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  • May 22, 2012, 09:34:41 AM
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Author Topic: Karv Maga  (Read 1682 times)

Adventure

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Karv Maga
« on: December 14, 2004, 10:00:13 PM »

Does anyone if Karv Maga is worth training in? There is a school near my home in San Diego where I could train with people who want to train more reallity based, but after read the blogs tonight, it sounds like they might be an other "50 Suckers".
Any advise would be great.

David Adventure.

worth

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2004, 10:12:57 PM »

I just finished reading a book on Krav Maga by David Kahn.  Depending upon your previous mixed martial arts background depends upon whether you should take Krav Maga or not.  It is a very potent street fighting weapon using kicks to the legs, knees, groin, eye strikes, multiple mixed elbows strikes, slaps to the face, etc.  Go to Barnes and Noble and pick up a book and look at and then decide.  For me, I've had training on everything that was in the book and the next step is to put on gloves, headgear, chest and knee pads, and get it on.
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acherrin

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2004, 12:13:12 AM »

I trained in Krav Maga for about a year, and found it very worth while.  To me, it seemed that your focus was on leathal contact with multiple opponents simultaniously, with and without leathal weapons being used against you.  It is a very practical style of fighting.  You should be constantly in posistions where the competition is 1 on 1, 2 against you, 4 against you.  I found this training, in combination Jiu Jitsu, will bring a novice (which I was) to well prepared very quickly.

As a side note, I studied at Pow Martial Arts in Chicago... They were good at teaching and training, but horrible about running a business (poor billing, not friendly at all customer service, bad salesmanship).
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2004, 01:03:50 AM »

Most KM stuff I have seen reverts back to Jab, Cross & Hook with an elbow or two.  They also seem to like the bob & weave; for the street???  They talk a lot about eye gouges and other cool street stuff (see Hock’s Big Talk, Little Do Theory), but sadly just revert back to the same old kickboxing structure while standing and tight grappling while grounded.  I am sure if you had a good teacher who was presenting the material in a logical progression, KM could be a useful system.  Unfortunately KM suffers from franchise and “tithing your income” to the point of rendering their instructors bankrupt and unable to operate in their areas.  I have heard that a lot of disgruntled KM practitioners have moved over to F.I.G.H.T. because of these continuous problems.

Cheers

Joe


P.S.  I also have heard from a reliable source that the KM that is presented in their expensive Holywood storefront premises has nothing at all to do with the Israeli military combatives.
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Bri Thai

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2004, 01:51:13 AM »

Krav seems to suffer from its commercial success.  "Cool" people want to do it, and pays lots of money to do it, in order to be "cool".

However, being "cool" doesn't seem to involve blood and snot.  Unlike real fighting.

I looked at a site of a class near to me, and was put off by the ridiculous cost.

Yours,

Mr Uncool.
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Hunter

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2004, 01:59:00 AM »

I took Krav Maga earlier this year and covered all of the phase 1 material and a little bit of phase 2.  Plus, I also have their book.

First off, KM does have some franchise problems and the quality can vary greatly depending on the school.

Here are some of the bad and good things I experienced with KM.

The Bad:  Can be pretty expensive, a little to focused on boxing type of techniques, and they often over simplify scenarios too much (step A, step B, etc).

The Good:  Really great drills for developing the combative mindset, physical fitness for combat, and dealing with multiple attackers.

Thanks,
Marx
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Milldog1776

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2004, 02:43:45 AM »

I just picked up a new student, who dropped KM after a little over a year. Maybe you other guys on this thread are getting good instruction, but I don't know what they were teaching this kid...it sure wasn't how to fight! I have students with less than 6 months of lessons under me, that are running over him. It's really sad, actually. We're getting him straitened out.

From what I've seen, Krav (in my area anyway) is more of a workout than reality training. The techniques rely heavily on speed and agility. The problem is if you aren't agile and quick...they teach you the same material anyway.

Expense is a major problem. I've spoken to several Krav students who are stuck in a contract, and paying $100 per month. They have class only 2 times a week, and that class is only 45 minutes long. I haven't checked this personally...but I've heard it from 2 different people looking to get out. They originally signed the contract for hour long classes, and just recently the class was changed to 45 minutes with no discount offered.

Dojo's name withheld to protect the innocent  ::)

Hope this helps. There may be some KM guys out there that are worth their salt, and I hope I get to meet them and train with them...but from what I've seen, there are better options to spend that kind of money.

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Shogun79

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2004, 05:14:14 AM »

I am familar with KM.  I am certified in the Law Enforcement side as an instructor.  The "bob and weave" stuff, I'm not aware of or ever taught myself, as far as Krav Maga Force Training Division has taught me. That is not in the law enforcement program.  As far as a practical system, it is.  Just as any art/system has its bad, it has its good.  My instructors in Krav were both law enforcement officers and that is what we teach.   The civillian side of Krav, appeared to me to be more interested in aerobic conditioning and drills more than anything else.  Of course this may just be the emphasis the insturctor in this area focuses on.   As with anything, don't place all your eggs in one basket.  Try is out, see if it is what you are looking for.  Botton line keep learning, and keep training.
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Ashblaster

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2004, 06:52:44 AM »

I trained in Krav in Regina and the experience was great. There were little complaints, like the over reliance on closed hand strikes, but everything else lived up to my expectations. It sounds like the problems with Krav Maga vary greatly from school to school and instructor to instructor. Check out some classes and talk to the students. Good Luck!
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The empires of the future are the empires of the mind.

