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Author Topic: Blind, Cover Shots  (Read 4996 times)

Hock

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Blind, Cover Shots
« on: June 16, 2006, 07:00:28 AM »

Last night I watched Histories Mysteries on the Discover channel and they went to the South American spot where Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid were killed, trying to unwrap some questions about "did they survive?" or "did one of them survive?"

There were some set-up facts they could replicate, such as the number of military and lawmen on the wall in front of the house. With the use of simulated ammo, trained shooters tried to escape the house and fight these positions. There was no back door so they had to blast their way out of the front.

Well, they made several runs at it, improving strategy with each failed attempt to escape. The authorties, in cover proistions were hardly ever hit, but the outlaws died and died and died. Once in awhile, one would make it to the wall, but what happened to him next? Against those fortified troops?

I don't care if Butch or Sundance lived, what I did enjoy were typical shooters suddenly having to problem-solve an interactive gun fight situation. And having to make several runs and evolving a strategy.

If they just charged a bunch of set-up paper targets on a range, they would innocently think that they did petty good! They might even continue to practice and practive honing their skills in this exact format, say for a shooting competition.

This sets up a false sense of security and success and unfortunately-this level, this type of achievement is the current standard of practice in this and many countries.

The next level however is doing this while being shot at. This cleans up your act and slaps your face with a painful dose of reality.

One more lesson re-learned and reenforced that is not done on a range?
The blind cover shot ot two, fired aimlessly at the enemy in hopes of them ducking and flinching, upon which the charge may begin.

<<<>>>
The Blind, Cover Shot
My question is, other than military fire and mauever courses (where I learned this concept decades ago) has anyone been taught his in a civilian or police range? I have not been shown this since the military for two reasons, I think...

1) The gigantic fact that an unaimed round might go somewhere unintended.
2) Wasted score points

Hock
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 07:02:29 AM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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TAC

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2006, 12:04:53 PM »

I was once watching some Afghanistan footage on the news with an ex-secial forces guy. He was making joking comments on the way the Taliban were aiming their AKs around the corner of this boulder and just spraying away blindly. It wasn't like a conversation about blind cover shots or anything, but from that I got the impression that unaimed shots are a no-no. 

However, it sounds like a perfectly fine tactic to me. Perhaps he was just making fun of the way the Taliban and other fighters NEVER use their weapons properly?

Sharif
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Professor

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2006, 12:33:52 PM »

Quote

The Blind, Cover Shot
My question is, other than military fire and mauever courses (where I learned this concept decades ago) has anyone been taught his in a civilian or police range? I have not been shown this since the military for two reasons, I think...

1) The gigantic fact that an unaimed round might go somewhere unintended.
2) Wasted score points

Hock

If I carry a waist pack, I carry approximately 33 rounds of ammunition in magazines and the gun.   The inability to carry a "load" of ammo is a deciding factor in spray and pray / blind fire.   If I'm at my truck, there's an extra 100 rounds in .45, about 50 in .22 for the 10/22 and Mark III that are in the lock box.....

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Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2006, 12:49:27 PM »

I was once watching some Afghanistan footage on the news with an ex-secial forces guy. He was making joking comments on the way the Taliban were aiming their AKs around the corner of this boulder and just spraying away blindly. It wasn't like a conversation about blind cover shots or anything, but from that I got the impression that unaimed shots are a no-no

Probaby have to take that completely in context of what that shooter was doing before and after, or what they looked like they were trying to train.

-Was the shooter clearing the path with suppressive fire and leading an advance?Ancient strategy.

-Delaying an attack? Rest assured if these SF guys were advancing on the building corner and a Taliban sprayed about 14 wild rounds wild way? It would screw up and delay their advance on that corner for a bit, and the Taliban was not exposed to return SF gunfire, for to step out an aim and fire? Is to step out an get shot at.

- or just trying to shoot specific targets? Which case? That would not be good. Stuff like that.

These principles are universal gun fighting rules. Military knows them. Police and citizens usually don't.

All has to be taken in context. But, the extremists videos are full of tactical mistakes, though, the biggest ones the experts chuckle about include the small slits for eye vision on their masks. The slits really inhibit their vision and they must violently jerk their head around like children in halloween masks to see waht bigger eye-holes would allow them easily.

