SR>>I certainly cannot argue etymology with you, and definitely not in German. I am certain that various similar sounding words meant all kinds of things. The rapier I was referring to is the thin, ~ 3 feet long blade of the late renaissance, often used with a dagger in the off hand.
The rapier you describe, and the
rappir of the Germans, existed side-by-side, during the late 16th and early 17th centuries A.D./C.E. The German
rappir, like the Italian
spada that it was basically a copy of, could be used either alone, or with a large parrying dagger of the
pugnale Bolognese variety. In some Western European countries, the small hand buckler, as well as the larger target or targe, were alternate secondaries to the sword.
SR>>The flexible one was for swords masters as a backup weapon, not a soldiers primary weapon. Kind of like the Hoplite warrior of ancient Greece carried a sword as a backup in case the spear failed. The other point is that Asians didn't develop the chain mail or plate armor in the same way westerners did. Lots of linked plates of bamboo or metal tied together with silk or moveable plates of bamboo. Lots of chinks. You might stand a chance against an armed assailant with a dueling sword. Try that against a medeaval European knight or his Roman predecessor and you would just have your head handed you.
The only "bamboo" armor I'm aware of is that used on the
do (torso guard) of modern kendo armor. The Japanese used lamellar armor of iron plates laced together either with silk cord or leather thongs. Various types of lamellar armor & brigandines were used in Continental Asia as well.
SR>>As I have heard things, the Japanese specialized in the folded steel technique that was the Asian equivalent of Damascus steel. I think the Chinese versions were hammer forged. At least, that is the tradition I have heard from the Lung Chuan armory which claims a very ancient lineage. In any event, you can purchase blades which the vendors claim are authentic, ancient chinese designs in which the blade looks like the curve of a katana but instead of the round guard it has an "S" shaped guard and no wound laquer handle. Within the Chinese martial arts community, it is accepted that the blade design of the Japanese Katana is Chinese, but the metallurgy is Japanese.
The Japanese specialized in folded steel, but both they and the Chinese (indeed, virtually all Asian smiths) made use of differential heat treatment. The refractory clay method was actually pioneered by the Chinese during the early Tang Dynasty, and was then adopted by the Japanese. This method generally fell out of favor in China by the Song Dynasty, but the Japanese continued to use it, due to the limited iron ore available to them.
SR>>And as the medeaval era progressed through the renaissance, the swords people carried for daily use generally got lighter and thinner. Who wanted to walk through town carrying a Gross Messer or a Claymore?
Soldiers and city guards did exactly that.
The period I was referring to is the same one you are referring to--the Renaissance. Two-handed swords were used by city guards in the late 16th century, during the heyday of the rapier you spoke of earlier.
Maybe if one was out adventuring, but in the town of ones residence just doing general business and making social calls? I'm sorry, but when you look at late renaissance portraits of noblemen, they aren't pictured with huge swords. They had thin rapier/foil/Jin like dueling swords. One can imagine that is what they went "out on the town" wearing.
I guess you need to look at more Renaissance artwork, because the issue isn't that simple. In fact, a close examination of 16th and 17th century pictorial sources reveals folks using a wide variety of edged weapons in both the civilian and military contexts--thin-bladed rapiers, stouter cut-and-thrust swords, basket-hilted broadswords & backswords,
messers,
sabels,
stortas, bastard swords, two-handed swords, and so forth.
As I already stated, many folks wore (and used) stouter-bladed cut-and-thrust swords like the German
rappir. A similar weapon was the
reitschwert. These had complex swept hilts like the rapier you describe, but with blades that were equally lethal with both point and edge. I was fortunate to handle an original German example during a recent trip to the Higgins Armory Museum.
English and Scottish swordsmen likewise preferred their basket-hilted broadswords and backswords (sometimes referred to as "short swords", despite often having blades upwards of 37"-40") to thin rapiers.
Separate point is that the "gentlemen adventurers" were likely of the nobility.
Indeed they were--that's what made them "gentlemen".
In the late renaissance that meant they were generally officers, not soldiers.
They were both officers
and soldiers, actually.
At Lepanto in 1571 (again, during the heyday of the thin-bladed rapier), Don Juan's flagship had some 100 gentlemen adventurers aboard. This was the climax of galley warfare, and these were all fighting men, equipped with half- or three-quarter plate armor, and fighting as assault infantry with swords, two-handed swords, half-pikes, and other polearms.
Alessandro Farnese, who was the Duke of Parma in the late 16th century, fought at Lepanto with a two-handed sword (
spadone), and he also served in the Low Countries as an
ordinary pikeman (it was not considered at all demeaning for a nobleman to serve as a pikeman, because the pike was, as the Spanish said, the
senora y reyna de las armas--i.e., the "mistress and queen of weapons"). Farnese later rose to become the Commander of the Spanish Army of Flanders, but he still preferred to fight with a stout cut-and-thrust
spada and a steel
rotella (shield).
This is different from the case of feudal Japan in which the nobility were professional warriors and served as both officer and soldier.
Yes--just like their European counterparts.
Keep in mind that those gentlemen adventurers were the Renaissance equivalent of Medieval knights. Training in the martial arts (horsemanship, fencing, wrestling, etc) was a part of their education.
Peasants weren't allowed to fight.
Actually, some Japanese peasants
were allowed to fight--the
ashigaru. During this same period (the late 16th & early 17th centuries), these peasant samurai formed important units of archers, arquebusiers, and spearmen.
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Topic: Blade to Blade, blocking with the flat? (Read 4259 times)