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Author Topic: Commando Krav Maga - Moni Aizik  (Read 13730 times)

Wardog

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2006, 10:09:40 PM »

 Any critiques of the Haganah/FIGHT system? Which is an offshoot of Krav. Just curious if anyone here has trained in it.
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bbwolf

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2006, 12:02:10 AM »

Hock,
I do believe the school I trained at was tied to the LA School. I'll admit the slick, corporate feel of the place had me a bit wary and I wondered if it was all truely hype. Previously, I had heard of it as a less traditional, self-defense oriented sytem. I had heard all of the "military" hype, but went in knowing that it was going to be modified for civilians. The head instructor at the school I trained at said so when I first talked to him. I didn't experience the "Amway" feel as much as I had heard about from people who went to other Krav schools.  As the school had recently opened, the cut me a really sweet deal, and it was five minute from my house. The only reason I stopped training with my old school is the school kept moving north of town and I kept moving south. My work schedule at the time would not have allowed me to make classes at the current location. Dean is a fantastic teacher, and if time allows, I'd train again with him in a minute. Anyway, I ignored most of the hype, looked at the techniques I was being taught, and they were sound techniques that would be useful in a self defense situation. There was not a lot of "military" stuff in it, other than the simplicity of the techniques in order for people, often with no MA experience, to become compatent at in a short amount of time. I agree that a military-only based system is not always a good thing for the civilian world. I've studied Fairburn and Applegate's WWII-era military H2H manuals, and while many of the techniques are simple and effective, they might also get you charged with manslaugher or aggravated assault unless you found yourself unarmed in a very dire situation where lethal H2H techniques would be justified. It also provided a good workout. It worked for me. It might not work for everyone. The school I attended was run by some good people who were also good instructors. As for the politics, I tried to stay out of it. Actually, never heard my instructors talk much about it or badmouth other schools. I took from it what worked and added it to my "toolbox". Right now I'm not training anywhere, except at home,  but when I get back to a school, I may go back to that school, or check out another in the area.Krav Maga teaches defense aginst weapons, but not much weapons training, and I miss that. I'd love to drive up to Georgetown and train with Dean again, but time and gas money just do not allow it right now. I am in complete agreement that it all needs to be stripped down to its essance in order to make it work for you. I took what they taught and tweeked it to what worked for me. My instuctors never seemed to mind, only correcting my form, to make what ever I was doing more effective. I was very upfront about the fact that I was not going to leave previous training at the door, nor was I asked to. I just had to show a mastery of the techniques taught in order to rank me at the test.  They wern't very dogmatic, certainly not as much as some of the TMA schools I trained at as kid and teen. I don't believe that Krav Maga is the end all be all Self Defense system out there because it was based on military techniques, or because it got a lot of hype. In my own experience with it, I went to a good school that was training their people well. Sure, they had the "Cardio Kickboxing " set there, who only trained in the fitness-focused classes, but, "Cardio Kickboxing" and kids' classses is what keeps the doors of many schools open so those of us who are serious about working on our self defense skills can train. I'll admit that the LA affiliated schools have one hell of a marketing team, but despite all of that, I found the Krav classes to be teaching sound techniques, and would show people how to adjust some of them to personalize them to make it work for them. Its a school that I would recomend to people and if the system was taught elsewhere the way it was at that school, I would recomend the system, if someone asked. I'm not going to go preaching the wonders of Krav Maga over all other systems because I don't believe that. I can't say that they have some secret knowledge or techniques that make them better than anyone else, because I did not see any. Getting past the hype, I liked the way they taught the classes and some of the approaches they took. Basicly what I'm trying to say is, from my own experience with Krav Maga, if you ignore all the bells and whistles, there's some good stuff to be learned there, but I would not call it the "most effective H2H system ever devised!" as some might hype it.    
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 01:36:32 PM by bbwolf »
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JimH

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2006, 09:42:12 AM »

Wow,Moni the Jesus Christ of Krav Maga?
I have trained with Moni and I like him, his materials and applications (Mainly because it is similar to what I do),but Moni's Krav Maga is Combat Jujitsu pure and simple.

If we say He has a different spin on what is and what should be street applicable I agree,but the "Jesus christ"????

Hey,then again, if the Beatles and Eric Clapton can be God or as popular as Jesus Christ then why not Moni Aizik,the Israeli of Jewish Faith,closer to the Original I would guess,lol.
                                  ..................................................................
Haganah/Fight is also a nice system,also very Combat Jujitsu oriented,they teach in Blocks,but the goal is to sign you up for long term repeated Blocks after the first couple lessons "so you can really learn the Blocks as instructed",no rank or proficiency levels are given,there are only Instructors/Assistants and Students.
I met Mike and Have his materials ,very nice Man,nice materials,but I have not taken class nor do I meet the criteria to take instruction to become an instructor as I am an assistant Instructor at my school and you must be a school owner with a current student base so you can sell the video sets.
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Hock

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2006, 08:34:09 AM »

If we say He has a different spin on what is and what should be street applicable I agree,but the "Jesus christ"?


