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[Ashblaster]

Anyone see that Tom Cruise movie Collateral? It's out on video now, check it out and let me know what you think of the gun fights. It's off topic, but there is also a little H2H in there as well. Anyone know who trained Tom for that? I heard it was an ex-SAS guy named Mick Gould or something like that.

[Milldog1776]

Raiders of the Lost Ark...the best fight scenes ever. Especially Gun vs. Sword. 

[Joe Hubbard]

Hi Vicguy

This is already a topic that I started sometime ago.  Browse through the topics on this page and you’ll find several interesting comments.  By the by- I thought it was very cool!

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,73.0.html

Cheers

Joe

[gumbey]

I bought the movie today and it is conformed that he was trained by Mike Gould, who also consulted in "Heat".  I saw the training sessions (shooting drills at the range/CQC training at a gym) Tom Cruise went through with Mr. Gould. Mr. Cruise admitted that this is the first time he has ever trained live-fire with a gun. He's shot good groups too, mostly center mass shots. One of the drills I've heard of but has seen for the first time on a Hollywood movie was the "Speed Rock". Most of the gun drills he practiced were specifically for the movie scenes. Mr. Cruise was also timed at 1.3 seconds from the draw when he did a scene where he neutralized 2 assailants. And Jamie Foxx also did some serious high speed driving courses with a Crown Victoria in preparation for his role as a cab driver in the movie. I just wished there were more fight scenes. But then again, it was supposed to be a drama with realistic action scenes than just an action movie, as director Michael Mann stated.

[Hock]

Pretty disappointed with the movie.
 
Looked like Jamie Fox (always a good performance) blew Tom Cruise's brain apart in the office buidling. Looked like somebody blew a water baloon of red paint on his head. Yet, ol' Tom still gets to run several 100 yards dashes through the train station.

Tom vs. the two hoods in the alley?
Close quarter, one-hand, quick-draw and shoot. Then he two-hands the other guy.

Ho-hum. Elmer Deadweight could teach that those two standard moves at the Deadwight's Shooting Academy. You know...the gun range that is in EVERYONE's neigborhood now? The one run by the fat guy who talks tough to citizens like he is Rambo's cousin?  You know? The range right beside the tanning salon, nail shop and video store popping up all over America?

The shoot-out in the crowded dance bar?  An eight second event stretched out to about 37 flash scenes. But the H2H is just standard stunt man action.

You will have to excuse me on movie reviews, and well, things in life in general. I am getting older and cranky and very little impresses me anymore.

I still am impressed with some things....like...like Vanessa Williams for example...

Hock

P.S. The movie "Heat" was mentioned? A freaken classic!

[Trembula]

Hock:

Sorry you didn't like Collateral... I thought it was pretty good. Sure the gunfights aren't "perfect", but they are much more practical than almost anything else put out by Hollywood. Sure Cruise should of probably been dead, but its a movie and TC can't die that fast...

Anyways, I thought it good enough to put it on my shorter list of DVD's to buy.

Of course, my favorite gunfights in movies right now are in Way of the Gun and if you want to include Westerns, Open Range.

Dan

[Hock]

Oh, and on the subject of who teaches movie stars?
The most talented? You ask?
The most experienced? You would assume?
The best systems? You deduce?

Nope.
Normally, It is usually the luckiest guy who accidentally knows someone, who knows someone, selected by movie people who don't know their asses from their elbows, I mean...a punch from a kick, or a real knife fight from a dance party. If you trace back to how these guys got started, got their first connection-it is almost always a fluke...this includes Bruce Lee to Steven Seagal, on and on...

Stuntmen stay in touch with the real scene, however the industry claims the real fight doesn't translate well to the screen. They still look for exotic flash.

...and it REALLY, really helps to live in the "greater Hollywood area," and be in the local yellow pages.


PS 1: Collateral should have ended when Cruise's brain's exploded in the office building. Quick. Violent. Shocking. Realistic. I heard that in the movie theaters, people shrieked when little Tommy boy's head exploded. I said..."wow!"..while at home watching the DVD. (Remember Dinero's Taxi Driver? Want to see taxi drivers in action? See the end of that movie.)

PS 2: The Hour of the Gun is like...$5 in the Wal-Mart DVD sales bin. Buy about 5 copies in case you lose the first four.

PS 3: Open Range gunfights are pretty damn cool. Way, way above par. The movie itself, a rehash of a rehash plot with a monotone Kevin Costner....speaking rehashed dialogue with Robert Duvall, hired to be a rehashed Lonesome Dove cowboy... Hash anyone?

PS 4: They all are just movies...but I like to know if I am being spoofed or not. I expect something crazy when I see Kill Bill. I expect something else when I see Collateral or Saving Private Ryan. I get all confused and dizzy when my expectations of Collateral crash suddenly with the exploding heads of Kill Bill. Collateral lost me right after the headshot. It went Kill Bill on me and spin me right off the plot to schlock. It is not a bad movie, just below Michael Mann's potential.

(meanwhile...Hour of the Gun stays in the pocket of what it is...throughout.)

This has been:
The Sunday Morning Movie Review by Cranky, Hung-Over, Hock

   

[Trembula]

For those of you who skipped the movie, the link below takes you to a clip of one of the shootings in question discussed earlier in this thread: http://home.elp.rr.com/visableassassin/pics/tom2.gif

[Hock]

There is a lot going on that clip.

Tom gets a good handful of that guy's gun. he pushes it across his own body.
Then Tom draws and fires.
BUT! The enemy's pistol IS FREE TO TRAVERSE BACK ACROSS TOM's BODY!
Tom could be shot by the guy's death throes as he falls, accidentally or on purpose while Tommy shoots the partner with a two-hand grip.

We work this CQC sim alot and even with rubber ban guns we see how easy it is for Tom to be shot as the enemy falls.

The solution is to keep a grip on the gun arm/hand/gun and shoot. Side step over while gripping that gun to keep the barrel off of you. Following him down is the key to not being shot back.

In the clip for example, Tom would have to hold the enemy's gun hand, blast the helll out of him, as he steps to the left and bends at the knee. This also means Tom would have to shoot the accomplice with a one-hand grip because his free hand would be busy holding the gun arm of the shot man as the shot man fell back.

There is a lot of interesting things going on in a scenario like this and it really comes out with the sims guns. Working the scenario tens of times (and being shot during some of them!)  makes you really aware of the basic problems, which puts you on the awareness road of solutions.

"15 minutes on the range per 45 minutes of sims interaction equals gunfighter training"

Hock

[Bujinkandas]

For what it is worth, I think Tom did a good job for an amatuer.  I am at federal fire arms trainer and a defensive tactics trainer and I would be happy if my agents did it at least this good.   Basic but good.  In real life, unfortunatly, most agents, police, etc, rarely train tactics and can barely pass on the qualification course.

[Hock]

Another good thead to reread, with all the CQC shooting threads of late...

Hock