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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • May 22, 2012, 09:19:57 AM
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Author Topic: SCARS? Peterson? Larkin?  (Read 12046 times)

Milldog1776

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SCARS? Peterson? Larkin?
« on: December 10, 2004, 04:10:36 PM »

Hi everyone,

wondering if anybody knows the real story about the SCARS program by Jerry Peterson? Just saw it on Ebay...and remebered there was a little fued going on years ago about the whole thing between Jerry and someone else. Or am I thinking of something different?

I actually have the old Hostile Control System tapes in my collection from way back when. Got 'em out and took a look. Boy...we've come along way with what's available today!! I look back at how much that cost back then...that was really a lot of money to me. Ahhhh, to be young and irresponsible again...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 10:28:34 AM by Hock »
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FDVargas0351

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 04:47:47 PM »

Peterson studied kung fu san soo briefly.  He repackaged it, and sold it as scars.  Peterson trained Lou Hicks, who repackaged it and sold it as SAFTA
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Truth is where you find it.

Joe Hubbard

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 11:11:29 PM »

Man you guys are going to open up a real can of worms here.  The last I heard about SCARS was the US Navy was sueing Peterson for his erroneous Navy SEAL claims.  Never heard anymore about it until I saw a Peterson instructor Tim Larkin on the SEAL Wall of Shame for further erroneous claims years back that he in fact was a SEAL.

http://charltondirect.com/originalpeterson.pdf)
http://www.socnet.com/archive/index.php/t-47063.html
http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/scars.htm - ( Phil Elmore review)
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,198.0.html
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5939.html
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,3981.0.html
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1650.html
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3260.html
http://scars.com/

Ciao

Joe
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 05:09:29 PM by Hock »
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Milldog1776

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2004, 12:10:41 AM »

Wow...I didn't know that Larkin was affiliated with Peterson. Interesting.

I didn't know all of this. I was just reminiscing.
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btuff

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2004, 01:51:41 AM »

For all the questions you need about SCARS see ... http://combative.www6.50megs.com/scars.htm
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2004, 02:14:41 AM »

I just read the whole thing.  I told you it was a can of worms!

Cheers

Joe

P.S.  Yes TRS did release the first SCARS tapes.  When they sold so well, Peterson got greedy and threatened TRS with a lawsuit for more royalties.  The head honcho at TRS agreed very quickly to turn over all the rights back to Peterson.  Little did Peterson know that the US Navy had just been on the phone to TRS giving them hell for false claims in their advertising!
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side"

Hunter S. Thompson

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Visit My Blog: http://joehubbard.wordpress.com

Milldog1776

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2004, 04:37:26 AM »

O.K. the link worked.

Wow, that's a lot of information!! Eye strain set in...thanks though.
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howe

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2004, 05:42:15 AM »

So what training is good for reality base easy to learn and works in different scenarios? I thought scars was good till i read the website.. But i havent got around to seing the tape yet..
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crazy jim

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2004, 07:53:42 AM »

I guess I'll weigh in here because I've had some experience with the Scars system. I had been in the traditional martial arts for many years, tae-kwon-do, shotakan, and lastly tang-soo-do. My last training was in tang-soo-do. Having been involved in a few street fights in my younger days, and boxed in several golden glove tournaments, I found the traditional martial arts lacking somewhat in practical application. When I tried to institute some combat scenarios and stress training into the dojo my instructer and I didn't see eye to eye. That difference in philosophies led to me leaving just short of my black belt test. That is when I discovered scars. At that time it was the only reality based training around (or at least I hadn't found any), and I bought into it hook line and sinker. I had several training partners and we trained hard core, with hard contact, I even attended his training center in Phoenix for a seminar. He incorporated a lot of good strikes and target aquisition areas , ie. eyes, carotid/vagus groove, groin etc., and he used many standard throws like the rear leg takedown, underarm. outer wristlock etc.,but my real problem was his technique oriented approach, and alot of eosoteric movements that would be very difficult if not impossible to execute in the chaos of a fight. During this time more and more reality based training systems were emerging, and that's when I found the SFC. Not to be too corney, but thats when my search ended, and my journey began. The huge difference between scars and SFC was the approach, as Hock puts it "fighting first,systems second". SFC emphasises the tools; strikes kicks,and takedowns and employs them in combat scenarios that lets you improvise your own techniques as each chaotic situation dictates.
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Hock

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2005, 09:54:25 AM »

There was some talk about SCARS and Larkin on this and other threads and it was mentioned that Larkin was on the SEAL "hit/hate list" for a while from reportedly his "whisper campaign" to people that he was once a SEAL. He has done a lot to try to rehab a relationship with the SEAL groups...because once they are after you. It is a very bad thing. Numerous people on the internet claim that early on, Larkin said he was a SEAL. Look up their claims and quotes. I don't know but it spurred the retired SEAL group to step up.

Anyway, I stumbled upon this from 2001...

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/1015/116.html
(wait thru the ad)

I have been in Forbes magazine a few times and this time the discussion of kidnapping and self defense. After massive, disjounted interviews they settled in on a two-pager you see.

