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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • September 24, 2018, 07:10:36 AM
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Poll

Now suppose the following items are all available to you if you only have time to pick-up one, which do use.

An old fashioned rag mop.
- 3 (13.6%)
A pool cue.
- 8 (36.4%)
A large book.
- 0 (0%)
Your own knife.
- 4 (18.2%)
A holstered handgun but with your assailant now within twenty feet of you.
- 7 (31.8%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: October 01, 2006, 03:38:38 PM


Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“  (Read 12638 times)

410indashade

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I'm addressing the issue of an unarmed defender vs. the attacker armed with a knife or some type of sharpie.  I'm interested in what's been your experience.  And then I'll tell you mine.  Incidently, did  any of you read about Englands new, "Knife Amnesty" program?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2006, 03:38:38 PM by 410indashade »
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mleone

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2006, 05:17:09 PM »

You are going to get cut..

A person should really concetrate on minimizing the amount of times they get cut or stabbed as much as possible. While neutralizing the attacker with deadly force..

If you engage a knife fight you are going to get cut or even stabbed..
I strongly feel that students or instructors that say you won't get cut are selling magic...

Some are so stubborn to say "There is nothing one can do against a knife". This is purely defeatism..
You try and try and try to survive no matter what it takes...you keep going..

We assume our attacker is good with a knife or why are we even trying to train in the first place?
Their maybe times where some one walks away unscathed but Im sure its cases few and far between.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 05:38:17 PM by mleone »
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Karl

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 04:55:01 AM »

My View,

You will get cut,

depending on the way you are wired you will not feel it until it is over, one way or the other.

The hardest part i found about getting into a knife fight, try to prevent Tunnel Vision, control your breathing, don't freeze.


Stay Safe
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Nick Hughes

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 08:31:55 AM »

Aarghghghhhhhhhhhh,

One of my pet peeves.  Saying you will get cut is negative thinking, defeatist and also not always true.

I've been in fights with knives and yes, I've been stabbed/slashed etc.  I've also been in way more where I haven't had so much as a mark on me.  (As a general rule, if I saw it I was able to get them without being cut, when I didn't see the blade initially is when I did get hit)

So, the better, more accurate statement would be "you should prepare yourself mentally for the (very real) possibility that you MIGHT get cut in a fight with a knife."  The "you will" line leaves no other possibility than being cut by someone.

Remember, people using knives in fights run the gamut from the low end where some drunk, inept cretin pulls one out and waves it about as a threat only and has absolutely no intention of using it, even if no other choice is available to him...all the way to some hyped up maniac with prison or military experience setting out to get you.  While you'll probably get cut by the latter, the former will never get you and everyone else falls somewhere in between the two extremes.  What will happen then will be a result of your training, his training and his intent.

Nick
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Professor

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 08:56:03 AM »

You are going to get cut..


IT DEPENDS!!!!!!!    NOT NECESSARILY!!!!!
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JimH

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 09:07:41 AM »

LOL,as soon as I read the topic I knew what I was going to write, I see those who say you will get cut and I figure I am in and then I read Nick's post and see his view is the same as mine,shot out of the water,lol.

I agree with Nick,you may POSSIBLY get cut.

Unless you watch it cut into you ,you will not realize you were cut until it is over.(you will feel like you were punched) watching it cut may cause a higher adrenaline rush or shock,but it depends on the mindset going in.
If you fear the cut  or if you do not care about what happens as long as you win.

If you decide to engage then do it,period,no half stepping either go at it and end it or give up,as Nick says,if you are mentally saying "I will get cut" this will cause hesitation of action and result in most likely telegraphing your intent ,when you get the nerve ,to go forward.

I have been in 6 knife altercations:
 I got stabbed at from behind while choking one guy out from the rear and his friend tried to stab me,but I turned and the stab turned into a slash of my arm.
Felt like a punch till I turned and saw he had a blade,no blood till later.

