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  • September 25, 2018, 01:15:21 PM
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Poll

Gun Control Needed or Neglected?

Need more Gun Control
- 1 (16.7%)
Its an area thats neglected!
- 5 (83.3%)

Total Members Voted: 5


Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?  (Read 5606 times)

mleone

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Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« on: July 01, 2006, 10:27:32 AM »

THE controversy over gun control revolves around two related questions of government authority: does the government have the right to impose regulations; and, assuming the existence of such a right, should the government regulate guns? It is perfectly obvious that numerous gun control regulations already exist, from the national to the local level.  ;)

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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2006, 01:38:50 PM »

I feel that the government has the right to impose regulations.  Especially now that the Bill of Rights is null and void.  However, there needs to be some sort of regulations.  No one should be able to arm themselves with a thermonuclear warhead, for example.  That's an extreme case, but if not regulated, someone could buy one.  Or grenade launchers, or artillery pieces.  Small arms should be what people are arming themselves with, not the heavy ordinance.  If you want the heavy stuff, get the Class III permit.

Kent
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arnold

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2006, 04:42:28 AM »

I got mine! Helps me get my beauty sleep knowing I have a BAR sitting in the closet with a 30 round clip just a short distance away. Got my class 3 20 years ago, but still have to abide by certain local laws and ordinances if I ever take it out or shoot it. It stays locked in the safe along with it's close friend and best buddy mister thompson, and his german cousin, mr mg34. I don't have a rocker launcher, but I do gave a 20 mm grenade launcher that fits on the end of my k 98 mauser. Don'tcha just feel warm all over now?!
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cgonzales

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2006, 04:21:55 PM »

the government has the right to impose regulations???????
the bill of rights is null and void????????????????
this from a defender of the nation!!!!!!!!!!!
the constitution says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
you remmember that part dont you, because you swore to defend it when you took your oath.
and as far as your extreme case on nukes they are heavely regulated and now everybody has one
(iran, north korea,bla. bla.bla)
the no grenade launchers and heavy ordinance nonsense followes the sara brady line of thinking.
we already have laws against killing and it doesnt matter how you go about it.
but its that incremintal thinking that will have all of us in chains one day.
get a permit for class three????????
see second amendment again.
only peasents ask permission to defend themselves.
yea id say youguys hit a nerve in this TEXAN that runs deep.
hey heres a thought look up what happened in Gonzales, Texas when the then mexican govt. came for the cannon (heavy ordinance) what a can o worms that opened.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY. 
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Adventure

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2006, 04:39:07 PM »

the government has the right to impose regulations???????
the bill of rights is null and void????????????????
this from a defender of the nation!!!!!!!!!!!
the constitution says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
you remmember that part dont you, because you swore to defend it when you took your oath.
and as far as your extreme case on nukes they are heavely regulated and now everybody has one
(iran, north korea,bla. bla.bla)
the no grenade launchers and heavy ordinance nonsense followes the sara brady line of thinking.
we already have laws against killing and it doesnt matter how you go about it.
but its that incremintal thinking that will have all of us in chains one day.
get a permit for class three????????
see second amendment again.
only peasents ask permission to defend themselves.
yea id say youguys hit a nerve in this TEXAN that runs deep.
hey heres a thought look up what happened in Gonzales, Texas when the then mexican govt. came for the cannon (heavy ordinance) what a can o worms that opened.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY. 

AMEN!  Preach it Brother.


Ditto, everything he just said. :)

Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 04:55:20 PM »

the government has the right to impose regulations???????
the bill of rights is null and void????????????????
this from a defender of the nation!!!!!!!!!!!
the constitution says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
you remmember that part dont you, because you swore to defend it when you took your oath.
and as far as your extreme case on nukes they are heavely regulated and now everybody has one
(iran, north korea,bla. bla.bla)
the no grenade launchers and heavy ordinance nonsense followes the sara brady line of thinking.
we already have laws against killing and it doesnt matter how you go about it.
but its that incremintal thinking that will have all of us in chains one day.
get a permit for class three????????
see second amendment again.
only peasents ask permission to defend themselves.
yea id say youguys hit a nerve in this TEXAN that runs deep.
hey heres a thought look up what happened in Gonzales, Texas when the then mexican govt. came for the cannon (heavy ordinance) what a can o worms that opened.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY. 

