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[Nick Hughes]

Joe made a good point in the thread about sparring hard i.e. admitting a student beat you.  Rather than hi-jack the thread I was curious as to how many instructors here train their students to beat them?

My goal has always been to produce students who can kick my a**.  (hasn't happened yet but that's my goal )  I figure if I can do that and, more importantly, instill in them the same philosophy the style/system will always continue to grow stronger.

The style I trained in years ago had 15th generation black belts.  If you figure the head honcho was brilliant but his number two man wasn't quite as good and work that to its logical conclusion the 15th generation guys are going to be pathetic in comparison to the head man.

Train the other way and imagine how good those 15th generation guys are going to be?

I'm wondering if that is why some styles end up disappearing?  They get so diluted that they're just not worth learning any more.

Unfortunately I think egos get in the way and/or fear.  The instructor thinks that if the guy can beat me why is he going to come to class anymore?  I've always been comforted by the fact that boxers figured out long ago you can have the knowledge to teach without being able to beat up on the guy your teaching.  I forget the exact age of Ali's trainer back in his glory days but if memory serves it was Angelo Dundee and he was pushing seventy.

Interested in other instructors thought's on this.

N

[mleone]

Student do become good! Yes they can beat you! Lets come away from the mythical unstoppable instructor.
Mike Tyson is good but there is always some one better than him!
Maybe he isnt found but maybe he is!

Ultimately be care full of your UNQUESTIONED CONVICTIONS. You can never be too sure.
Have some grace and understand there people better. We strive to for the same things here!
Instructors do their job. Getting beat in sparring means nothing getting beat in street means more.
We all train for the same reason. I dont look at instructor less if he gets beat. I learned he is learning just like a student. Learning his students style and openings.

[Kentbob]

Personally, winning feels great.  But, I don't learn as much when I win as when I lose.  Be it boxing, grappling, chess, whatever.  Just like when someone builds a bridge, they learn more if the bridge falls, than if it stays standing for millions of years.



Kent

[mleone]

Well said within all our fears and defeats lies a seed of learning in itself.
Its part of the process!
Any one who feels that getting beat is a problem, are speaking out of fear that it could happen to them.

Jim learned something in that situation and will exploit more for the correct openings!

When he finds that opening he will win.
But over all he has really won and he learned! That is winning the learning process.

So many people are right and wrong and xyz sequential they forget the process. The learning!!!

[Rawhide]

Hell, the ONLY way I can win is to cheat!  I can't wrestle or kickboxing or anything of the sport combatives without someone kicking my ass,  Rules imhibit my ability to make up for some inadequacy I have with competition.  Most of my students can give me a whippin' on any given day with the rules in place.  Otherwise I usually get the upper hand.  Not always and thats ok too!

[Professor]

Ninor,

I have not been whipped as a teacher.....I will not allow circumstances to get that far.   It is not good for instruction for me to allow the students to get that far out of control -- they should be learning.   

I have and allowed myself to be whipped in different circumstances.   Teaching is teaching.  Competition is Competition.  Fighting is Fighting.  Some of our greatest combative/fighting/sports athletes certainly couldn't teach their sport.



When I fight with someone full-blast I will "take-off" my teacher role....thus letting the student know that I'm not trying to teach -- thus no instruction/correction etc.

What a student looks for in a teacher should be VERY different from what they look for in a fighter.   A teacher cannot blur the line between teacher and students without coming into a lot of difficult situations of control.


Jeff

[Bri Thai]

I remember chatting to my old grappling instructor.  He outlined his disappointment in a man who had been going to for private lessons.  These involved free-fight/sparring type workouts.  Apparently Mike (my instructor) got so good that he managed to arm bar his teacher on one occasion.  Mike was disappointed that the teacher was angry, and we both agreed how, in our view, he should have been pleased with the progress of his protegee.

Some years later Mike was proudly boasting of how he'd "punished" a guy in a private lesson.  This time Mike was the instructor.  The guy had the audacity to almos get an arm bar on Mike during a rool around, so Mike spent the rest of the hour whipping his backside.

Seems like things went full circle.  I no longer train with Mike.