A second time ,(I had been taught to grab the blade and I did) ,a single edge blade  sharp edge  up and the attacker pulled back and I almost lost my thumb.
Blade cut through the meat under my palm,through the webbing around to the top.right around the joint,about 340 of the 360 degree possibility.
I saw it happen and realized what happened but did not feel the pain till later, there was not much  blood during or after the cut and I was able to use the hand,(not to try and grab any more lol),but closed fist and open hand strikes were fine.
(who ever came up with grab the blade must be grabbing butter knives,lol)

I had a guy try to rob me with a static blade and never got cut.

3 other times I was able to use improvise weapons on the street,(trash cans twice and a burned chistmas tree once)

If you must act,ACT,do not hesitate and do not think of the possibilities prior to the act,just do it or not,your choice to be made in a nano second.
(Also never grab a  blade,lol)
                                          .........................................
While attempting to post the professor posted and I agree with him also.
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tlouis

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 09:21:36 AM »

Agree with Nick, Professor et all.. To say you WILL get cut is negative and, once agian it all depends on a lot of variables. I have seen and been involved in a few  knife confrontations and thats my take on it.
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Hock

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 04:49:23 PM »

(moved here to the knife topics)

Hock

410indashade

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 09:43:21 PM »

I can tell that like me and unlike some other "knife experts" you've all had the unenviable experience of fighting for your life.  You will not be surprised at my story many of you mentioned similar scenarios of your own.  But I think they give the lie to "you will" in the subject of this post. 

I saw my first incident of empty handed vs. knife in Vietnam.  In this case, an M7 bayonet had the hilt sawed-off for ease of concealment.  One night in our hooch a guest who was the very definition of “liquored up” or pretending to be got bellicose and offered to fight his host or anyone else in “@#$%ing” hut.  So, I spoke up telling them to lower the volume a little so those of us who preferred to turn-in early could do so.   As I stood there in my G.I. issue underwear and flip flops he drew his hideout piece and sprung at me.  It was monsoon season in the highlands and I had been trying in vain to dry mud red water out of my hair with a wet towel.  As he lunged at me, a distance of some seven or eight feet I threw the wet towel in his face and made a panicked retreat.  When the host a Staff Sergeant I never liked anyway intervened and grabbing the assailant’s knife hand with both of his  hands began kicking the assailant’s legs until he went down, dropping the knife.  Bottom line, I gained a new respect for the NCO that intervened and I learned a valuable lesson that would serve me well in the future. 

I had just descended the staircase into the basement family room where a friend of mine was throwing a birthday party.  Where I found two brothers who were fighting.  The smaller of the two apparently getting the worst of it broke an empty beer bottle on the edge of a pool table and went after his brother who was trapped between the table and a staircase.  I was off-duty and unarmed but confident that I could handle the situation,  hadn’t I already seen a similar situation in the service?  Keeping my eyes locked on my assailant at a spot centered on his chest area.  I had retreated a couple of steps up the stairs in this manner when the larger brother passed me climbing fast and stopped just above me.  Then two arms were snaking around my neck, to my surprise it was the brother who had passed me.  My left hand was now gripping his top arm trying to pull it down.  As I tried to continue my retreat from the “sharpie” this officer went down on my backside.  Feeling, rather than seeing the wall of the narrow stairwell come into contact with my passenger’s head (as I went down) I threw my own head back into his face for good measure.  The guy with the broke beer bottle wasn’t going to give me a break.  Even as I regained my footing the attacker closed the gap.  As he slashed at my throat with the broken glass I passed his right hand (his weapon hand) with my left and leaning to my left brought my right hand around to parry and grab his right wrist.  Twisting the wrist to expose the point of the elbow and the nerve bundle that’s just above it this officer struck down across the elbow with my left forearm.  This did not loosen his grip on the broken bottle; however, when this officer began banging the sharpie wielding wrist against the banister he dropped the improvised weapon.  The action took perhaps fifteen seconds. ~FINE

 
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Rawhide

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2006, 07:01:18 AM »

Chuck Norris got in a knife fight once.....


the knife lost.
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Milldog1776

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2006, 07:59:52 AM »

Chuck Norris got in a knife fight once.....


the knife lost.

Jack Bauer got in a knife fight once.....