My dad has a t-shirt that says "R.I.P. Bill of Rights--Slain by the Patriot Act".  And when you think about it, it really is true. 
I don't know where you get making a statement that amounts to nothing less than questioning my commitment to our country.  This, coupled with the peasant remark, makes me think that not a whole lot of thought went into this post. 

If there are no regulations, then people start to get the idea that they can own anything they want.  I know we can't privately own nukes.  You say that the heavy ordinance is nonsense, but there are people out there who sell grenades, and launchers. Why?  Those aren't necessary.  There has to be some sort of common sense regulation.  Common sense must come from the people.  The government is "for the people, by the people, of the people".  Thus, the government must have the right to impose regulations. 
As to the permit for a class three, you misunderstand me.  I just meant, get a class three if you want a machine gun.  Otherwise, stick to the pistols, shotguns, and longguns.  The average citizen has no need for anything else.

I don't know what the Sara Brady line of thinking is.  It sounds extremist, as is your response.

I always tell my students, "Its better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six.".  Think about that.

Peopl keep saying, "An armed society, blah blah blah.".  We already have an armed society.  A responsible society is a polite society.  Thus far, we have shown a remarkable lack of responsibility in a great many areas. 

I ask you, what is your argument?  That you want to be able to purchase an M-60 E-3?  Then get an FFL.  Otherwise, you can already get anything you want, provided your not a felon.  If you are complaining because you need an FFL to purchase the M-60?  What is your need for an M-60?  If you don't need it, why are you buying it?

What is your complaint?

Kent
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usks1

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2006, 05:18:31 PM »

"I don't know what the Sara Brady line of thinking is.  It sounds extremist, as is your response"

Might have something to do with that thing called the Brady Bill??

Gun regulation is like most "great plans" only as good as those regulating it.

Do you really think the gang banger who did the drive by with a Mac 10 or an uzi, in just about any large urban city last night holds a class 3 permit?

This is an old argument... The only thing regulation does is to keep the law abiding citizen from buying one the legal way.... If you want an illiegal firearm, and have the cash, you can find the connection and get what you want.

Do we need gun regulation, or maybe stiffer enforcement for the law breakers??

Anyway I ain't giving up my guns... And I pity the idiot who tries to take them.

The Second Amendment
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

This may not be a politically correct statement or view.... But it is mine.

Keep em locked and loaded Carl.

Dean.
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cgonzales

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2006, 05:42:59 PM »

THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS WITH THE IF YOU DONT NEED IT THING.
ITS NOT ABOUT NEED ITS ABOUT WANTS.
WHY DOES MY TRUCK HAVE A SPEEDOMETER THATS SAYS 120 MPH WHEN THE FASTEST SPEED LIMIT IS 75 MPH. IT DOESNT MEAN THAT I WILL BREAK THE LAW BECAUSE OF ITNOW DOES IT.
BUT IF I DO THEN THE CAR DIDNT BREAK THE LAW I DID.
DO YOU REALLY NEED TO STUDY MARTIAL ARTS OR DO YOU CHOOSE TO. DO WE RAELLY NEED POINTY KNIVES. COME ON WHEN DOES THIS NEED THING END?
AND AS FAR AS THE PATRIOT ACT GOES THE CONSTITUTION STATES THAT ANY LAW THAT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION IS NULL AND VOID AND SHALL BE AS IF IT NEVER EXISTED.
AS FAR AS SOUNDING EXTREAM , YEA IN TODAYS WORLD ITS EXTREAM BUT 20 YEARS AGO IT WAS THE NORM. YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE SOUNDS EXTREAM HOMESCHOOLING YOU KIDS, TAKING CARE OF YOUR PARENTS, NOT BEING PART OF THE GREAT NANNY STATE, STANDING FOR WHATS RIGHT ALL THE TIME, AND NOT EVER LETTING THE CAMELS NOSE IN THE TENT WITH GUN CONTROL.
HAVE A GANDER AT THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO SOME DAY AND SEE HOW FAR THE COMMIES HAVE GOTTEN IN THIS COUNTRY. THE WORLD DIDNT NEED A POL POT, STALIN,MAO, OR HITLER.
BUT IT TOOK FREE MEN WITH GUNS TO STOP THEM. OH YEA AND KING GEORGE TOO.
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2006, 05:47:09 PM »

"I don't know what the Sara Brady line of thinking is.  It sounds extremist, as is your response"

Might have something to do with that thing called the Brady Bill??