The Zarkawi video released of him recently, shooting that automatic weapon showed he could not clear a simple jam and he carelessly muzzled the comrade beside him with the barrel. Pretty revealing.

Still, the bastards prove to be a real pain-in-the-ass!

Hock

Mike Spight

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2006, 04:26:48 AM »

Hi everyone; my first post since being invited here by Nick Hughes.

Other than IDPA, where proper use of cover is a big deal if the ROs are doing their job, the only way to really get a feel for the dynamics of a gunfight (w/o engaing in one) is force on force training using Simunitions.  they are available in just about every common Mil/LE handgun and carbine/rifle caliber.

Nothing like something that really does hurt to provide you with instant feedback regarding the effectiveness of your tactics and use of cover.

I will offer that IOT be effective, even suppressive fire needs to be aimed.  IMO, blind firing around cover is, not an effective way to suppress IOT allow your mates to maneuver.
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Mike

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2006, 07:37:06 AM »

Hi everyone; my first post since being invited here by Nick Hughes.

Other than IDPA, where proper use of cover is a big deal if the ROs are doing their job, the only way to really get a feel for the dynamics of a gunfight (w/o engaing in one) is force on force training using Simunitions.  they are available in just about every common Mil/LE handgun and carbine/rifle caliber.

Nothing like something that really does hurt to provide you with instant feedback regarding the effectiveness of your tactics and use of cover.

I will offer that IOT be effective, even suppressive fire needs to be aimed.  IMO, blind firing around cover is, not an effective way to suppress IOT allow your mates to maneuver.

Welcome to the Nuthouse!
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Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Milldog1776

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2006, 12:55:40 PM »

Hi everyone; my first post since being invited here by Nick Hughes.



Any friend of Nick's is a friend of ours. Welcome!
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Chuck Burnett

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2006, 06:02:44 PM »

We touch on the concept(and drawbacks) of "suppressive" fire in our shotgun courses during the patterning segment.
At some distance the spread of a buckshot pattern expands to the point that few if any of the pellets will hit a human sized target.
Also, 50 grain round pellets start to lose velocity (and thus energy) fairly quickly. A pellet or two hitting an assailant at 50 yards may not be incapacitating.

So, I'm taking fire from an attacker outside the effective range of my buckshot loaded boomstick. (Or worse yet, I've been out hunting and I'm loaded up with #6 shot. >:( )

Should I pound a couple rounds at him as I bail for cover?

Will those pellets buzzing by his head or drawing blood have an effect on his ability to shoot straight?
Very likely.

Is that effect out weighed by the risk of collateral damage?
Depends on the situation.
What's the background behind my attacker? A concrete building? A schoolyard?

Collateral damage is not unexpected in warfare but less acceptable in the civilian world.

Do I have cover nearby or a quick way to unass the area?
If I puncture a bystander with a stray pellet when I could have reasonably just withdrawn to cover my attorney gets a new sports car.
 
Chuck
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Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2006, 06:31:37 PM »

I will offer that IOT be effective, even suppressive fire needs to be aimed.  IMO, blind firing around cover is, not an effective way to suppress IOT allow your mates to maneuver.

There is an obvious time and a perfect place for so-called, blind fire. It would be pretty easy to sit around and think of numerous times when blind cover shots might be dangerous for your friendlies. Sure. BUT....It has been done successfully in situations through history numerous, NUMEROUS times. Plus it has been in many training doctrines.

Just one example Vietman sniper fire from a building. You know the window. You lead with blind shots at the window, hoping the sniper:

a) has no real body target to shot back at,
b) ducks!

Then you step around and advance. This was done numerous, numerous times. Advancement initiated by blind cover shots to flinch, distract and suppress the enemy.

Generally it has been used to shoot where the enemy just was. So that is a type of aiming. Also advancing at the "tip of the spear" against a retreating enemy that is shooting back. In terms of the "tip of the spear" advancement...In the 90s I was invited to an Marine Corp Urban Warfare city to observe training. One technigue they taught was to turn the corner while shooting, by quickly sticking your weapon out horizontal (a VERY skinny, explosive target), firing it, and then more or less, stepping up and behind it and advancing while firing. This cornering is initiated by so-called blind fire right at where the enemy was just shooting at you from.