The knife committed suicide rather than face the inevitable.

Gotta go with Nick on this one, fellas. Never develop a defeatists mentality going into anything.
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Rawhide

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2006, 06:55:11 AM »

MORE stories 410indashade!  He uses cool words like bellicose!! ALRIGHT! ;D  Great stroyteller!  More please!!  Arnold certainly has one as well? (he's a good story teller too - especially when he's demonstrating on you... its so....personal.)
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ghostrider

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2006, 06:44:39 AM »

I would agree with Nick....it's your attitude when facing a knife, gun, stick, or an angry guy with his fists. Mental strength is more important than just the physical when your fighting for your life. I have always told my students that even when you spar you should treat it like your life is on the line and by that I mean be serious about what you do. When it comes to training in self-defense there is no other way to be but serious because casual gets you hurt, crippled, or killed. There is no other way to look at it!
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arnold

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2006, 03:25:46 PM »

And if you go dancing you'll twist an ankle, skydiving you'll hit the ground, sledding you'll get cold. Might just as well stay home and watch old Barbara Streisand movies on an old TV. This way I can tape a see thru target to the set and shoot at her when the opportune moment arrives. Which should be about 30 seconds into the movie.
57 chanells and nothins on
And I always have an attitude, whether facing a knife, or trying to order ice cream at the local Braum's from someone just released from either the state hospital, or from the Katrina can't find a job program.
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Milldog1776

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2006, 03:50:01 PM »

or trying to order ice cream at the local Braum's from someone just released from either the state hospital, or from the Katrina can't find a job program.

Sounds like there might be a story there. Wanna share? Short therapy session?

Keith
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arnold

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2006, 05:53:45 AM »

Yes as a matter of fact, this does have a story line behind it.
Did anybod else see the "Stupid in America" on the tube last night? made me almost fall out of my chair. This leads into my last post about that you can't fix stupid.
And now, on with Mr. Arnold's Neighborhood