Gun regulation is like most "great plans" only as good as those regulating it.

Do you really think the gang banger who did the drive by with a Mac 10 or an uzi, in just about any large urban city last night holds a class 3 permit?

This is an old argument... The only thing regulation does is to keep the law abiding citizen from buying one the legal way.... If you want an illiegal firearm, and have the cash, you can find the connection and get what you want.

Do we need gun regulation, or maybe stiffer enforcement for the law breakers??

Anyway I ain't giving up my guns... And I pity the idiot who tries to take them.

The Second Amendment
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

This may not be a politically correct statement or view.... But it is mine.

Keep em locked and loaded Carl.

Dean.


I am familiar with more or less what the Brady Bill is, and I did make the connection.  However, I don't necessarily know what "the Sara Brady line of thinking" is.  

No, of course gang bangers don't have class 3 licenses.  So, then, we come to the point of why do we need class three licenses?  Which begs the question, why do individuals need to buy automatic weapons?  

I fail to understand how gun laws keep a law abiding citizen from buying one the legal way.  I am a law abiding citizen, and I bought one the legal way.  Yes, if you can get the cash, you can totally buy one illegally.  

Do we need stiffer penalties for the law breakers?  Of course.  This is an old argument.  I submit the gun control should be an educational process.  Somehow, start a program, run federally, educating the average citizen on the benefits of owning a firearm.  Start a program to benefit the law abiding citizen buying their first pistol.  Some sort of positive reinforcement.  Not just stiffer penalties.  The key to getting more firearms out there, legally, is education.  We will never reach the extremists, and make them understand, short of dropping them unarmed in a ghetto and telling them to survive.  But the people in the middle, they can be reached and convinced.  They are the ones that need to be convinced, and not by any extremist views.  Just practical information on the benefits of owning a firearm.  

1. Benefits
2. Safety
These should be part of a gun control program.

Kent
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2006, 05:58:31 PM »

THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS WITH THE IF YOU DONT NEED IT THING.
ITS NOT ABOUT NEED ITS ABOUT WANTS.
WHY DOES MY TRUCK HAVE A SPEEDOMETER THATS SAYS 120 MPH WHEN THE FASTEST SPEED LIMIT IS 75 MPH. IT DOESNT MEAN THAT I WILL BREAK THE LAW BECAUSE OF ITNOW DOES IT.
BUT IF I DO THEN THE CAR DIDNT BREAK THE LAW I DID.
DO YOU REALLY NEED TO STUDY MARTIAL ARTS OR DO YOU CHOOSE TO. DO WE RAELLY NEED POINTY KNIVES. COME ON WHEN DOES THIS NEED THING END?
AND AS FAR AS THE PATRIOT ACT GOES THE CONSTITUTION STATES THAT ANY LAW THAT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION IS NULL AND VOID AND SHALL BE AS IF IT NEVER EXISTED.
AS FAR AS SOUNDING EXTREAM , YEA IN TODAYS WORLD ITS EXTREAM BUT 20 YEARS AGO IT WAS THE NORM. YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE SOUNDS EXTREAM HOMESCHOOLING YOU KIDS, TAKING CARE OF YOUR PARENTS, NOT BEING PART OF THE GREAT NANNY STATE, STANDING FOR WHATS RIGHT ALL THE TIME, AND NOT EVER LETTING THE CAMELS NOSE IN THE TENT WITH GUN CONTROL.
HAVE A GANDER AT THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO SOME DAY AND SEE HOW FAR THE COMMIES HAVE GOTTEN IN THIS COUNTRY. THE WORLD DIDNT NEED A POL POT, STALIN,MAO, OR HITLER.
BUT IT TOOK FREE MEN WITH GUNS TO STOP THEM. OH YEA AND KING GEORGE TOO.