Pouste

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2004, 10:54:55 AM »

Been to a local Krav school and wasn't at all impressed. Better still than most TMA out there but in my opinion you could do better with an MMA school, SBG or better yet Hoch's, Dimitri's and Thompson's materials. I also purchased the tape set and because my mother told me that it is better not to say anything at all then to insult, I'm going to leave it at that.

Krav maga is bar none the mcdojo of the martial art world, it has replaced TKD at the American strip malls, if you've found a worthy krav maga school then count yourself lucky as you have found the pearl amomgst the rocks.
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Hock

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2004, 12:09:07 PM »

There are several "Krav Magas" out there. I tend to break them down into three groups, the Los Angeles group, the New York group and the actual Israeli group-from whence… I know people from each group. Each is not fond of each other, but the other two prosper much indirectly from the ad money spent by the LA group.

Joe Hubbard and I have a friend in England who is a retired Israeli paratrooper and vet of the 6-Day War and more. He told us that his local L.A. branch reps of the L.A. Krav came to see him and tried to get him to “buy into” the L.A. Krav system. He told us that he stopped the two salesmen after one full hour. He told them, more or less “You have been here for one hour and you have not mentioned a single fighting technique. All money business.”  He told them to leave. The guy told us that the original Krav Maga concept was really three things that you studied over and over again. These three things were actually three sets of things that you drilled into your muscle memory. Everyone’s three “Krav Maga” were different.

This harkens back too and re-enforces my evolved belief that the world needs good teachers showing many good things, so a person can select the best 3 sets (or more) for their size, body strength and shape.

The good things in Krav? Are the same good things as found in other good systems. It is just their cereal box (their packaging) has a marketing hook to it that catches your eye.

But…Adventure Collins –who started this thread? (Yes, his real name is Adventure!) The blood sucking really doesn’t affect regular students. The vampirism is at the instructor level. It is important that you stay off the couch and work out. You, in and around your neighborhood and work, need to find a regular place to work out and anything is better than couch sitting. You could do worse. It is important that you keep off the couch and active. Just keep an open mind, watch out for bad muscle memory and break a sweat!

As an instructor, in the big picture, I realize it is impossible for me to completely instruct you. You are in California and I am in Texas. I therefore must encourage you to keep growing and exercising as often as possible. I insist that you keep working out, wherever and whenever you can. If Krav is the most practical, realistic material you can find in your “hood?” Get off the couch and go!

You see, as an instructor, when you accept a student “in your fold,” you accept a responsibility for their growth. Not their worship. Not their blanket loyalty. Not for their bowing head to the you-the master. How stupid! You are actually the worker, the slave to them. They are the masters. In order for them to grow they need a lot of exposure. Other people may have a way of turning a phrase, or a method that creates their growth. I need the Krav Magas, the Tony Blaurs, the local Kenpo school, the Thai gym, whatever…all these may help the overall progress of a person in ways that I cannot physically or mentally reach them. I cannot be all things to all people, all the time. I need help.

If you care about the student, you push him…Warn him about the shortcomings, sure, which is why we have to condone some of the bad talk we read on this or any forum-it is educational- but push.

The open system is the supreme system, because it does not declare itself a supreme system. It’s a Zen thing, huh?   

God! I love Zen!
Hock

PS: Forgive me if I elaborate on this theme as a blog, it has lots of potential…

Adventure

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2004, 05:55:35 PM »

Guys thanks for all the input. And Hock thanks for the advise I will get off the couch & get to it. Thanks again.

One of the ER Dr. here is a firearms instructor for H&K & Thunderranch, He has been taking KM from a Guy in La Jolla who teaches KM & nothing else. The Dr. says he has been doing it for 12yrs. So I will go & check that class out to supplement what I have learned in SFC.

Thanks guys.

Joe Hubbard

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2004, 07:49:57 PM »

Hock, you have got to an infomercial like the post above!  Fantastic!

Cheers

Joe
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side"

Hunter S. Thompson

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Visit My Blog: http://joehubbard.wordpress.com

Seppo Vesala

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Re: Karv Maga
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2004, 06:32:53 AM »

I´m one of those former krav maga students who moved over to F.I.G.H.T.

I liked krav maga because they taught it for real world and not for the dojo. For example, there was a heavy emphasis on breaking the tunnel vision, and other things related to combat stress. However, not all of the techniques were really realistic. And besides after a short period of trainig, I had already learned some overlapping techniques, which were unnecessary in my opinion.

I have been trainig F.I.G.H.T. (haganah) for a short while, and I like it much better. But krav maga is not bad, either.
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