Back a few weeks ago, I decided, as I always do,to be a warm caring and understanding husband and take my dear wifey for ice cream. She decided for me that she wanted to go to the local Braum's/ Which forhose of you not from here ike the old market style version of the ice cream shop/Dairy Queen, serving burgers and the like, along with all osrts of other assorted dairy crap.
Anyway, as alwys, we arrive and there is a line of 4-5 people. You would have thought that they were being held up. 4 totally mindless clerks that must of just gotter hired out of the local state school program for the mentally handicapped/brain dead program, running around looking for God knows what, as I patiently wait in line. 5 minutes or so goes by and they somehow manage to get the first person his vanilla cone, Saints preserve us. 1 down, 4 to go. The next is a young hispanic couple, probably illegals, wanting taco flavored ice cream or some shit. Nobody speaks spanish, ortex-mex or anything even closely resembling whatever dialect of drivel they were mumbling. Another 10 minutes, and these 2 manage to make it out to  their makshift pick up/illegal transport/lawn care who knows what and pull out and run into a car in the lot.
You would have thought there was a shooting. Every morons from behinf d the counter had to go out and look at it. The 19 year old 350 pound refugee from Katrina, stood there picking her nose, wonder what the hell she should do. The immense 450 pounder in front of me said "call the cope, let them handle it". Oh my God, an intelligent statement fromn the one directly in front of me.
I just knew it was too good to last, as she proceed to place her 12,000 calorie order.
"I'd like 3 scoops of blajh, with extra blah, nuts, more blah, could you put that in a larger dish blah, carmel, chocolate, vanilla cherries blah" They all just stood there like deer in the headlights. I just knew she was going to have to go and order allover again. Now 4 peple are working on this gastronomic concoction, dropping falling, slipping and just ingeneral, fucking up Godzilla's order. As I'm watching this show take place, I'm trying to remain calm as rolls of her fat are trying to jump out of her spandex, yes spandex pants. She turns to look at me, with her 5x5 dimensions and arms out at a 45 degree angle as her ass is larger than the average 71 Buick ( see previous post) and says, "I want what I want" My wife tells me to be nice. Be nice, I haven't said a thing and it's taken me almost 1/2 an hour to get a stinking ice cream. I couldn't stand it any longer and answered  Godzilla with, "well that's pretty obvious" You would have thought her head exploded. She wheeled around and pointed a sausage sized finger at me and told me I didn't understand Fat people. Yes I do, you're fucking fat, and disgusting, plus you smell bad because you probably can't get yor arm around your 80 inch hips after taking a dump. Which when you do, you probably have to file an environmental impact statement and notify the treatment plant that a major surge is coming their way. So turn you fat ass around, get your 12,000 calorie treat, throw you groos ugly butt into that pile of shit you drive, and go back to he dump you live in and inhale your treat as you watch reruns of 10 year old Oprah shows.
My wife turned green. Godzilla now speaks. "well I never" and at this point I cut her off. "Bullshit lard ass" Get the hell out of my face before I harpoon your fat ass" She grabbed her 43 pound sundae and hit the door.
Finally it's my turn. The zit faced victim of the local school system is now making an attempt at taking my order. "I would like a small Heath bar mix with vanilla ice cream, please" You would have thought I'd asked him to quote the periodic table of elements. "Huh" was his reply. OK, let's try it again. Get a small steel mixer, place some vanilla ice cream in it, along with 3 scoops of crushed heath bar, stick it in the mixer for about 20 seconds. Shove the whole thing in a small cup and give it to me along with a plastic spoon, as there are none here at the counter. "Huh" "Holy fooking shit Batman" "get your manager, you're too stupid to be breathing. So the older manager, who must have bee all of 21, takes my order. I repeat the whole thing, she manages to get it to me in record time. except one small detail, it has chocolate ice cream. AHHHHHHHHH. I asked for vanilla ice cream. "well you know we are busy and people make mistakes. "you're right" I responded, I came here thinking i was going to be able to place an order in plain english and get a simple request, but I was wrong" Finally after almost 40 minutes, I get what i came for. In the meantime my wife's order is already done and she is sitting ther smiling at me waiting for my cute self. I go to check out. I repeat what she had, as she gets the same thing every time, and tell them what I have as it's right in front of me. The register at this precise moment stops working. You would have thought that Armageddon had started. They could not figure out what to do."well, I'm going over to get my ice cream before it melt, when you figure out the cost, come and get me. They never came and got me. I approached the counter. I asked what my bill was. The manager blankly stared at me. "It's free" she stated. So I grabbed my wifey ever so gently by the arm and got the hell out ofthat zoo.
Moral of the story, buy ice cream at Wal Mart, and the tv show was right on 2countsand wrong on other. The schools do suck,correct statement, the treachers union is a joke, correct again, and the kids are not stupid, wrongo on this one.
Makes me tired just thinking about it. No wonder I take so many meds.

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I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

410indashade

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2006, 08:20:51 AM »

You are going to get cut..

A person should really concetrate on minimizing the amount of times they get cut or stabbed as much as possible. While neutralizing the attacker with deadly force..

If you engage a knife fight you are going to get cut or even stabbed..
I strongly feel that students or instructors that say you won't get cut are selling magic...

Some are so stubborn to say "There is nothing one can do against a knife". This is purely defeatism..
You try and try and try to survive no matter what it takes...you keep going..

We assume our attacker is good with a knife or why are we even trying to train in the first place?
Their maybe times where some one walks away unscathed but Im sure its cases few and far between.



Come on guys everyone who logs on should have an opinion on this?
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kamagong

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2006, 10:08:11 AM »

Arnold, can you get a hernia from laughing so hard?  ;D
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arnold

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2006, 05:57:34 AM »

