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[Kentbob]

I was at my buddy's Kuntao club the other day, and I was playing with some of the instructors when the head instructor came up and started talking with us.  He made the comment that he could tell that what I was doing was stick based, because I was meeted all the sumbradas stick to stick, as opposed to stick to flesh, or something like that.  Then he demonstrated how in his art they either pass the blow, block stick to flesh, or turn the blade and block with the flat of the blade.  Now, say I have my barong in hand.  Is it really a good idea to try and block with the flat of the blade, as opposed to edge to edge?  I know that it will ding the edges pretty good if we go edge to edge.  I don't want to get into the habit of trying to pass every strike either, and sometimes you just can't hit the arm, it seems like.  So the best thing out of these seems to be block with the flat of the blade. 
Any comments?

Kent

[Hock]

That is probably one family's approach to doing sumbraba.

In the Phillipines, with dull bolos, the GMs at the various camps dill drills and fought. Also edge to edge.

One-they like the sparks!

Two- it takes a lot of skiill turning to the flat side every half-second of sumbrada impact. Takes a lot skll.

For the Samurai, only some, not a majority I don't think, a minority turn their katanas to the flat side for blocking. So not even most of the masters of the sword turn their blades to the flat side for blocking.

Katanas are often made proudly to withstand the edge to edge impact.

Machettes are real cheap. Get a new one.
A machete fight may only last a few seconds anyway.
I say ding on.

What's the big deal?
Hock

[Professor]

I've never liked blocking with the side of the blade

1) we use our own blade/stick/knife hand to the side of an opponents blade to disarm.....Why would I put myself in a disarm situation?

2)  If you want to break your blade on a rock.....how would you hit it (flat side)...

3)  If you wanted to break a blade in a vice.....how would you bend it (flat side)....

4)  Chip the blade?  No problemo....serrated edge.

Finally, I'm going to be blocking to the arm/hand in most cases as I rush in/out.


Just don't like it.....bad medicine all around.

[Adventure]

I watched a live demo of 2 barongs hitting edge to edge & they stuck together. Had to be pulled apart pretty hard. I thick if you are the one who does not know that can & will happen then you just may give the other guy the advantage.

In that seminar I went to we were able to pick up the suttle movement it takes to deflect with the side of the blade & you were to diagonal cant to the blade at the same time to hepl it deflect the blow.

[Professor]

I watched a live demo of 2 barongs hitting edge to edge & they stuck together. Had to be pulled apart pretty hard. I thick if you are the one who does not know that can & will happen then you just may give the other guy the advantage.

In that seminar I went to we were able to pick up the suttle movement it takes to deflect with the side of the blade & you were to diagonal cant to the blade at the same time to hepl it deflect the blow.

If I'm fighting against a blade.....that's a good outcome to me.   

Be careful watching live demos:  They are wanting to hit blade and keep the flow going.....not to kill each other.    Take a stick....do a demo -- and try to kill each other.....and it will become clear that there isn't much of a demo.

[Trainer]

I assume we are talking blade to blade for the sake of the art as opposed to any real life senarios?

[Hock]

I am happy just to block the damn thing.

Too much artsy work for me to ALWAYS worry about canting or turning the blade to the flat side. Jeez...what expectations.

Ding away.

Kentbob, my advice is when you go back, just smile, be a courteuous guest and say "thanks, sir." That is just the way "that house" does it.


Be careful watching live demos:  They are wanting to hit blade and keep the flow going.....not to kill each other.    Take a stick....do a demo -- and try to kill each other.....and it will become clear that there isn't much of a demo

Yeah, remember my lecture on the safe-training range, and the reality deep training range.

Hock

[Kentbob]

I assume we are talking blade to blade for the sake of the art as opposed to any real life senarios?

Yes, mostly.  BUT I don't want to do something for an art, that just isn't necessary.  If you understand what I mean. 

Thanks for the advice and input, Hock, Professor, and everyone else.

Kent

[Crazyguywithasword]

This is an extremely hotly debated topic in WMA circles....this thread would be 10 pages long on some forums....

[Hock]

This is an extremely hotly debated topic in WMA circles....this thread would be 10 pages long on some forums....
 
 
 By WMA what do you mean Weapons martial arts? Western Martial arts?

Hock

[Crazyguywithasword]

WMA means western martial arts, yes. Its used by people who do historical swordsmanship (its what I used to do, its how I got my moniker). - Nick

[Hock]

Does this problem seem to happen more with-

Cheap swords?

Bigger than 14 inch blade swords?

Is heft-plus-poor-quality produce more of this problem?

Hock

[Kentbob]

Does this problem seem to happen more with-

Cheap swords?

Bigger than 14 inch blade swords?

Is heft-plus-poor-quality produce more of this problem?

Hock

Well, the instructor referred to "family swords", that had been in the family for generations.  Now, I don't know much about that sort of thing, but as I think you said, Hock, bolos are cheap.  So, I don't really know. 



Kent

[Irishtacticts]

This is an awsome topic.

My Instructer carries a Machettie in his car. he said he uses it for weed wacken.

so it gos to show you if you mug some one while there doing yard work they might cut your head clean off.

[Escrime Anglais]

Katanas are often made proudly to withstand the edge to edge impact.

I must humbly disagree here, Hock.


Katana, like virtually all other Asian swords, are differentially heat-treated--i.e., the edge is super-hard, and the back is soft, to keep the thing from shattering.  Parrying with the edge of a katana will result in very bad chipping of the blade.

With most later European swords, the weapon is given a stiff "spring" temper throughout the blade, so the edge is tougher (but it also needs to be sharpened more frequently because of this).  Also, later European swords typically feature a blunt forte, and this is where parrying is performed anyway, so edge-to-edge parrying is not a big deal.  Edge parrying was certainly the norm in Western European cut-and-thrust systems (broadsword, backsword, cavalry saber, naval cutlass, spadroon, & duelling saber).