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Author Topic: A Self-Defeating War  (Read 700 times)

Bryan Lee

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A Self-Defeating War
« on: October 15, 2006, 12:17:08 PM »

This article comes from the Atlantic Free Press, just wondering if anyone agrees with this or consideres it to far left of center?



http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/64/32/


A Self-Defeating War    
Written by  George Soros   
Sunday, 15 October 2006

by George Soros

 

The war on terror is a false metaphor that has led to counterproductive and self-defeating policies. Five years after 9/11, a misleading figure of speech applied literally has unleashed a real war fought on several fronts -- Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Somalia -- a war that has killed thousands of innocent civilians and enraged millions around the world. Yet al Qaeda has not been subdued; a plot that could have claimed more victims than 9/11 has just been foiled by the vigilance of British intelligence.

Unfortunately, the "war on terror" metaphor was uncritically accepted by the American public as the obvious response to 9/11. It is now widely admitted that the invasion of Iraq was a blunder. But the war on terror remains the frame into which American policy has to fit. Most Democratic politicians subscribe to it for fear of being tagged as weak on defense.

What makes the war on terror self-defeating?

First, war by its very nature creates innocent victims. A war waged against terrorists is even more likely to claim innocent victims because terrorists tend to keep their whereabouts hidden. The deaths, injuries and humiliation of civilians generate rage and resentment among their families and communities that in turn serves to build support for terrorists.

Second, terrorism is an abstraction. It lumps together all political movements that use terrorist tactics. Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Sunni insurrection and the Mahdi army in Iraq are very different forces, but President Bush's global war on terror prevents us from differentiating between them and dealing with them accordingly. It inhibits much-needed negotiations with Iran and Syria because they are states that support terrorist groups.
Third, the war on terror emphasizes military action while most territorial conflicts require political solutions. And, as the British have shown, al Qaeda is best dealt with by good intelligence. The war on terror increases the terrorist threat and makes the task of the intelligence agencies more difficult. Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri are still at large; we need to focus on finding them, and preventing attacks like the one foiled in England.

Fourth, the war on terror drives a wedge between "us" and "them." We are innocent victims. They are perpetrators. But we fail to notice that we also become perpetrators in the process; the rest of the world, however, does notice. That is how such a wide gap has arisen between America and much of the world.

Taken together, these four factors ensure that the war on terror cannot be won. An endless war waged against an unseen enemy is doing great damage to our power and prestige abroad and to our open society at home. It has led to a dangerous extension of executive powers; it has tarnished our adherence to universal human rights; it has inhibited the critical process that is at the heart of an open society; and it has cost a lot of money. Most importantly, it has diverted attention from other urgent tasks that require American leadership, such as finishing the job we so correctly began in Afghanistan, addressing the looming global energy crisis, and dealing with nuclear proliferation.

With American influence at low ebb, the world is in danger of sliding into a vicious circle of escalating violence. We can escape it only if we Americans repudiate the war on terror as a false metaphor. If we persevere on the wrong course, the situation will continue to deteriorate. It is not our will that is being tested, but our understanding of reality. It is painful to admit that our current predicaments are brought about by our own misconceptions. However, not admitting it is bound to prove even more painful in the long run. The strength of an open society lies in its ability to recognize and correct its mistakes. This is the test that confronts us.

Mr. Soros, a financier, is author of "The Age of Fallibility: Consequences of the War on Terror" (Public Affairs, 2006).   
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JimH

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2006, 02:46:31 PM »

LOL,Soros is a joke.

We all know that terrorists hide amongst the populace ,thus causinhg injury and death to the populace so that it may be used against those the terrorists have targeted.

Terroists ,according to Soros,should be dealt with each specifically rather than together.

A terrorist by definition instills terror in the target,the fundemantals are all the same,they have no structure to deal with as anyone of them who disapproves of the actions or dealings of the leader can work on their own or form their own group.
(look at history of terrorists and see the splintering that occurs)
Isalmic/Muslim terrorists do so as they believe it is written ,so who will we deal with ? Osama? Abbas? Ahmadinejad?

Now people like Soros believe you can negotiate with terrorists,pleqase be real,negotiations with these people especially the religious fanatics are seen as weakness.
Osama has said so,he saw it in the Russians,He saw it in Americans in Somolia.

The British have shown that al Qaeda is best dealt with by use of Intelligence?
The Britsh are just staying one step ahead of disaster and they are not being as restricteed as the US Politicians wish to keep Us in intel gathering.