<<<>>>

It would be hard to find any range course, probably police agency etc, DARE to mention such a tactic, It would scare the training companies insurance coverage off the table. It would scare live fire exercise coordinators to gray hair. It scares classical SWAT and team training to death. (Frankly, a lot classical team and SWAT training scares me to death. I fear and dread the day that in some Columbine-type situation, some thug pops out a shotgun or blindly auto blasts at a bunch of SWAT stacked up like toy soldiers in a hallway)

The truth does comes out in sims training - when you want to shoot an advancing party, take aim and wait for them to march into view...then, suddenly you get a series of painful rounds blasting your way from a teeny, non-body, skinny target. (Remember, you don't know they'll miss until the bullets actually go by.) Normal people duck and flinch....and maybe cuss.


***

Better to know of this trick, than have it outlawed and never mentioned, or told NEVER to do it. Sorry boys and girls, you will NEVER convince I don't need to know this desperate trick. And I think you need to know of it also. I would hate to think you don't, or have been told...blindly...never, ever to do it.


You never see a doctrine that says - " Rule 1: Make Blind Shots and Advance"

The rule should read - "In a desperate time when you are pinnned or absolutely must advance under heavy fire, you may consider initiating the advance with a blind cover shots. Here are your considerations....."

Hock
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 07:08:57 PM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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410indashade

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2006, 10:39:13 PM »

It sounds to me like "recon by fire."
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Mike Spight

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2006, 05:47:08 AM »

Chuck Burnett has made a very good point; apart from a tenuous (Hock's point is well taken; I can accept desperate) military application, the technique is loaded with risks for LEOs and armed citizens.

Remember Rule #4...and also remember that there is a lawyer attached to every bullet you launch during a fight.  You had best be able to account for every one, who/what you were aiming at when the shot broke, the background, and the bullet's terminal resting place.
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Mike

Chuck Burnett

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2006, 01:37:22 PM »

The rule should read - "In a desperate time when you are pinnned or absolutely must advance under heavy fire, you may consider initiating the advance with a blind cover shots. Here are your considerations....."

Yeah, what he said.

All options should be considered and discussed. Some won't get used except in "no other option, do or die" situations.
But someday you may need that last second half-court buzzer beater.

Chuck
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Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2006, 05:55:11 PM »

Remember Rule #4...and also remember that there is a lawyer attached to every bullet you launch during a fight.  You had best be able to account for every one, who/what you were aiming at when the shot broke, the background, and the bullet's terminal resting place.

I always worry about the people not learning the full spectrum of life-saving tactics. LEOS and citizens are so often treated like undependable, young adults, and important, full -spectrum things that are "hidden" from them, as they just can't be trusted know this know this-or-that trick...as if daring to talk about things like chokes or blind, cover shots are absolute, taboo, never-do subjects.

Really, sniper situations are not tenuous at all, they are quite common, and all gunfights are desperate. In the book Street Killers, recollections of police shootings, a bad guy with a gun was behind a car in a parking lot beside a building. Two officers were pinned down behind their cars. One officer stuck his pistol up and fired at the car, then stood and charged the vehicle, continueing to fire, sporadically. The very first shot caused the bad guy to duck behind his car and he stayed down for the officer's whole advance, to be shot by the officer who leaned over the car (one-handed) and shot the crouching criminal.  All the rounds struck the building, the car and the bad guy. The officer probably knew his rounds would hit the car or wall. The story didn't say.

In another street survival story I recall, an officer searched a building for a burglar. His gun was out. As he rounded a corner in a hall, he suddenly stood face to face with a man holding a pistol. They exchanged shocked looks and the burglar shot at him. The shot missed as the cop as he stepped back behind the corner. Angered, he stuck his pistol out sideways and fired once down the hall -  blind cover shot-  then turned the corner shooting. He recalled seeing the burglar crunched over from his first blind, cover shot, then the officer shot the armed man down. All the bullets hit the bad guy and the wall behind him. No one knows if the first blind shot hit him or not? Or, caused him to crouch over and interrupt his concentration on the corner hiding the officer? I think if the officer simply stepped out in his poster-boy, two-handed grip and rounded the corner, he might well have been shot?

