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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

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Author Topic: Base Art  (Read 9048 times)

Wild Bill

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Base Art
« on: September 22, 2004, 02:50:23 AM »

I like Hock's stuff but I need a base art to train in.  I want to train in an art that will compliment Hock's H2H.   In Austin there is every type of martial art you can think of including three different Wing Chun schools,  Gracie and Machado ju jitsu, at least two JKD schools, and about three different schools that claim to teach Mixed Martial Arts.

I am considering a career as an air marshal or other law enforcement but I am mainly interested in the martial arts as a hobby and not just training
« Last Edit: September 22, 2004, 02:53:08 AM by Wild Bill »
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Alex

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2004, 04:36:57 AM »

hey Wild Bill!

Try them all if you have that kind of access to schools. My belief is that you should experience as much as possible before making any decisions.  there's always omething to be gleaned from every situation, school or instructor.  You'll find the connections that make it fit into your own personal defence system. 
  What one art does for a person may not for another; some people like the grappling, some like weaponry or prefer empty hands..  I think it's important to be adept in all ranges and modes of combat.  Hock's SFC is geared that way.

but my experience with most martial arts is that you get attributes from each one you try.  Wing Chun; energy, flow and trapping/grabbing; Muay Thai; toughnes, basic striking skills and a wholle lotta conditioning; Karate; impact, power blocking and striking; Judo/Wrestling; ground skills and more conditioning; Fencing; quick (although linear footwork) Boxing; hand skills, footwork and defensive base; JKD:  some will have a mix of these skills others will be more "Bruce Lee Traditional"; Filipino MA:  weaponry; empty hands:

So there's lots to be learned from all; my suggestion is pick one that suits you best and have fun!
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2004, 07:21:32 AM »

Hey Wild Bill

If you are in Austin, look no further than Sifu Dean Goldade.  His art is Kajukenbo, which blends perfectly with the Congress stuff.  Dean is also a great guy and a fabulous teacher.  He can be contacted at: u.s.karate@verizon.net

Hope this helps

Joe
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seanross

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2004, 07:31:32 AM »

The good stuff truly knows no home.  My base arts are Praying Mantis Kungfu and Tai Chi Chuan.  I am continually pleased by how well chinese martial arts blends with the congress material and how often I find applications for moves I have been taught.  The essence of combat is the same no matter your style.  Participation in CQC has improved my traditional martial arts as well.
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BA

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2004, 01:26:07 PM »



      Since I first started training in the Martial Arts I have moved several times and had to find new schools to train at. These were things that I looked for in a new school and I think they will help you. Dont pick a school by a name or style alone, go to each school and see what they are teaching. Some people choose schools that are popular at the time but find later that the school doesnt work for them. I have met people that would only go to a JKD or Brazilian JJ school because they heard stories about those particular arts.  These people closed themselves off from some extremely good training at other schools because they didnt have the right name or title for them.  Be open and ivestigate, find a school and instructor that fits your personality and needs. A good instructor will be able to teach you all ranges of fighting no matter what style they teach. As you progress in your training and ivestigate other styles you will find many simularities in the different styles of martial arts. I could go on for a long time about this topic but I am sure get my point.

 Good luck,
 BA
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2004, 07:14:57 PM »

Hey Wild Bill

I recently read an article about Rickson Gracie’s limited time at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, California.  The author wrote about how all of Rickson’s classes only ever had 5-6 guys.  He went on to describe how Rickson openly invited anybody who was attending the class to join him for a special workout session at 6am everyday.  He explained that he and one other guy were the only ones to ever show up.  Well time passes and Rickson moves on to become an international superstar.  The minute Rickson left to pursue other things hoards of people wanted to know if he was teaching these small classes anymore.  Hock has told me similar stories of when he was teaching classes.  He was travelling all over States teaching large seminars, only to return to Dallas to teach 3 or 4 guys in a class.  Why?  Because it wasn’t around the corner from their house!  A friend of mine in London told me that when he was young (this guy is quite old now) and living in Oakland, California, he decided not to go to Bruce Lee’s school because it was 30 minutes down the road.  Man, if you knew just how good Dean was, you’d be travelling all day to get there.  Don’t wait, those who hesitate, meditate horizontally!  Check Dean out now, you are there man!

Respect

Joe

 
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Damien W

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2004, 09:41:58 PM »

I took a look at Dean Goldade's website.  His school looks cool but it is in Georgetown.  A 30 min. ride to a martial arts class is a bit excessive but it is good to know where he is.

Hi Wild Bill,

You guys are lucky to be in a position where you have choices, my dojo is 16miles away from me witha trek accross the city, sometimes up to an hour.

Joe, we met in London at Hock's seminar this year, I was talking to a guy on the tube who was in attendance at the seminar and I asked him does he train much with 'Joe'  :)
He again said that the other side of the city 30 + on a tube, long way... ???

I couldn't believe it, with the poor infrastructure here in Ireland we would love a train system that you guys have  :)

Different strokes for different....