I love the Us and Them,well it is US (the victims) dealing with overwhelming intel trying to wade through it and find what is actual and going to happen and by who,dealing with the attackers,the THEM,who mean us harm and only have to get through once in a while.

If the Us and them are americans versus muslims,then let the muslim population stand up in large numbers,condem the extremists and assist in turning them in.
(turning the terrorists in for free rather tahn for deals and Large sums of money in private)

No war on terror can be won if one is not prepared to eliminate all those who preach and stir up terror,even then elimination of one just allows another to step up.

The war on terror needs to fought from the side of the military and governmentt in conjunction with the education and change of the state in which terror breeds.

I like how we should negotiate with leaders and terrorists ,but we have tarnished ourselves with Iraq,when we should be finishing in Afghanistan,lol,who are we dealing with in afghanistan that is different than Iraq?


nuclear Proliferation?,well lets see Clinton Gave China technology that helped them in therir weapons programs,clinton made deals with North Korea and yet this administration has failed to recognise these governments because they mean us harm.
Lets see,embargos of N korea will result in a declaration of war with the US,yet the countries closet to N Korea have also voted on sanctions so where is the justification.
Lisa Ling,jounalist, has returned from N Korea and said the people sacrafice for the good of the Country and their leader in their war on the US,they believe they are already in a war.
Yes lets deal with  them,lol.

Mr Soros believes he has answers,when he is just venting against this administration to put words on paper to try to influence peoples thoughts and change the governments republican majority with the soon to be elections.

Wow too bad no one tried negotiations with Hitler,Stalin,Hirohito, and the others of history,lol.
Yes Soros is on to something I think ,(he on to the Big Bowl because he is passing some crap)

If the Democrates take the Congress,the Senate and then the White House,does anyone believe we will not be in Iraq,The middle East,Africa,Asia?

Lets us remember Clinton had wanted to remove Saddam,Clinton wanted to take out Osama and put special ops on the ground in LARGE numbers in Afganistan.so we are where we would be no matter who was in the White House now or in 2008.
(Read my Lips,lol,Nothing will change)




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410indashade

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2006, 03:18:10 PM »

Once again Bryan,

You have demonstrated steadily improving intelligence coupled with a depth of ignorance that leaves one truly aghast.  That you even bothered reading an article with such a title, a true oxymoron in a literary field littered with such, is a dissapointment to me and your brothers-in-arms at this site.  Unlike fighting, war is a process, a part of the big picture, if you will.  Nobody ever truly "wins" a war.  Not in the short run.  Only history or evolution can truly decide the winners and losers.  It's just not up to "journalists" to decide.   
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Bryan Lee

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2006, 03:32:19 PM »

Once again Bryan,

You have demonstrated steadily improving intelligence coupled with a depth of ignorance that leaves one truly aghast.  That you even bothered reading an article with such a title, a true oxymoron in a literary field littered with such, is a dissapointment to me and your brothers-in-arms at this site.  Unlike fighting, war is a process, a part of the big picture, if you will.  Nobody ever truly "wins" a war.  Not in the short run.  Only history or evolution can truly decide the winners and losers.  It's just not up to "journalists" to decide.   

   Let me say this, Anything Soros says is listened to here in Thailand. He is the devil as far as most people here  are concerned. I would hate to see what would happen if some of those who lost money in 97 got their hands on the man.

  I do believe the man has some valid points but as usual he is in the game for himself. Sorry guys, Even I like to have some fun now and again and a laugh.

   To bad these days laughing ends so quickly. The news is we have lost 10 troops today alone. A sad day.
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Hock

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2006, 07:18:46 PM »

Its a rough day alright.

It is election time and therefore time for a series of questions...

Has the enemy stepped up the violence because it is election time?

If so, does this violence look bad for the republicans?

Does it support a Democrat victory?

Why would the enemy like to oust the repubs and shame in the democrats to be in power?

If so, are we too fucking niave and stupid to realize this?


Hock

Wild Bill

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2006, 03:17:45 AM »



If so, are we too fucking niave and stupid to realize this?


Hock

Many of us are.
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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
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arnold

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 08:11:11 AM »

Always remember, ya can't fix stupid. Not today, tomorrow, or next week. Those that are stupid will remain stupid and continue to believe the idiotic crap throw at them.
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JimH

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2006, 08:16:19 AM »

Terrorist violence has escalated because the weather conditions in the Afghanistan,Pakistan mountain region allows more of these people who are Taliban,Al qaeda or supporters of these groups to move back and forth (hit and run),they are working with nature more than working with some intent on political change in the US.