Both times, officers instinctively knew their cover shots would safely.

I think if you outlaw and hide the instruction of such a tactic in the fear someone eventually might abuse it, is just not good. There is a time and place to shoot at anyone, and a time and a place to use a blind, cover shot. The responsibility for BOTH action is grave and deep and concerns people in the area.
 
And Rule Number 5: Never let abject, total and blind fear of litigation make you timid, paranoid or hesitant to life-saving action and hence cause you to lose your life, or friends or family. 

At the risk of souding radical on this, and I am not at all, really - but a lawsuit is better than a funeral, yours, your comrades or nearby innocent victims of the bad guy.


<<<>>>

Now on another somewhat related subject...military...tossing grenades in advance of small team advancement to injure and distract possible troops entrenched ahead. Or this problem,

Firing mortars blindly into these areas....
(quote follows) - All maneuver units require indirect fire to win. Mortars provide unique indirect fires that are organizationally responsive to the ground maneuver commander. Their rapid, high-angle, plunging fires are invaluable against dug-in enemy troops and targets in defilade, which are not vulnerable to attack by direct fires. They play a unique and vital role on the AirLand Battlefield. Mortars allow the maneuver commander to quickly place killing indirect fires on the enemy, independent of whether he has been allocated supporting artillery.

Is these military practices liek grenades and mortars...not unlike blind cover shots? I mean, do they know where each and every bullet or shread of metal lands?

Hock

Professor

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2006, 07:26:56 PM »

Remember Rule #4...and also remember that there is a lawyer attached to every bullet you launch during a fight.  You had best be able to account for every one, who/what you were aiming at when the shot broke, the background, and the bullet's terminal resting place.

I always worry about the people not learning the full spectrum of life-saving tactics. LEOS and citizens are so often treated like undependable, young adults, and important, full -spectrum things that are "hidden" from them, as they just can't be trusted know this know this-or-that trick...as if daring to talk about things like chokes or blind, cover shots are absolute, taboo, never-do subjects.

Really, sniper situations are not tenuous at all, they are quite common, and all gunfights are desperate. In the book Street Killers, recollections of police shootings, a bad guy with a gun was behind a car in a parking lot beside a building. Two officers were pinned down behind their cars. One officer stuck his pistol up and fired at the car, then stood and charged the vehicle, continueing to fire, sporadically. The very first shot caused the bad guy to duck behind his car and he stayed down for the officer's whole advance, to be shot by the officer who leaned over the car (one-handed) and shot the crouching criminal.  All the rounds struck the building, the car and the bad guy. The officer probably knew his rounds would hit the car or wall. The story didn't say.

In another street survival story I recall, an officer searched a building for a burglar. His gun was out. As he rounded a corner in a hall, he suddenly stood face to face with a man holding a pistol. They exchanged shocked looks and the burglar shot at him. The shot missed as the cop as he stepped back behind the corner. Angered, he stuck his pistol out sideways and fired once down the hall -  blind cover shot-  then turned the corner shooting. He recalled seeing the burglar crunched over from his first blind, cover shot, then the officer shot the armed man down. All the bullets hit the bad guy and the wall behind him. No one knows if the first blind shot hit him or not? Or, caused him to crouch over and interrupt his concentration on the corner hiding the officer? I think if the officer simply stepped out in his poster-boy, two-handed grip and rounded the corner, he might well have been shot?

Both times, officers instinctively knew their cover shots would safely.

I think if you outlaw and hide the instruction of such a tactic in the fear someone eventually might abuse it, is just not good. There is a time and place to shoot at anyone, and a time and a place to use a blind, cover shot. The responsibility for BOTH action is grave and deep and concerns people in the area.
 
And Rule Number 5: Never let abject, total and blind fear of litigation make you timid, paranoid or hesitant to life-saving action and hence cause you to lose your life, or friends or family. 

At the risk of souding radical on this, and I am not at all, really - but a lawsuit is better than a funeral, yours, your comrades or nearby innocent victims of the bad guy.