Talk soon

Damien
Galway
Ireland
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Damien W

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2004, 08:29:26 PM »

Hey Joe,

Yea..saw that on his site..Cool! :)

Will do everything possible to get there!!!! (maybe yea might consider changing to the euro before that  ;D)

Might be able to hook up with you before that, will chat off list.

Any pictures from that seminar, checked your site but didn't see any.

Talk soon.

Damien
Galway
Ireland
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Trembula

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2004, 09:03:15 AM »

Hock's Blog for 23 September has his response to this topic.

In a few words, the CQCG material is "THE BASE ART." Things can't get any more basic than the essense of combat.

Using the CQCG material and philosophy as a screen to filter the "good stuff" out and see the limitations of other arts has helped me immeasurably since I became involved with the Congress/Hochheim Group. For the utilitarian minded individual or the cop/military man who just trains because it will help him stay alive to do his job, it gets all the bases covered adequately. And for the martial artist who commits himself to training as a way of life, it gets them frame to build on.

Another way to look at it would be to use an analogy that makes since to me from when I worked in construction. The CQCG material is the "shell" of the house. The basic material is the foundation, the intermediate material is the walls and framing, and the roof is the advanced material. Throw in a little wiring and plumbing and a house is inhabitable at this level.

PAC (and other martial combat systems) are the flooring, paint on the walls, cabinets, etc. that add richness, comfort and "beauty" to the house.

Your own experiences, personality, and abilities filtered through the above are the interior decorations, pictures, memories, and knick knacks that make that house your "martial" home.

Dan

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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2004, 09:45:58 PM »

Great metaphor Dan!

Joe
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usks1

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2004, 03:37:37 AM »

Hey guys thanks for the kind words.

Wild Bill,

Give me a call. We work Hock's material in our weekly classes, but also do weekend seminars and I also do private training as well. Give me a call, we can work it out.

Here is the phone number to the school.. (512) 869 - 2615

The next step is up to you.

Hope to hear from you.

Dean Goldade
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Hock

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2007, 09:55:19 AM »

On the base issue.

This is how a try to create a base. An example.
I look at a powerful karate puncher
I look at a powerful boxer punch
I look at a powerful kung fu puncher
I look at a powerful (fill in the blank) puncher.

What are the similarites?
The problems with?
What are the needs of the student.
What is the latest medical and scientific research, if any?

This is how I create a base tactic for a fighting system. The forging of these points.
It becomes a generic tactic with a history of references.

Now imagine all strikes, kicks, takedowns, ground fighting and modern weapons filtered through this process.
The essence of combat is the base. The base from which all flavors, outfits and nationalties then evolve from.

Hock

Hock

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2011, 12:06:29 PM »

Interesting to re-read...

Hock

Wild Bill

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2011, 09:33:24 AM »

This post really takes me back.  It was pretty important in my development as a martial artist.  It was through this post that I met Manoleisure (Rob)  He and another guy named Joe had been training on their own for a while and were looking for more training dummies….err…I mean training partners.  Rob was Silat at the time and Joe was JKD.  I had a background in American Kenpo and the defensive tactics taught to Air Force Security Forces.  In other words I didn’t bring much to the party.

I bought Hock’s Training Mission One DVDs and a couple of others but we never really worked more than a couple of drills.  It was mostly a JKD Concepts group.  Many people came and went but me and Rob trained pretty regularly up until last year when I moved to WA.  We were doing mostly Judo and BJJ at the time.  Well, Rob was doing Judo and BJJ, I was mostly trying not to die.  I have all of the grace and speed of a pregnant water buffalo.  Rob became a high ranking student in Silat before he switched to Judo.  I think he is a brown belt now.  Joe became a full JKD instructor.  I really miss those days.  The Best training I ever had was at Rob’s house. 

I even got to work out with Dean a couple of times.  I bought his Hawaiian Combatives DVDs and had planned to see him regularly before I crapped out financially.  Every time Hock would come to town I was either out of time or out of money. 

Ironically I am in a similar position today as I was in when I opened this thread.  I recently changed jobs and location and I’m looking to start training regularly again.  Unfortunately there is not a whole lot of choices in my area now.  Kelly Worden is not far from here and I am hoping to get some private lessons in the future.  Similar situation with Dean. Not really that far away but when you add up the traffic, cost of gas, and cost of training it’s just too much.  I got student loans to pay.  Man I miss my training buddies.
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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
                 - Ayn Rand

Hock

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2011, 10:35:43 AM »

But, try to do something  somewhere, even it is once a month.  Like a seminar or whatever. (Steve Cooke is out on the east side of Washington.)

Part of me does long a bit for the good old days, when I could lose myself in all those, like...endless, mindless stick drills, or just wrestle around on the ground night after night looking for tap-outs, back when I could just accept doing that. The 50 of this. The 30 of that. Or worrying about a kata.

But I can never go back. I am lucky enough to find people every week. But for everyone else, it is better to do something then nothing.

Good luck,
Hock

Hock

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Re: Base Art
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2011, 11:55:24 PM »

This has been looked at a bit lately.

ANnnnd...perhaps this link is once again needed...?

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,7361.0.html

Hock
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 11:57:23 PM by Hock »
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