What if Bruce Lee suddenly moved to Oklahoma City and started doing JKD seminars in the USA? What would that do to the JKD world - all the established teachers, schools, franchises and experts and students? Most students would quickly train with Bruce Lee himself, leaving all established JKD people in a scamper and a confusing, business funk. To the JKD world, their Jesus just moved Oklahoma.

To the worshippers of magic, perfect Krav Maga....to many of the people who have been attached to the Las Angeles Krav Maga and heavily burdoned by the financial aspetcs...many admittedly trapped...then...someone like Moni comes along and offers better, serious, unquestionable lineage for a no tithing, no-strings-attached affilation to "worlds best military" and the "worlds best" fighting system? Cheap seminars? Cheap affilaition? No tithing?

Moni is a like a Jesus Christ, a savior to these people. Bruce lee is now in Oklahoma! Elvis has not left the building! (and of course I say that in complete satirical jest..well almost.. because these new arrivals like Moni and a few others to North America, from the blessed, revered homeland of the "best fighting" system found anywhere in the planet, have really put a kink in Los Angeles Krav's plans and monopoly.

Hock


Hock

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2006, 07:09:01 PM »

"...by the way, they were affiliated with Krav Maga which left a very bad taste in their mouth. The financial relationship was a disaster..."

As an coincidence...this email quote came in to me today from someone who doesn't read this forum and was just reporting about an opportunity for him to teach. The details he gave are the usual ones I hear.

Hock   

Plantman

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2007, 07:15:45 AM »

For anyone interested, the whole issue of LA owning the name Krav Maga in the US has been settled and they lost.

No one owns the name. Period. If I understand it correctly, they may appeal to the California supreme court.

I suspect that you will be seeing more IKMF and IKMA schools, as well as Moni opening up schools throughout the country.
This ruling will affect the LA groups bottom line undoubtedly.

I was looking for the " Israeli martial arts issues" thread to post this but could not find it.

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arnold

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2007, 08:07:11 AM »

All of thia blather makes me think we should all get on the bus and watch cartoon re-runs of "Quick Draw McGraw" IMHO.....WFC
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whitewolf

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2007, 08:11:31 AM »

hello from kuwait-thought i  would add a  little  here  about KM-I  took  my first KM class in New Jersey  in 1980 (yes-1980)  over the years i ran  into different instructors in KM-some good  some  not so  good.
Recently I participated in a  weeks  class in  Carcavelos  Portugal with the KM  club and the cheif  instructor of  KM for all Portugal-Dangerous instructor-great  instruction-class consisted of  local police/prison  guards/and regular  citizens both  female  and  male-the instruction given  was lessons  on
comming  out  of  a  altercation alive and the winner-it all boils  down  to what  is shown and how  it  is presented and in this case the instructor gave a lot  of instruction in the mental aspect of  winning-i guess this goes  a  little off the  subject  of  DVD instruction  but wanted  to pass this  on for  what  is  worth.
stay   safe-whitewolf
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arnold

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2007, 09:21:18 AM »

The Mental aspect of winning... whatever happened to just a good old fashioned ass whuppin? I never quite understood ( big surprise there) all of this mental hocus pocus crap. Oh well, just more of the wonderfulness of me
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I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

Hock

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2007, 05:18:06 PM »

I suspect that you will be seeing more IKMF and IKMA schools, as well as Moni opening up schools throughout the country. This ruling will affect the LA groups bottom line, undoubtedly.

Oh probably? It will damn near kill it. Los Angeles Krav was already in a tumbling, free fall, world-wide as other KM people came upon the world scene. I mean, why pay those ridiculous LA prices!

Now...any martial arts military buff will sit and watch for the Korean and Okinawan phenomona, these last two years. That is, watch as ANY freaken', jake-leg from Isreali that crosses the ocean becomes a worthy master/superstar. 

But LA Krav? While it will always be around to some extent, it will have way less of an impact in the MA scene. In other words? In Wall Street terms?  Sell your LA Krav stock NOW, if you haven't already in the last year and a half!

Hock

usks1

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2007, 03:58:17 PM »

You know... Maybe I am mis-informed, not well read enough.... Whateva..

But I wanna know what is so damned great about Krav??

I have seen their tapes, read their books, trained students that have left there and came over to work with me, picked their brains for the magic.. I even watched a few classes at the local Krav Depot.

Maybe Moni Azik is the real deal, or maybe he just teaches people how to whup ass... Ain't that what we all do? Is it the name... The magic art from the land of truth... The Moosad persona... Can't be the cammies... Everybody is wearin them.

Somebody enlighten me....... Or maybe just pour me another Jack..  And make this one on the rocks. :P
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2007, 04:31:46 PM »

Ah grasshopper...glad you asked.

It is the 'grass is always greener syndrome' and in this case, sad to say, a lot of Americans believe that if something has "Israeli" stamped on it, it must be the be all and end all of the known world.

This stems from the mistaken belief that the Israelis are God's gift to the planet in the field of combat because their tiny nation has been surrounded by the enemy for a long time, their performance in the six day war, and their ongoing struggle against terrorism including their rigorous security measures with regards to airline security.