<<<>>>

Now on another somewhat related subject...military...tossing grenades in advance of small team advancement to injure and distract possible troops entrenched ahead. Or this problem,

Firing mortars blindly into these areas....
(quote follows) - All maneuver units require indirect fire to win. Mortars provide unique indirect fires that are organizationally responsive to the ground maneuver commander. Their rapid, high-angle, plunging fires are invaluable against dug-in enemy troops and targets in defilade, which are not vulnerable to attack by direct fires. They play a unique and vital role on the AirLand Battlefield. Mortars allow the maneuver commander to quickly place killing indirect fires on the enemy, independent of whether he has been allocated supporting artillery.

Is these military practices liek grenades and mortars...not unlike blind cover shots? I mean, do they know where each and every bullet or shread of metal lands?

Hock


I got my Conceal Handgun License renewal class taken last night.   The instructor asked the following question: 

How many of you have not shot your pistol since your last qualification shoot?

Out of a class of 24 students, 8 of the people had not shot their pistols in the four years since they had last qualified.

The instructors answer:

"You guys scare me!!!"



While I get angry for the inability to have the option of protecting myself in every location, this class made me realize once again that I need to duck when some people are trying to protect me.


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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

410indashade

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2006, 03:16:17 PM »

Not to get to far off subject but I refered to "recon by fire" missions and then Hock came in with the perfect explanation of them.  Also this whole topic skirts very close to a topic near and dear to me.  The difference between law enforcement and the military.  Anyone care to discuss that?  Now that the U.S. Marine Corps has gone "isn't that Special Ops," and capitulated to the Bush Administration's new vision of the military as cops to the third world.     
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Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2006, 12:51:43 PM »

Here is another blind fire situation and perhaps a great example of "never shoot blind" and the (repetitive need to door kick) and how costly this mindtrap mentality can get.

Saw this on a police documentary...

-Armed man goes nuts in a factory in the morning. Wounds some folks.
-Employees flee. All personnal accounted for.
-SWAT isolates area.
-Little-to-no negiotiations, then that shuts down after a few hours. Even momma comes to talk.

-Late afternoon-
They make a two simult. entries at two locations. the bad guy shoots throught he door as one SWAT team approaches. Flat-out miracle they weren't hit because the boys where lined up like toy soldiers. Both teams stop and regroup. (bad guys blind fire thwarts attack)

-Early evening-
They shoot in enough gas to kill a hundred horses. They even send back to a supply stores for more gas.

-Late evening-
They enter this foggy/smoke-filled factory. Almost search the whole place. nothing. Then they find a bathroom built inside a larger room and see a towell stuffed under the bathroom door to stop the gas. Must be him! Now, this bathroom has two visable walls - the wall with the door, and a longer wall running the length of the bathroom. The bathroom back wall is hooked another room and the other side wall is hooked to another room wall. So the troops are looking at two walls..

They shout-out and this bastard starts shooing through the walls. The troops exit. (one more time blind fire thwarts an attack)

- I think they put even more gas in the room. No one could believe how gas-durable this guy was!

- Now A.M. hours they start again, entering the large room with this bathroom. They get ready to kick the door and the bad guy shoots through the walls again and this time shoots two of the officers! (Blind fire wounds his enemy and upsets the officers' plan). Then...he shot himself.

At no point do these officers seriously start shooting through the bathroom walls, just some cover fire (blind again!) at the door to get out of there when he first started shooting. I can only guess a really hard, no-no, rule was drawn about ANY blind fire? No, no, never? Even though the record of the day was solid that the badguy was the only occupant in the entire building.


I will tell you without a doubt (and some readers here worked with me those days) that if that happened to us in the 70s and 80s, early SWAT or pre-SWAT or no-SWAT, when the first rounds of fire came out of the bathroom walls, we would have shot that bathroom wall down until it crumbled into plaster powder, the toilet exploded and that son of a bitch was swiss cheese dead. 

But...that would have been blind fire.
Smart fire! But, blind fire.

The SWAT team members were interviewed. Super folks. They were a super professional group, playing by all the modern rules. Super disciplined troops. Doing as told. But sometimes those rules have to bend...into swiss cheese.

The bad guy used blind cover fire quite successfully, even wounding some of his enemy. The first and second assult, the good guys used some cover fire. The second time in though? ...having established the bad guy awake, alive, alone and quick to shoot? ...should have been swiss cheese city. The hell with pulling or kicking the bathroom door and playing room raid. He'd already shot through the walls!