In Iraq we are coming off the Holy Month of Ramadan,and I am sure the Queen Bee Clerics are stirring up their nest  and causing them to swarm,as this period reflects on the words/preachings of Mohammad, so I am sure the clerics are stressing the fight against the non believer aspect.

We always see a spike in attacks prior to and after Ramadan.

This year Ramadan comes at the time around US elections,again just the way the calander falls rather than planned.
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Hock

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 09:35:26 AM »

Terrorist violence has escalated because the weather conditions in the Afghanistan,Pakistan mountain region allows more of these people who are Taliban,Al qaeda or supporters of these groups to move back and forth (hit and run),they are working with nature more than working with some intent on political change in the US.


"Where the road ends, the Taliban begin."
                 US Special Forces Commander

and they are like the weather and have been for centuries as they hunker down for the cold winters.

Hock

Kentbob

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2006, 10:22:42 PM »

I don't know as self-defeating war is the correct term.  I'm in agreement with Bush, when he said it may be unwinnable, or words to that effect.  The media blew his statement all out of proportion, but the reality is that this is not a "we win, they lose" type of situation.  Just as self-defense doesn't end when you step out of the classroom, the "war on terror" doesn't end if and when the troops come home.  Whether because of ideology, religion, or just out and out jealousy, we willl continue to make enemies foreign and domestic, simply because of who we are.  Now, that is not to say that some of those enemies don't have to be made, but the simple fact is we can't please everyone all the time.  So, is it a self-defeating war?  No.  We are fighting a fight that needs to be fought.  As you all may know, I don't believe we're doing it on the scale which it needs to be fought on, but it does need to be fought. 

Quote
Fourth, the war on terror drives a wedge between "us" and "them." We are innocent victims. They are perpetrators. But we fail to notice that we also become perpetrators in the process; the rest of the world, however, does notice. That is how such a wide gap has arisen between America and much of the world.

This is a false and apologistic statement.  The intent that I get here is that we can defend ourselves, but that it is wrong to go on the offensive, which is utter nonsense.  I mean, the reference to Iraq is unmistakeable, and while I may have mixed feelings about the war, at least we're doing SOMETHING, rather than waiting to take it on the chin again.  Whether that something is good or bad remains to be seen.  And, well, I don't see this particular journalist, nor anyone else, trumpeting our successes in Afghanistan, and talking about all the good things we've done there.  So, I guess the world must be turning a blind eye to that, and choosing to focus on our "bad" aspects, or our perpetration.  Oh well.  Just another item I won't be losing any sleep over.  If you help someone out, and nobody knows about it, does it make a difference?  I think it does.  My old PL once told me that you never know how you've affected someone when you try, especially if you try to help them, or be a positive influence in their lives.  And the U.S. has tried to be a positive influence in the world for a long time.

I don't really see the problem with inhibiting negotiations with Syria and Iran.  Iran seems to make threats to the U.S. on a daily basis, and I should give a damn that we're not negotiating with them?  Why?  So we can decide how much of the dane-geld we're going to pay this time around?  How about no.  How about if they negotiate with us, if we let them.  As to Syria, they are known to be exporting mujahideen to Iraq in order to destabilize the country, especially around election time.  Iran does the same thing.  So, ask me, why would I want my country to negotiate with these swine?  Now, I don't have the list of terrorist organizations that either country supports, apart from the de facto government of Lebanon, i.e. Hezbollah.  And on that point alone, I don't support negotiations with Iran.  Add in the constant threats from their thug-in-chief, and I just don't see which part of "hindering negotiations" I should get upset over. 

"Third, the war on terror emphasizes military action while most territorial conflicts require political solutions."  Heh.  War IS a political solution.  I mean, we didn't like Hitler's politics, or the Tojo's, so we went to war.  A simplification, perhaps, but apt. 

I get the impression that you posted this as a joke, Bryan.  I don't know for sure.  I just figured I'd respond and throw a few thoughts out there.

Kent
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arnold

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2006, 05:20:09 AM »

Oh, yes, comic genius. But he still never answered any of my questions or Uncle Nicky's in a previoous post.
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spanky

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Re: A Self-Defeating War
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2006, 09:23:56 AM »

Preach On brother KentBob ! TESTIFY  :o :P :o
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