Yes, the Constitution states that any law that violates the constitution shall be null and void.  But all the Bush supporters (that just sounds dirty) and cronies are perfectly happy to let him in there, with his Patriot Act.  They are fine with the continued violations of our freedom, such as NSA monitoring phone conversations, monitoring our internet activity, and all that stuff.  You trust the government to decide that your not a threat, but you don't trust them with gun regulations?  The process has already started buddy.  And it didn't start with gun control.  Did you vote for Bush?  Then you voted our freedoms down.  He has run roughshod over due process, and a few other things that we hold dear, amongst them, the truth.  Now, don't get me wrong, he's not the only one.  Everybody does it these days, and most people take it for granted.  Not this guy. 
Owning and driving a car responsibly is much different from owning and using a firearm.  To follow your line of thinking, we should ban felons from owning cars.  After all, cars are used to commit crimes just as much as guns.  Criminals get a gun with the definite intent of committing a crime with it.  And that has a much better chance of ending up in injury or death for someone.  Especially if an automatic weapon is used.  The criminals should not have a chance to outgun the police, and with automatic weapons available as freely as they are now, then they criminals can outgun the police much easier.  Yes, this is a concession.  Concessions have to be made sometimes.  I don't like it any more than you do.  I understand just as much as you do the dangers.  However, as long as we have free men like yourself and me, they will never take my pistol or shotgun, except by "prying it from my cold, blah blah blah."  Copy?

Kent
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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2006, 06:05:46 PM »

Just so we're clear, I have always dreamed of owning an M-60 E-3.  I like M-60s.  But I am willing to forego that if it could bring a decrease in violent crime across the country.

Kent
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cgonzales

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2006, 06:12:40 PM »

WOW!!
OK LET ME START OVER. I THOUGHT YOU WERE FOR MORE REGULATION AND CONTROL.
OK NOW FOR THE EDUCATION AND BENEFITS TO GUN OWNERSHIP.
MAKE EVERYONE READ AND FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS .
YOU WANT POSOTIVE REINFORCMENT . MAKE EVERYONE READ THE DECLARARTION OF INDEPENDENCE.
OH WAIT FOR IT..........................TAKE ALL THE FULL AUTOS AWAY FROM THE COPS MAKE THE LAW ENFORCERS CARY WHAT WE HAVETO  HEY JUST A THOUGHT.
AS FAR AS DROPPING SOME ONE OFF UNARMED IN THE GHETTO TO GET THEM TO CHANGE THERE WAYS, WOULDNT WORK. FOR THE SARA BRADYS OUT THERE ITS ABOUT CONTROL OF YOU THEY REALLY WANT.  YOU SHOULD REALLY READ SOME OF COOPERS WRITINGS ON THE SUBJECT OF GUN CONTROL  OR MAYBE THE POST WITH THE ARTICAL BY AGGARD ON THIS FORUM.
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2006, 06:22:38 PM »

WOW!!
OK LET ME START OVER. I THOUGHT YOU WERE FOR MORE REGULATION AND CONTROL.
OK NOW FOR THE EDUCATION AND BENEFITS TO GUN OWNERSHIP.
MAKE EVERYONE READ AND FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS .
YOU WANT POSOTIVE REINFORCMENT . MAKE EVERYONE READ THE DECLARARTION OF INDEPENDENCE.
OH WAIT FOR IT..........................TAKE ALL THE FULL AUTOS AWAY FROM THE COPS MAKE THE LAW ENFORCERS CARY WHAT WE HAVETO  HEY JUST A THOUGHT.
AS FAR AS DROPPING SOME ONE OFF UNARMED IN THE GHETTO TO GET THEM TO CHANGE THERE WAYS, WOULDNT WORK. FOR THE SARA BRADYS OUT THERE ITS ABOUT CONTROL OF YOU THEY REALLY WANT.  YOU SHOULD REALLY READ SOME OF COOPERS WRITINGS ON THE SUBJECT OF GUN CONTROL  OR MAYBE THE POST WITH THE ARTICAL BY AGGARD ON THIS FORUM.

I have a request.  Could you please not print in all caps?  Its more difficult to read and understand.