Hock
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 02:16:27 PM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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410indashade

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2006, 03:06:16 PM »

One question, why not use a breaching charge or a shotgun breach followed by a concussion grenade?  Just asking.  I've seen the SAS do wonderful things with pre-fab shaped charges and I know from experience what just a quarter ounce of C-4 will do to armor plate if shaped properly.  In fact, as the Marines say, "There are few problems in life that can't be solved by the proper use of high explosives."  I was never on a civilian SWAT but I had the impression perhaps wrongly as it turns out that these teams had a wider latitude in which to operate than regular cops on the beat.       
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Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 07:54:11 PM »

In the last few weeks I have had an opportunity to read a few more war histories and made note of the successful and heavy use of blind, cover fire in combat.

In one instance in a book, one night, the soldiers expected an NVA assault from across a vegetated field. Every few minutes they fired a steady blast, about shin high on the field. They did not raise up in fear of being sniped. On occasion, this low line blind fire? A distant, encroaching enemy would cry out.

Some modern fighters, those heavily trained in typical SWAT style training, often view the world as one giant room raid, a situation in which they think blind cover fire is unacceptably dangerous.

But you cannot carry this room/building mindset in to the world of open, chaotic urban, suburban and open field combat. A does not equal B. A-thinking  should not limit B thinking.

This is just one reason why I worry just a tad when SWAT experts teach civilian and military shooters. There is a worry of subtle, innocent, left-over mindset that might not maximize survival.

Hock
 

410indashade

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2006, 05:20:59 AM »

With apologies to all I offend by my remarks herein:  I put anyone who takes anothers word for what constitutes a shoot; no shoot situation in the category of "fools with guns" and try to stay well clear of same.  This includes but is not limited to all policy makers, politicians (in uniform or out) and all card carrying members of that most insidious of popular movements, c r e e p i n g  m o m m i s m . I believe strongly in the "whatever it takes to go home alive," method of practical fighting.  I realize this ethos is somewhat unpopular in the age of political correctness but there it is. 
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Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2007, 07:40:05 PM »

Three points that will spread opver three subjects here on the gun forum. Been watching the big Father's Day TV special, Under Fire show all day on the network Court TV. Films of actual shootouts.

1) Blind cover shots. in one footage piece, a bad guy jumps from his car, pulls a gun and fires at the cop. The cop turns completely away, extends his arm over his back and, at a dead run fires fires blindly behind him. The bad guy ducks and changed diection (unhit) The cop got behind his car. Score yet anoither one for blind cover fire.

2) In another episode, a cop is at the open car door of a bad guy. Bad guys gasses the car. Cop grabs the van door frame. Van drives off. Driver punched the cop four times. The cop pulls his pistol and shoots the driver three times. The driver looses control of his van and slams into a wall. Cop loses his pistol, and hits the ground. In fact, the loose pistol lands near the chest of the awake bad guy. Other officer charged up and gets the pistol. Score another one for the idea of lanyards for pistols.

3) Through the day's episodes, many offiicers were shot. Their phsyical reactions varied from feeling no impact or pain to being to knocked down.  Score one for the unpredicability of "bullets" moving people. If one bullet moves one person? Then simply put - bullets can move people.

Hock
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 06:01:29 AM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2008, 09:24:44 PM »

Interesting to re-read.

Hock

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Re: Blind, Cover Shots
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2009, 08:55:26 PM »

In the lobby of our local library are used books for sale and I saw a new batch of paperbacks. I wound up buying 6 books, 50 cents each. All 1st person narratives from Vietnam soldiers, one a SEAL called, "Whattya Mean I Can't Kill Them All."

Well, I have enjoyed each one, as I read them...all at once (one in gym bag -waiting for my wife to finish up - one in truck, one in bathroom, one...etc...you get the picture)

At the end of few weeks I finished all six. The Army ones were all very much the same. Like a Carmac McCarthy novel, an endless, meaningless trek of bad terrain and violence.

BUT, there are mnay, great tactics to be excised from these rambling memoirs. One? The blind cover shots. Page after page of how blind cover shots, some semi-auto, saved lives, enhanced missions and covered daring escapes. Each time I read an incident of "blind cover shots," I thought of this thread and said AHA!...

Hock
 
 

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