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[safe&sound]

A week ago today I was engaged in a bachelor party for a high school buddy of mine.  He rented an H2 Hummer limo that holds 20 people. I think that they attract unwanted attention. 
On the way down the highway to a place an hour and a half away, we stopped at a gas station to use the facilities.  Some of the guys decided that behind dumpsters and in flower beds would be okay.  A black and white passed us by.  After we were done and we got everyone back in the limo we passed the same black and white in an adjacent parking lot.  Upon our accent of the on ramp we were hailed by a police car (I do not like to write pulled over b/c the police do not "pull" you over).  We yielded, to him (the same car). 
My issue:  The officer had two chances to hail us, the gas station, and the parking lot.  There were great advantages for him in both of these locations. LOTS OF LIGHT, COVER, AND WITNESSES.  Instead he chose to hail us on a dark on ramp, with no cover, and nobody around. 
Your thoughts please ladies and gentleman.

[Hock]

And what was the stated purpose of the traffic stop? What violation?

Hock

[safe&sound]

Using the bathroom by the dumpster and flower bed instead of going inside the aforementioned gas station.

[410indashade]

You know your cohorts were wrong don't you s&s?  As for the officer he was probably thinking more unkind thoughts about the department's zero tolerance policy than yoo weeny waggers.  

[Hock]

Using the bathroom by the dumpster and flower bed instead of going inside the aforementioned gas station.

Did anyone get arrested? or a ticket?

Hock

[safe&sound]

Nope

[Professor]

A week ago today I was engaged in a bachelor party for a high school buddy of mine.  He rented an H2 Hummer limo that holds 20 people. I think that they attract unwanted attention.

On the way down the highway to a place an hour and a half away, we stopped at a gas station to use the facilities.  Some of the guys decided that behind dumpsters and in flower beds would be okay.  A black and white passed us by.  After we were done and we got everyone back in the limo we passed the same black and white in an adjacent parking lot.  Upon our accent of the on ramp we were hailed by a police car (I do not like to write pulled over b/c the police do not "pull" you over).  We yielded, to him (the same car).
My issue:  The officer had two chances to hail us, the gas station, and the parking lot.  There were great advantages for him in both of these locations. LOTS OF LIGHT, COVER, AND WITNESSES.  Instead he chose to hail us on a dark on ramp, with no cover, and nobody around.
Your thoughts please ladies and gentleman.


So, a bunch of guys had bladder the size of peanuts, pissed on the flowers where there were lot of lights, cover and witnessed, eyeballed the cop that was eyeballing them.   Got back in the limo and got pulled over to be talked to away from witnesses (possibly so that they were not to embarass you and your friends).


Noboby arrested or ticketed.   


So, friends were not embarassed, arrested or ticked for pissing on someone elses property in front of witnesses.


What's the problem?

The (confused) Prof

[Nick Hughes]

He's referring to the fact that the officer could have spoken to them all, in front of witnesses, in a well lit environment instead of doing so on the dark off ramp where, if they'd opted to, (and given it's a stretch limo you have to assume there's a lot of occupants) they could have jumped him.

Ergo, he was referring to the officer's (possible) poor use of tactics.

Nick

PS:  Do I have to do everything round here?

[Professor]

He's referring to the fact that the officer could have spoken to them all, in front of witnesses, in a well lit environment instead of doing so on the dark off ramp where, if they'd opted to, (and given it's a stretch limo you have to assume there's a lot of occupants) they could have jumped him.

Ergo, he was referring to the officer's (possible) poor use of tactics.

Nick

PS:  Do I have to do everything round here?

Oh,   He meant another officer's TACTICAL mistakes!   

I would guess that after observing a "party crowd" that he thought it might escalate the problem he embarrassed them and then turn it into a bad situation.   

If it was a felony stop, the officer might have made another decision based on tatically to handle that type of situation. 

But, I'm sure that will be more to the story.   


Thanks for the help Uncle Nicky.

The (SecondGuessing) Prof

[Hock]

I can only guess...and view it through my mind's filter.

> The oversized limo catches everyone's eye. Officers included.

> The occupants, on private property, get out and whiz about.

> The officer thinks, "hmmm...limo full of cocaine? ICE or dope? Partying going on! But, I ain't wasting my time with a silly, piss-on-flowers charge or a "public intoxication" of a solo guy or two, unattached to the vehicle. I want IN that limo, not all around it." The walking drunks and whizzers could be used as partial probable cause for bigger action later.

>This means stopping the vehicle on a public road. Which means, at its best, getting probable cause for a traffic stop - seeing the vehicle make a traffic mistake. No signal light on a turn, etc. Probable cause. Now the vehicle is more legally involved and the officer can start getting his fingers into the car.

As the limo entered the ramp, it may not have signaled, who knows, but if it were me, I'd follow and wait for a traffic infraction. Once that is made, and the patrol car lights go on? Where we stop? has a lot to do also where the vehicle eventually stops.

An officer does have some influence on that stopping spot. Sometimes officers will get on their public address system and tell the stopped car to  "pull on ahead , under the set of lights by..." and that is wise in real dangerous stops. That is advice in the textbooks, "pick your spot as best you can."

Officers get REAL use to working in the night. Many times forgetting about daylight and available bright lights. Then, officers get real use to the so-called "routine traffic stop."

If I find nothing suspicious while nosing around the limo? I wouldn't waste my time on flower pissers, and just let the limo go on. As this seems this officer did.

But I really have zero idea about what that officer was really thinking that night. If he were like me, deep down, he probably wished he was leaving in the limo...

Hock

[Ed Stowers]

It's funny all the things you do as an officer and then sit back later and chew yourself out for later because they were tactically unsound.  I've certainly don emy share of them.  The times you go in after a burglary suspect or a domestic disturbance and don't wait for backup; the time you traffic stop a car full of male Hispanics and don't wait for backup; the times you do a building serach, guns drawn, and you get separated from your partner and don't really know where he is.  Some of it is an urge or enthusiasm to take action and get the job done, but sometimes you have to have a certain amount of experience (and survive that experience) to have the knowledgde of how to better approach the situation. You try to learn from other people's mistakes, but it doesn't always set in.

I think most officers have committed these errors of judgment in the heat of the moment, one time or another, even if they won't always admit them.  The key is not to keep repeating the same mistake, but the truth is that any mistake can get you killed, and even making no mistake at all can get you killed.  Police work is simply a dangerous business.  We do what we can to stack our tactical wareness to increase our odds, but nothing is foolproof.  There is no telling what this officer's thought processes were or why he did what he chose to do where he chose to do it. It's all speculation.

Small town or large city?  It makes a difference.  A small town might only have two of three officers on the road at night.  Calls go out over the radio and sometimes DPS (highway patrol) will back them up unseen.  I was in a department so small we often had to arrest drunk drivers for PI (public intoxication) simply because we couldn't afford to take a man off the street to do 4 hours of DWI paperwork required.  They got off with a slap on the wrist instead of a license suspension.  Not the intent of state law, but city policies and shift supervisors dictate those calls.

I'm not sure why he would stop a limo full of people without any backup, but those could be factors.  Or he could just be cocky and stupid.  Just know that even those who try really hard to stay tactically aware sometimes make goofs.  I know I did.  But you learn.

...if you live.

Ed

[Bri Thai]

The story reminds me of the three strike rule.

You know the one..... "if you go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things...."

I guess he got out of it ok on this occasion.

The officer?  Maybe he didn't want people to witness what he was going to do to them?