If I am understanding you correctly, then you agree with taking the full autos out of circulation?  Could you clarify this for me? 
Except for autos, I am all for education as the only true means of regulation.  We must combat ignorance.  You can't really make everyone read the constitution or the bill of rights.  It just wouldn't sink in.  There has to be some sort of real world connection for Mr. John Q. Public, otherwise he just won't get the point.  The average person takes all those things for granted, until they're gone.  But an education program on the benefits of owning a firearm, and how the 2nd amendment relates to Mr. Public, much more ideal.  How to do this?  I don't know.  Maybe a college course.  Maybe schools.  I don't know, but education is the key.


Kent
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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2006, 06:23:44 PM »

I am familiar with more or less what the Brady Bill is, and I did make the connection.  However, I don't necessarily know what "the Sara Brady line of thinking" is.  

No, of course gang bangers don't have class 3 licenses.  So, then, we come to the point of why do we need class three licenses?  Which begs the question, why do individuals need to buy automatic weapons?  Why do I need to go to a seminar and learn new cool ways to defend myself? Why do I feel the need to buy that 0 - 100 in 5 second rice grinder or the Camaro that does 10 second quarter miles... Because I have the right to, and I want it! I don't necessarily need it, but I want it. I don't need an automatic weapon, but if I want one then I should not be regulated on my ability to purchase it, as long as I do it legally.

I fail to understand how gun laws keep a law abiding citizen from buying one the legal way.  I am a law abiding citizen, and I bought one the legal way.  Yes, if you can get the cash, you can totally buy one illegally. All mine are legal also.. My beef is I don't like the word regulation... It feels like the black vans rolling up and knocking on doors and taking away firearms...

Do we need stiffer penalties for the law breakers?  Of course.  This is an old argument.  I submit the gun control should be an educational process.  Somehow, start a program, run federally, educating the average citizen on the benefits of owning a firearm.  Start a program to benefit the law abiding citizen buying their first pistol.  Some sort of positive reinforcement.  Not just stiffer penalties.  The key to getting more firearms out there, legally, is education.  We will never reach the extremists, and make them understand, short of dropping them unarmed in a ghetto and telling them to survive.  But the people in the middle, they can be reached and convinced.  They are the ones that need to be convinced, and not by any extremist views.  Just practical information on the benefits of owning a firearm.  

1. Benefits
2. Safety


I agree fully that Education should be part of a gun control program.
I am all for education.. This should also start in the home. I took my boys to the range from the time they were little shites and they have shot BB guns to shotguns to the 7mm mag... When they had questions about guns, I took the guns out, showed them how to ensure it was safe to handle, and let them look at it and touch it and later they shot it ( under my supervision )... It was not some cool "untouchable" thing that they couldn't wait for me to leave so they could try to get to it and play with it..

Also if children are "educated" about firearms they will be quicker to understand the dangers of playing with guns... And this will hopefully be passed on to their friends with irresponsible parents.


With power and rights comes responsibility... I don't need someone to tell me I don't need anything.. If I want it, and have earned the right to have it... Then damn it, I am gonna go get it.

It is like censorship... If you don't like it, then turn the channel..  Somewhere in that constitution it also gives us the freedom of speech.. I may not need it, but go ahead and try to take it away...


Educate the people, and pass on the benefits of this wonderful country...

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2006, 06:31:30 PM »

Quote
I agree fully that Education should be part of a gun control program.
I am all for education.. This should also start in the home. I took my boys to the range from the time they were little shites and they have shot BB guns to shotguns to the 7mm mag... When they had questions about guns, I took the guns out, showed them how to ensure it was safe to handle, and let them look at it and touch it and later they shot it ( under my supervision )... It was not some cool "untouchable" thing that they couldn't wait for me to leave so they could try to get to it and play with it..

Also if children are "educated" about firearms they will be quicker to understand the dangers of playing with guns... And this will hopefully be passed on to their friends with irresponsible parents.

With power and rights comes responsibility... I don't need someone to tell me I don't need anything.. If I want it, and have earned the right to have it... Then damn it, I am gonna go get it.

It is like censorship... If you don't like it, then turn the channel..  Somewhere in that constitution it also gives us the freedom of speech.. I may not need it, but go ahead and try to take it away...

