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  • April 26, 2018, 09:36:45 AM
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Author Topic: Blood Grooves  (Read 1956 times)

Hock

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Blood Grooves
« on: June 04, 2006, 11:42:57 AM »

Blood Grooves...
No, that is not the new name for the 9 Inch Nails. Or their latest album.

Blood Grooves on knife blades.
Needed?
Not needed?

Stories anyone?
Ideas?
Yas and Nays?

Hock

Crazyguywithasword

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 11:49:09 AM »

To tell you the truth, I hear a lot about "blood grooves" with medieval and renaissance sword work, and heres the deal on them...

Its a myth. They aren't blood grooves, they're fullers. They're suppose to lighten the blade of a weapon by removing steel from an area that is already thick so to make it lighter without comprising the weapons integrity.

The term "blood groove" comes from 19th century literature, and the writers who wrote most of that stuff tried to romanticize sword work as much as possible, so take it with a large grain (or two) of salt.

As far as fullers being a necessity? Not really, especially on a knife, as the weight of the weapon really doesn't matter when its that small. With swords I tend to prefer blades that have them because they usually feel a bit livelier in the hand but it depends on the type of the blade, the hilt, how good the swordsmith is, but in the end its all about how it feels to you and what you can do with it.
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Escrime Anglais

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 01:15:40 PM »

Crazyguy summed up the issue nicely--i.e., "blood groove" is a misnomer, in terms of describing the "gutter" found on some examples of the arme blanche.  It is, as he stated, actually known as a fuller, and is more pertinent to swords as opposed to knives.
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"Perfect fight standeth upon both cut and thrust." --George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence, 1599

Crazyguywithasword

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2006, 01:18:12 PM »

Yeah people used to say 18th and 19th century bayonets were triangular with blood grooves to cause a more vicious wound and that they would be easier to pull out once inserted into the foe. The truth? Triangular edgeless bayonets are less breakable and dont bend thus needing to be replaced less.
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Escrime Anglais

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2006, 01:27:27 PM »

Yeah people used to say 18th and 19th century bayonets were triangular with blood grooves to cause a more vicious wound and that they would be easier to pull out once inserted into the foe. The truth? Triangular edgeless bayonets are less breakable and dont bend thus needing to be replaced less.

Yeah, that myth always cracked me up.

The triangular cross-section of bayonets and smallswords is simply one that is strong, stiff, and light--optimized for what these weapons are intended for--i.e., thrusting.
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"Perfect fight standeth upon both cut and thrust." --George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence, 1599

Kentbob

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 01:06:59 PM »

I thought that the placement of the fuller also helped to strengthen the blade, and was used more and more as advances in armor came about.  How close am I here?  As to fullers on knives, I have to agree.  Its more of an aesthetic thing, I believe, and gives big bowies more of the Rambo look.  My two cents, anyway.


Kent
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Escrime Anglais

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2006, 01:09:32 PM »

I thought that the placement of the fuller also helped to strengthen the blade, and was used more and more as advances in armor came about.  How close am I here?

Kent

You're pretty close.

A fuller helps to lighten a blade, while retaining strength--think in terms of a steel I-beam.

But it doesn't really have anything to do with armor.  Aside for specialized swords like the estoc, swords were never meant for tackling armor--not European plate armor, anyways.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 01:11:24 PM by Escrime Anglais »
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Kentbob

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2006, 01:18:49 PM »

Well, I was thinking more about chain and leather.  You're right, swords aren't meant for plate, only axes and hammer, and things that bash more than cut.  Which begs a couple of questions.  Didn't the Samurai wear plate armor?  If so, how did their swords hold up to it?


Kent
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Escrime Anglais

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Re: Blood Grooves
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2006, 01:32:15 PM »

Well, I was thinking more about chain and leather.  You're right, swords aren't meant for plate, only axes and hammer, and things that bash more than cut.  Which begs a couple of questions.  Didn't the Samurai wear plate armor?  If so, how did their swords hold up to it?


Kent

The vast majority of Japanese armor is of the lamellar variety--i.e., small iron lames or plates linlked and/or laced together to create a flexible suit.  In most Japanese armors, the plates are laced together with silk cords, though leather thongs are sometimes used.

The Japanese never developed full plate armor of the European type, but they did incorporate solid steel European cuirasses (breastplates and backplates) and simple open helmets (like morions and burgonets) into native armors.  These were usually of Italian or Flemish manufacture, and were imported into Japan by the Portuguese and Spanish.  The resulting armors were known as nanban gusoku ("southern barbarian armors"), and were quite popular with those who could afford them.  Tokugawa Ieyasu (sp) wore one at the Battle of Segikahara in 1600.

Typically, a samurai would either aim for areas that weren't protected (eg., the armpit or inside of the arm), or would actually try to cut some of the connecting silk cords.   
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"Perfect fight standeth upon both cut and thrust." --George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence, 1599
 

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