When you peel back the layers however all is not as it seems.

To whit...

I don't rate them in combat at all.  There hasn't been anytime in history I'm aware of when they've fought well (more on the six day war in a moment) against anyone worth a damn.  Please elaborate if you can find an instance...I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong.

Re the six day war...it was won only because of air domination and the planes they used were provided courtesy of us.  Without those planes they'd have lost that war hands down.

Re being surrounded and surviving.  I don't care unless the enemy you've been beating is someone noteworthy.  Again, the arabs have never been famous for anything with regards to warfare except the Germans and the Brits during WWII did recognize them for their disloyalty and general untrustworthiness...I believe the phrase was "they'd sell their own mothers if it would make them money" 
If I went out and whooped 4000 people would it matter if they were all seven year old kids?  Or would it be more impressive if everyone you dropped was armed and dangerous and a world beater?  The Arabs are more reminiscent of the former, not the latter so I'm reserving judgement till they take on someone good.

Want further proof of the above just look at their recent lamentable and dismal performance against Hezbollah in Lebanon.  Everyone round the world said "watch out, Israel's gonna kick some arse."  I said "bullshit, watch what happens."  Sure enough, they left with their tails between their legs and many of their top commanders have had to resign.

How about their security measures that everyone touts as amazing.  Sure, but El Al averages fifty flights a week.  American carriers are doing thousands every hour.  If we only put fifty flights in the air a week nationwide 9/11 wouldn't have happened because we'd have had the luxury of time to screen everyone as they do.

Nope, not impressed by them, and never have been.  (Now, I do admire their struggle but there's a huge difference between admiring someone and being impressed by them)

Regarding Krav...yep, very underwhelming.  I saw their tapes many times and everyone was raving.  I went in with eyes open expecting to see something amazing.  What I saw was a left jab, right cross, hook and uppercut from western boxing, a hammerfist from karate/kung fu, some front, groin, side kicks from any basic martial art, some basic ju-jutsu escapes from holds (that are in a thousand books on the subject) and some, frankly, piss poor knife defense, one of which involved kicking someone under the chin brandishing a knife at your belly.

Just as an aside...one of my mates (and I have several who practice and like KM) was in a dispute with them over teaching kids self defense as they don't have much of a kid's program to speak of.  They were trying to tell him that he was teaching proprietory KM techniques so he had me lend him copies of my extensive library to prove that EVERY SINGLE TECHNIQUE he was teaching, that they claimed were theirs, were in those books, some of which were printed before Israel was formed in 48.

Now, does that not mean there's no good KM practitioners?  Nope, not at all.  Ryan Hoover, Ernie Kirk, and Kim Vigsbo spring to mind but, like any art, it's the singer and not the song (to a degree :)).  Those guys would be good no matter what art you had them practice (in fact, all of them have extensive TMA backgrounds). 

So yes, there's no real magic KM technique that isn't featured in a hundred different systems.

N
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Hock

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2007, 07:21:49 PM »

Moni Azik

Oh, and I don't think he is all that special. But he was a special forces veteran. That's cool.

To those who look at Krav with glazed -over eyes? He is VERY special.  He certainly is more special than a bunch of desk jockeys and ballroom-based, martial arts dancers.

And he is a nighmare of several immigranting, nightmares to the LA Krav franchise business.

Hock

usks1

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2007, 07:47:36 PM »

Moni Azik

Oh, and I don't think he is all that special. But he was a special forces veteran. That's cool.

To those who look at Krav with glazed -over eyes? He is VERY special.  He certainly is more special than a bunch of desk jockeys and ballroom-based, martial arts dancers.

And he is a nighmare of several immigranting, nightmares to the LA Krav franchise business.

Hock

Well God bless him then.. At least he is teaching real shit. May he be the demise of all the fad bullshit schools that preach the way of the Lipma, but teach the way of the idiot.

But that still doesn't put him ahead of anybody else we know teaching real shit..

I choose to train with those I know and trust.... Even if they are just damn North American uneducated folk.. :o

And of course that was a smart ass comment...  ;)  I train with those I know and trust... The rest can kiss my uneducated naive ass.

Just my $2.00

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" I see people doing all kinds of crazy stuff.. Eatin razor blades and sh--t.. But I wanna know.. Can he fight?? "

Moses Powell ( RIP ) - The warrior within

usks1

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Re: Combat Krav Maga - Moni Aizik
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2007, 07:56:36 PM »

Hock,
Do you remember a few years ago when we did the CQC camp at my place?

Remember the Krav / Fight guy who came in with the black turtle neck trying to recruit me to the Israeli cause?

Then he looked on the floor and saw what we were doing.... He gave me a strange look, and then I told him... " We are not your average Karate school"...

Never heard from him again...... Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

He was an L.A. branch guy who was trying to take over Texas...... Failed miserably.

That's what he gets trying to come into my school and be tough without a purple shirt...

Over and Out..

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" I see people doing all kinds of crazy stuff.. Eatin razor blades and sh--t.. But I wanna know.. Can he fight?? "

Moses Powell ( RIP ) - The warrior within
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