Note Larkin listed as a former SEAL.....hardly a whisper.
Now one thing Forbes and few other big mags do is they have professional fact-checkers who call the subjects in the pieces and recheck every statement made. Him being a SEAL or not...in the media heyday of SEALs...I for one cannot imagine the Forbes author of the article and the fact-checkers, kinda screwing that up. I mean, they locked my experience down with padlocks for the article.

This probably contibuted to his problem with the SEALs. Of course it is real easy to refute the magazine by saying they made a mistake (after a million people now casually think you are SEAL anyway.)

They told me that Peterson was such an overbearing, obnoxious person that the piece kind of turned against him. I had no idea of this in the interviews. I don't know anything about Larkin at all, and really don't care.

Hock 

 
 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 11:54:30 AM by Hock »
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rside

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2005, 09:02:26 PM »

Jerry Peterson was my first martial arts instructor.  He was running a Kung Fu San Soo in San Diego in 1992 when I began my training.  His SCARS concept was developed by then,  and he sold the school a few months into my training.  I believe he was making more in private consulting/training.
He has a black belt under Master Bill Hulsey and Master ranking under Jimmy Woo himself, who brought San Soo to the U.S.  He had credentials.  In his SCARS ads, he claims that this system was developed in the jungles of Vietnam (he is a combat vet) and in the SCARS lab.  He learned it in a studio.  SCARS is San Soo taken off the deep end.  
If you want to learn about the real thing, visit Bill Hulsey's site at sansoo.com

Read more here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172095&highlight=safta
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 10:44:27 AM by Hock »
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SplCell101

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2005, 02:43:13 PM »

Yeah Tim Larkin, which everyone on here knows was Petersons student, has his own site its like Targetimpactweapons.com or something like that if anyone wants to check it out and he charges ungodly amounts of money for his tapes and to train with him. He posted comments on his site seriously bashing an excellent system that I crosstrain in (Fight/Haganah www.fight2survive.com) to promote his own. My opinion is that he might have a few good techniques but he's a disgrace to NavalSpecWar and h2h to me and that would inhibit me from learning from him. Just my opinion tho.


Jason
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gumbey

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2005, 04:35:06 PM »

Amen to that! When something is too good to be true, it usually is. Let the buyer beware.
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JimH

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2005, 09:02:15 AM »

A friend attended a Larkin seminar in New York.
The price was a joke and only a handful of people attended.
Larkin was upset at the low numbers and arrived late and left early each day.
The material he is throwing out is repacked SCARS,with all the rolling and the crap.

Larkin is not a disgrace to NavSpecOps he is a liar,plain and simple.
He lied to get into BUDs,as he had ear problems that required operations before he even entered the navy.
This condition ,he knew,would not allow him to pass the dive phase but he lied on his medical and took a spot someone else could have used.
Larkin did not get injured in training,which would have allowed him to return and redo BUDs,he was medically put out of BUDs.
Larkin was not rewarded  for having been a Great performer in BUDs,as all men who attempts BUDs are in the top 10 percent of the Navy,he was dropped like the majority who try.
Larkin hooked a Job in Administration.
His new BIO says he was put in charge of SEALS,LIES,the SEALS do not allow outsiders to tag along and have influence in their training and missions.
(He was a FAILED operator)

Larkins admin position is what got him the in with Peterson,who told Larkin he would make Larkin an instructor if Larkin could get SCARS a  foot in the door at NAV SPEC WARFARE.

Larkin spoke on Petersons behalf and got him to demo his stuff,as many other martial artists have done,this meeting allowed to Peterson to pay and or offer Instructorship in his SCARS.

The SEAL operators who were shown it said it was useless.
To get what was promised those in charge of training allowed SCARS to be done in A BUDS class,it was dropped right after.
It filled the  DEAL requirements,money and instructorship were paid and Peterson began running his ads which caused the Navy to take exception, as they did with Vunaks claims.

The Militaries allow many Instructors to come in and demo their stuff,this keeps the troops aware of what is being shown ,taught and sold in the world.

Again Special Operations, through all the branches, have and work minimum time in H2H,this is a weapon of LAST resort.
Most training in H2H is done in Phase one training,any training in H2H after an operator is qualified is at his choosing on or off base or during their PT sessions if a team member has some knowledge,(some men are picked to attend  varied training to get input on its validity and its usefulness)

What makes claims so rampant?
What constitutes actual training?
I know a guy who wrote a book in which he says he trained Special Forces troops.
When I spoke to him he said,"I had a martial arts school outside of Bragg and some Special Forces guys used to come and train".
Does that make his claim legit?
Should he be able to reconfigure the truth to make himself more marketable?
People read these claims and take it as fact and follow these liars.

Drop the claims,market the stuff and if it is good you will get a following,as Hock and many good guys have.
Use gimmicks, charge big money and show crap and you get no repeat business.(maybe this is why the sky high prices because the product stinks and repeat business does not occur)


 
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SplCell101

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Re: SCARS?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2005, 10:51:27 PM »

Couldn't have said it better myself Jim. I learned the whole story on Larkin about 4 months ago and feel the same way you do.


Jason
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