Yes you can. But, since you now have had a look at some of the information in the super secret book, buy a purple t-shirt, have printed on the front "I fucking get it". And wear it to the next meeting you disrupt of the democratic party. Let them try to think what you are talking about. Sorry about all of the spelling and other crap lately, but there is some glitch in my wifey's computer that starts this nonsense.
Oh well, did anybody else have to shampoo the carpet this morning? Hmmm. And I still feel like a bag of smashed assholes. ( I haven't found anymore Nick, but as soon as I do, I'll get you some) Just went to class last night and sat and watched as it felt like my feet were not attached to my legs. The doctors are sending me for more test this am. Probably want to x-ray my head, which as most of you know, they won't find much. At the last seminar, I was only about 75%, luckly for some, and have just continued to slide. Now they are saying that it could be do to the shock that I took when I got hit by lightning?! All I want to do is get back into class and beat on a few well deserving individuals. Yes, enlightning you fair readers with my wit and wisdom delivery daily is challenging at times, but I deemed it needed to be done.
The crap that you are bombarded with on a day to day basis is overwhelming, but I, yes I fair readers am up to the challeng of providing you with the truth.
I may start my own blog, but I think I will just throw tidbits of "Arnold truisms" at you time to time. That along with other stories of the great adventures and truly overwhelming challenges I face on a day to day basis. It's 74 degrees in the house and I am sweating my ass off. Good thing I have a big one. Man, I hate this shit.
But I will leave you all today with one thing

YA CAN'T FIX STUPID
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I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

Rawhide

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2006, 08:29:09 AM »

Arnold wasn't 100% last week but he DID drop by which was nice.  He was also first to volunteer to be a replacement partner for one of my students who was dealing with my over zealous wrestling friend as we did some basic ground work.  He was even kin enough to demo a technqiue of him after class!  What class, what dedication!  Arnold is first rate ya'll. 

Yeah, I think I got a hernia from laughing too much as well! ;D
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usks1

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2006, 08:09:07 PM »

the 21 foot rule is o.k. if you have Dan Inosanto running a 40 yard dash at you, and you don't move and try to draw and fire..

Joe knucklehead is not gonna run a 4 second 40, and is probably not trained... And I am gonna move and draw and fire till the slide locks back... Then slam in another clip and do it again...

Aside from the gun, I would be happy with a pool cue due to the length and then maybe a chair or two... A couple of beer bottles to chuck at the bad guy....  Some beer to spill on the floor so he slips on his way to me..... Anyway... I would rather shoot him, but I will be glad to knock the shit out of him.

Have a great weekend...
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Milldog1776

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2006, 10:50:08 PM »

Some beer to spill on the floor so he slips on his way to me..... Anyway... I would rather shoot him, but I will be glad to knock the shit out of him.

Have a great weekend...

You can't spill beer on the floor. Carl will lap it up before the badguy gets there. ;D
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410indashade

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2006, 11:05:27 PM »

You didn't pay attention usks1 the scenario specifically states "within twenty feet."  I know I can do it(just) from the draw or from the table at eighteen to nineteen feet any closer and it gets into a wrestling situation which is problematic at best.  Have you tested yourself do you know at what distance you can draw and fire on average taking the three best times out ten with live rounds or sims.  I'll bet most of you don't.
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410indashade

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2006, 02:22:28 PM »

This is a two part question.  So far on the second part of the question the poll responses are running 2 to 1 against using a gun to defend yourself against a knife at under 21 feet.  This reflects an understanding of one of the limitations of a gun.
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JimH

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2006, 05:27:48 PM »

The majority of people with a pistol ,on the outside,in a holster (mostly police) are not able to draw ,aim and fire at a suspect armed with a drawn knife running at them,within 21 feet,many tests have even shown most officers cannot draw,aim and fire and hit the suspect when the distance is expanded to 31 feet.

The Key is for the officer to move off line,zig zag,and or find a position of cover or create an obstacle between they and the suspect.(the obstacle can be a car, a light pole,a tree,anything that provides time to delay the suspect and give time to draw)

The knife is always sited but the draw against a suspect with any weapon at the ready at 21-31 feet most times delivers the same result.
(This means the suspect can have a bat,a pipe, a stick a whatever weapon)

A citizen with a concealed weapon will have to allow even more time to draw,aim and fire,or draw ,point and fire if the person is weapons proficient.
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410indashade

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2006, 07:45:14 PM »