Educate the people, and pass on the benefits of this wonderful country

The bit about regulation is semantics, and I don't know what to tell you.  Somehow, we need to decrease the autos.  Somehow we need to make them harder for the bad guys in this country to get ahold of.  That include terrorists, as well as criminals, just so you know.  Getting rid of them is a sacrifice I am willing to make.  If it doesn't work, there should be a way to bring them back.  But I think it would work.  I think violent crime would decrease. 

Would you be willing to pay this price?

To clarify my position, the national registry of privately owned firearms needs to go the way of the dinosaur.  As do concealed carry permits.  If you are allowed to own a pistol, you should be able to carry it anywhere that its legal, anytime you want.  Make a notation on your driver's license that says you can own firearms, and that's it.  No registering of firearms.  None.

Kent
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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2006, 06:46:06 PM »

The bit about regulation is semantics, and I don't know what to tell you. I know what you mean, but the word regulation just pisses me off... :(
 
Somehow, we need to decrease the autos.  Somehow we need to make them harder for the bad guys in this country to get ahold of.  That include terrorists, as well as criminals, just so you know.  Getting rid of them is a sacrifice I am willing to make.  If it doesn't work, there should be a way to bring them back.  But I think it would work.  I think violent crime would decrease. 

Would you be willing to pay this price? Have to think on this more.. Right now I would have to say No.

To clarify my position, the national registry of privately owned firearms needs to go the way of the dinosaur.  As do concealed carry permits.  If you are allowed to own a pistol, you should be able to carry it anywhere that its legal, anytime you want.  Make a notation on your driver's license that says you can own firearms, and that's it.  No registering of firearms.  None. Yep... agreed.. If anyone who wanted to try to hold you up or commit a crime against you had to think ( damn I might get shot over this ) I am sure it might slow the crime a bit..  ;)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 06:47:41 PM by usks1 »
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2006, 06:55:15 PM »

The bit about regulation is semantics, and I don't know what to tell you. I know what you mean, but the word regulation just pisses me off... :(
 
Somehow, we need to decrease the autos.  Somehow we need to make them harder for the bad guys in this country to get ahold of.  That include terrorists, as well as criminals, just so you know.  Getting rid of them is a sacrifice I am willing to make.  If it doesn't work, there should be a way to bring them back.  But I think it would work.  I think violent crime would decrease. 

Would you be willing to pay this price? Have to think on this more.. Right now I would have to say No.

To clarify my position, the national registry of privately owned firearms needs to go the way of the dinosaur.  As do concealed carry permits.  If you are allowed to own a pistol, you should be able to carry it anywhere that its legal, anytime you want.  Make a notation on your driver's license that says you can own firearms, and that's it.  No registering of firearms.  None. Yep... agreed.. If anyone who wanted to try to hold you up or commit a crime against you had to think ( damn I might get shot over this ) I am sure it might slow the crime a bit..  ;)


And this is how the common ground is reached.  Not by knee-jerk reactions, but by intelligent discussion, and identifying a common purpose, which I think we have done.

I felt it necessary to post controversial statements earlier, in order to make my position a little more dramatic.  It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Kent
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usks1

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2006, 07:24:35 PM »

And this is how the common ground is reached.  Not by knee-jerk reactions, but by intelligent discussion, and identifying a common purpose, which I think we have done. It takes a little more time in text to say what we really mean.. We could have knocked this discussion out in about 10 minutes if we were talking about it. That would have left time for a beer or two and we still would have gotten home on time.  :)

I felt it necessary to post controversial statements earlier, in order to make my position a little more dramatic.  It seemed like a good idea at the time. It worked out fine.. Made for some good posting.

Take care

Dean.
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2006, 07:29:20 PM »

MMM...beer.


Kent
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tlouis

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2006, 07:36:18 PM »

I used to say an armed society is a polite society, but I am not so sure about that.I guess the rationale behind the statement is that no matter how big you are, you will have second thoughts about fucking with me if you know I am armed and willing to blow your head off. This is fallcious( I always wanted to use that word) because chances are you will go to jail for a long time for teaching such a bully manners!  Gangbangers are well armed and they sure are killing each other, they don't settle things politley. Ask someone in Somalia about the saying. Though I own and enjoy my firearms, I am for realistic gun cntrol that effectively reduces the ability of criminals to getting weapons.  Unfortunatley, even law abiding citizens will see their rights lessened. But it is the future. In order to make it harder for bad guys to get guns we have restrict their general circulation. That means less and eventually, no guns for the good guys.
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2006, 07:39:47 PM »

That means less and eventually, no guns for the good guys.

