglars than any other nation's apart from Australia.

Rates for robbery and sexual assault are also joint highest in England and Wales, with more than three per cent of people being victims."

This is not coming from me, I'm only showing you what some of your own people are reporting about crime in England.  It sounds like a lot more than a "few violent attacks".  In fact it sounds like just what we have been saying.  You are not safe by disarming the law abiding because the criminals will still have thier guns and they much prefer unarmed victims. 

However I have no doubt that you will stay true to your convictions.
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Professor

  • In your house drinking your coffee
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  • Posts: 2302
  • The Warlord
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2006, 08:21:06 PM »

Theres over 60 million people in the UK.  Is quoting a few violent attacks supposed to mean something?   ???

You have that wondeful right to carry firearms that you are so precious with, yet still people get killed - day in, day out.  Cops, grannies, kids etc. etc.

So, what's your point?


ALL LAWFUL PEOPLE MUST BE PROVIDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES WITH AN APPROPRIATE TOOL TO STOP THE ATTACK.

Please, put yourself in their position and tell me what you would have done against the attacker?

Second, put your mother/father/grandmother in same situation and tell me what you would have them do to stop the attack?

Third, what is the problem with allowing law bidding citizens to protect themselves with an appropriate amount of force to deter the attack?   

YOUR VIEW OF THE WORLD IS VERY, VERY NARROW AND YOUR DRIBBLE IS GETTING REALLY OLD.   



Debate is counterpoint......trolling is something else all together.

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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Milldog1776

  • Guest
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2006, 10:32:48 PM »

Theres over 60 million people in the UK.  Is quoting a few violent attacks supposed to mean something?   ???

You have that wondeful right to carry firearms that you are so precious with, yet still people get killed - day in, day out.  Cops, grannies, kids etc. etc.

So, what's your point?


ALL LAWFUL PEOPLE MUST BE PROVIDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES WITH AN APPROPRIATE TOOL TO STOP THE ATTACK.

Please, put yourself in their position and tell me what you would have done against the attacker?

Second, put your mother/father/grandmother in same situation and tell me what you would have them do to stop the attack?

Third, what is the problem with allowing law bidding citizens to protect themselves with an appropriate amount of force to deter the attack?   

YOUR VIEW OF THE WORLD IS VERY, VERY NARROW AND YOUR DRIBBLE IS GETTING REALLY OLD.   



Debate is counterpoint......trolling is something else all together.



WOW! "The Troll Card!"

This is getting serious! ;D
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Bri Thai

  • Guest
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2006, 12:30:10 AM »

........and ridiculous.

I've been here ages, made many posts, met Joe and Hock and bought products (giving my full name and address of course).

The allegation of "trolling" is indicative of the lack of depth to your argument.  But it did make me laugh, so thanks for that!

 ;D
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tlouis

  • Level 3
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  • Posts: 196
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2006, 05:40:11 AM »

Interesting debate. It would seem UK's extremely high crime rate yet relatively low murder rate would support the position that gun control reduces murder. one other thing. it is so hard to compare different societies and cultures when it comes to things like crime, education, health care etc... Just a thought.
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TwoGun

  • Level 3
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2006, 12:05:03 PM »

More material.  Not the areas that are in bold print.

Gun control myths
Thomas Sowell
November 26, 2002

Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm of Bentley College deserves some sort of special prize for taking on the thankless task of talking sense on a subject where nonsense is deeply entrenched and fiercely dogmatic. In her recently published book, "Guns and Violence," Professor Malcolm examines the history of firearms, gun control laws and violent crime in England. What makes this more than an exercise in history is its relevance to current controversies over gun control in America.

Gun control zealots love to make highly selective international comparisons of gun ownership and murder rates. But Joyce Lee Malcolm points out some of the pitfalls in that approach. For example, the murder rate in New York City has been more than five times that of London for two centuries -- and during most of that time neither city had any gun control laws.

In 1911, New York state instituted one of the most severe gun control laws in the United States, while serious gun control laws did not begin in England until nearly a decade later. But New York City still continued to have far higher murder rates than London.

If we are serious about the role of guns and gun control as factors in differing rates of violence between countries, then we need to do what history professor Joyce Lee Malcolm does -- examine the history of guns and violence. In England, as she points out, over the centuries "violent crime continued to decline markedly at the very time that guns were becoming increasingly available."

England's Bill of Rights in 1688 was quite unambiguous that the right of a private individual to be armed was an individual right, independently of any collective right of militias. Guns were as freely available to Englishmen as to Americans, on into the early 20th century.

Nor was gun control in England a response to any firearms murder crisis. Over a period of three years near the end of the 19th century, "there were only 59 fatalities from handguns in a population of nearly 30 million people," according to Professor Malcolm. "Of these, 19 were accidents, 35 were suicides and only three were homicides -- an average of one a year."

The rise of the interventionist state in early 20th century England included efforts to restrict ownership of guns. After the First World War, gun control laws began restricting the possession of firearms. Then, after the Second World War, these restrictions grew more severe, eventually disarming the civilian population of England -- or at least the law-abiding part of it.

It was during this period of severe restrictions on owning firearms that crime rates in general, and the murder rate in particular, began to rise in England. "As the number of legal firearms have dwindled, the numbers of armed crimes have risen," Professor Malcolm points out.

In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s, there were more than a hundred times as many. In England, as in the United States, drastic crackdowns on gun ownership by law-abiding citizens were accompanied by ever greater leniency to criminals. In both countries, this turned out to be a formula for disaster.

While England has not yet reached the American level of murders, it has already surpassed the United States in rates of robbery and burglary. Moreover, in recent years the murder rate in England has been going up under still more severe gun control laws, while the murder rate in the United States has been going down as more and more states have allowed private citizens to carry concealed weapons -- and have begun locking up more criminals. **(Just wait, they will surpass the US)

In both countries, facts have no effect whatever on the dogmas of gun control zealots. The fact that most guns used to murder people in England were not legally purchased has no effect on their faith in gun control laws there, any more than faith in such laws here is affected by the fact that the gun used by the recent Beltway snipers was not purchased legally either.

In England as in America, sensational gun crimes have been seized upon and used politically to promote crackdowns on gun ownership by law-abiding citizens, while doing nothing about criminals. American zealots for the Brady bill say nothing about the fact that the man who shot James Brady and tried to assassinate President Reagan has been out walking the streets on furlough.


Food for thought
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arnold

  • the king of cool
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 3254
  • oh that will get you killed
Re: Ridiculous
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2006, 06:18:48 AM »

Ah, we gave him the opportunity to stay on the bus, but it looks like he jumped off. One question I have for our many viewers, would you want this individual to defend your wife, sister, mother, father, daughter, etc? Armed to the teeth with his trusty all conditions umbrella and his popeil pocket fisherman, we could all sleep better at night. HA! This post has had me call my local gun dealer who is having a major sale.
Gonna get me a six shooter and a new cowboy hat, and do quick draws in the mirror. Then maybe I can be as fast as my reflection!
Professor, call Gahlen, he is moving a few items you would be interested in. And there's the horn, time to get back on the bus. Gotta make sure I close and holster my pocket fisherman.
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I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!
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