I grant you that most officers would have difficulty even clearing leather inside 21 feet JimH but the answer is more realistic practice.  For those times that cover is not available and an immediate response is necessary.  Even if it devolves into a contact shooting, this is something we practice.  And it behooves lawfully armed citizens to practice  it too.  Just don't give up on draw and point method because most authorities eschew it as a "cowboy" move. 
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arnold

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2006, 05:38:38 AM »

Ah, shooting sports. Went to the farm the other day to do some practice blasting with my step son and his father in law. Mike ( father in law) is a pretty cool guy. Lost his leg in Nam from just above the knee. They never figureed he would live this long,  but he jsut celebrated his 62 birthday. His internal parts are also all rearranged as many parts had to be removed, He still carries around a bunch of metal in him. I've watch this man work his ass of stringing fence as he stumped along and never complained. He is one of the real heros, not some sports clown that overdosed on some perscription meds or some other winey crap that the news deems to be worthy.
My step son asked me if they actually could fire 2 45's at the same time like he saw in a Bruce Willis movie ( cool movie, "the Last Boy scout" favorite line, head or gut, that will be for another topic) but not above mentioned movie. Sure. Placed targets at 50 feet, drew both pistols at the same time and unloaded 16 rounds into the target. All hit in the kill zone. Did the quick underarm reload and did it again, all in less than 10 seconds. See, I knew I should have been a movie star.
And you can go on about how you wouldn't have to reload your glock, but when the movie was made, they didn't exist. So nahhh!
Then, just because I could, showed them the fine art of a 5 gal propane tank, a box of 22's, and a blue tarp. A bunch of the tress Mike wanted down are no longer a problem.
As we were heading back home, we passed a Braum's. Vision's of land bohmoths raced through my head. Not today, let's just get a burger at the local eatery.
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JimH

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2006, 07:53:38 AM »

Yes ,the answer is always more practice but the realities for the majority of officers,military and civilians are that they believe because they go once a year and shoot at paper that they are prepared,and this is a sad fact.

How many officers,military,no less civilians,who carry a weapon see the need for H2H?
Not many,even though they have been told and many shown that within 21 feet they might have to go to something besides the pistol,they all,for the most part say "I have a pistol" as if that is the be all and end all of an encounter.

I have over a dozen current and former family members on a major NY Police department and they only shoot/shot when directed to by the department,1 sometimes 2 times a year,they only shoot paper,under low to zero level stresss.
The former ones still carry and most times do not even fire once a year for their own benefit,they say "hey I carried for over 20 years I know the weapon and myself",when I say "yeah but when you were on the job you didn't wear glasses to read and drive either yet you think you can shoot the same",they just laugh.

I do not carry a pistol any more,but I go frequently (a minimum of twice a month) and fire off 200-300 rounds of pistol work alone each time I go.
(I also try to go once a month and shoot rifle and shotgun with 100 rounds  of shotgun on trap shooting)

The sad fact is the pistol has many believing that  the only requirement is to carry it, and it will be there to save them in an emergency even though no training is done,or minimum training is done on their part,even after they are shown they can be gotten to easily from 0-30 feet.

That I am sorry to say is the Sad reality for the vast majority who carry,be they Police,Military or Civilian,they do not and will not train in their weapons systems be they H2H,Baton,improvised weapons or Pistol.
(even though all who carry say they need nothing else because they carry,you would imagine this would be the area of focus and it is not).
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410indashade

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2006, 03:02:01 AM »

It is sad but too true! 10-4 and out
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Shogun79

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Re: “If you engage in a knife fight you're going to get cut.“
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2006, 06:33:36 AM »

You are so correct.  On my department we shoot once a month.  Pistol every month, shotgun every other month, and rifle every other month.  There are some on the department that feel once a month is not enough, so we shoot more.  Our department has its own range, and guys can go down own their own time to shoot.  Most won't.  Just as most won't practise with their baton, or their unarmed subject control.  We only train/practise twice a year for unarmed combatives.  That could range from arrest and control tactics to ground defense, or edged weapons.  I wished we would/could do more with the airsoft and simunitons we have.  We usually do airsoft and sims once a year.
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