I refuse to believe that.

Kent
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tlouis

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2006, 06:01:16 AM »

I hope you are right Kent.
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usks1

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2006, 06:04:26 AM »

We will never be able to stop all violence and crime, guns or not.

Even the police and military do not stop violence.. The majority of the time the police respond to a problem after the fact. Their presence, and knowing they are around as well as the thought of what will happen if they get caught is what controls the bad guy. The military's presence is what helps to keep situations in control... The fear of the consequences for your actions is what keeps the peace.

If a bad guy is watching a certain area for potential targets, and during this watch he observes a high visibility of police, it is a pretty good bet he will move on. The same goes for alarm systems and neighborhood watch signs.. They let the bad guy know people are watching and that may cause him to move on. If he keeps looking he will find the place where no one is paying attention, do his job, and move on again to the next score.

I think the same goes for the armed citizen. It is not the gun they carry that stops crime, it is the fact that anyone he tries to rob may be armed that may deter him from the crime.

There will always be a down side to anything... No way to get all the stars and moons to line up behind you.... For every reason to do something, someone will come up with a reason not to do it.

It all comes down to your beliefs and how you want to live your life.

Comparing Somalia, or Iraq or other countries to America is really not a good example... Yet....

But take away our ability to fight, and only give weapons to the police, the military and the bad guys, and we may be in the same boat..

You will not stop the die hard killer or criminal.. But you may be able to make the lesser hardened criminal think before he commits the crime.

As for me I want to make the choice of whether I am able to fight back on a somewhat even playing field... I have the right to keep and bear arms, and that is what I am going to do.

This is a discussion, and we all have opinions... This is mine.

keep up the hard training.

Dean.
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Milldog1776

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2006, 12:06:32 PM »

I hate to break up this conversation with my observation of the poll....but.

The poll question makes no sense. It states:

Gun Control Needed or Neglected?

A. Need more Gun Control
B. Its an area thats neglected!


Aren't those two options the same thing? If we need more gun control, wouldn't that be an area that is neglected and in need of improvement?

Huh?
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tlouis

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2006, 01:08:52 PM »

I thought the same thing about the poll question. I agree that you can't compare countries. I guess I am just getting worn down by the gun control thing. It just seems like the handwriting is on the wall. I live in a place where you cannot even own a firearm, much less carry one. Thats another major problem- leaving gun laws in the hands of municipalities. It is insane. Whatever the future is. IMO it has to cover the entire country.
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2006, 02:08:59 PM »

I thought the same thing about the poll question. I agree that you can't compare countries. I guess I am just getting worn down by the gun control thing. It just seems like the handwriting is on the wall. I live in a place where you cannot even own a firearm, much less carry one. Thats another major problem- leaving gun laws in the hands of municipalities. It is insane. Whatever the future is. IMO it has to cover the entire country.

Where do you live?


Kent
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tlouis

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2006, 04:30:27 PM »

Chicago. There are ranges in some outlying towns but here is the catch. If going to the range you are stopped in a town that has a ban on gun ownership-you are breaking the law. now here is the weird part. I can buy a gun with a Chicago address but I can't actually take it into the city. Yeah-right. And cops will ask you if you have firearms in the car. Our govenor wants a total ban on handgun ownership in the state. I lived in Florida for a time had a permit to carry. Certainly differnt here.
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2006, 04:44:46 PM »

That doesn't sound constitutional at all.  I'm surprised no one has challenged it in court.


Kent
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tlouis

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2006, 09:38:16 PM »

Actually, I think they have in a case involving the village of Morton Grove, just outside of Chicago. And the law was upheld.
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Kentbob

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Re: Gun Control Needed or Neglected?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2006, 11:25:34 PM »

Actually, I think they have in a case involving the village of Morton Grove, just outside of Chicago. And the law was upheld.

SUCK!
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