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[Kentbob]

Hey, all, I am an infantryman in the army, fixin to ship out to Iraq.  I am looking for a good reliable and compact impact weapon, ideally a collapsible baton to take.  What are some of the best ones that anyone would reccommend, and where is a good place to find them.


Kent

[Nick Hughes]

IMHO the Monadnock autolock is the way to go for several reasons...

1) If you need to open it discreetly you can.  You grasp the end, quietly pull it out until you hear the click of it locking into place.  Sometimes I just don't need the big "crack" that comes from whipping an ASP into play.  Of course if you do need that intimidation factor you can still whip the autolock.

2)  If you want to put it away, depress the button and it slides home.  No need for the kamikaze smash into the pavement to collapse the damn thing.

3).  If you want to use thrusting techniques (Hock's upside down triangle techniques) you can.  You can't with an ASP without the very real risk of it collapsing.

definitely the way to go.

[Shogun79]

I agree!

[Kentbob]

IMHO the Monadnock autolock is the way to go for several reasons...

1) If you need to open it discreetly you can.  You grasp the end, quietly pull it out until you hear the click of it locking into place.  Sometimes I just don't need the big "crack" that comes from whipping an ASP into play.  Of course if you do need that intimidation factor you can still whip the autolock.

2)  If you want to put it away, depress the button and it slides home.  No need for the kamikaze smash into the pavement to collapse the damn thing.

3).  If you want to use thrusting techniques (Hock's upside down triangle techniques) you can.  You can't with an ASP without the very real risk of it collapsing.

definitely the way to go.

Thanks, Ninor.  Now, pray tell me where I could find one of these dealies?

[Nick Hughes]

Galls sells them as does monadnock themselves and, if you have a police supply shop nearby, I dare say they could order you one if they didn't have them in stock.

Here's a link to one place selling them www.tacticalshop.com/browseproducts/Monadnock-AUTOLOCK-Baton.HTML   www.tacticalshop.com/browseproducts/Monadnock-AUTOLOCK-Baton.HTML

[Nick Hughes]

Just tested that link...takes you to the online store but not directly to the baton for some reason.  It's listed under Police Duty Equipment.

N

[SZacharyH]

Col. Rex Applegate, in "Kill or Get Killed", points out the efficacy of what he calls "the most vicious type of blackjack known...developed in WWII and used in underground warfare."  It looks, unopened, like a collapsible baton, but it opens into a handle joined to a powerful spring, which multiplies the force of the striking knob on its end.  This weapon is probably not as useful for police work as a standard collapsible baton, but it is probably the most deadly small impact weapon you can get.

SZacharyH

[Heath]

Just tested that link...takes you to the online store but not directly to the baton for some reason.  It's listed under Police Duty Equipment.

N

If you do a search on Monadnock autolock baton you will find the page..if you dont want to type that then click on the link

http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=82

[james]

Monadnock MX style are good, if your not in to much of a hurry
RRB systems makes a short (18") tactical baton that is non-collapsible
and is very hard hitting.Otherwise the MX or SX are worth looking at.

James 

[Hock]

...developed in WWII and used in underground warfare."  It looks, unopened, like a collapsible baton, but it opens into a handle joined to a powerful spring, which multiplies the force of the striking knob on its end.  This weapon is probably not as useful for police work as a standard collapsible baton, but it is probably the most deadly small impact weapon you can get.…as suggested from Kill or be Killed, by Rex Applegate.

In Kill or Get Killed, there is instruction on grappling with the stick also. Rex classified the spring baton in the category of “blackjack” as was mentioned. So the following is really a stick/blackjack discussion, specifically.

I have one of those. And I have pounded away with it on the wooden war posts. I am sure it will hurt. I discovered that it takes however a certain amount of uninterrupted velocity to develop a significant striking speed to injure or most certainly to kill. Killing must be the head?  It also takes the target being in exact position at the right spot to feel the maximum velocity of the spring delivery.

The stick swing, it is said, can crack or crush in a skull at about 20 MPH, an easily achieved speed with a solid stick, clocked at 50 or 60 MPH by medium-skilled swingers. It can push an arm out of the way and a two-hand solid stick shove to the face, only three inches worth to the face or throat is a real disruptor.

The solid stick, expandable or otherwise, offers so many advantages, least of which choking and even grappling that a loose, spring stick cannot. "More bullets in your gun." More possibilities.

Solid sticks, expanded or otherwise, better block knives and other expedient weapons like sticks or chairs, or whatever... the spring version is useless.
 
What if you fall in CQC battle with a madman? We use solid sticks in ground fighting all the time. The spring version is almost useless in this very possible, probable environment. The spring version's solid handle could be used in ground fighting, but the spring and knob does nothing but flop around and get in the way.

For every one reason to have the spring version, there are probably 5 to 10 reasons to have something that pops open into a solid, fixed stick.

Pros of the solid stick:
Do not need a precise target in a precise position, at a precise velocity
Stabs with the tip (beware cheap expandables!)
Hits and hurts with the entire length of the shaft, not only a knob
Pushes the enemy
Pulls the enemy
Turns the enemy
Blocks enemy attacks
Chokes the enemy
Controls prisoners

"More bullets in your gun." More possibilities.

Hock

[Kentbob]

Thanks for that input, Hock, I had been thinking about getting one of those spring type batons, 'cause I had heard good things about them, but now it seems like the solid steel ones will serve me better.  I do intend to use it as my GOTH (GO To Hell) weapon, so it only stands to reason that it be as applicable and durable as possible.  Thanks again.


Kent

[Trembula]

Get the lightweight version for carry... the regular one is essentially a telescoping steel pipe and unless you will be doing impact training with it, the lightweight version will be much more comfortable for carrying - which makes it more likely to be with you. (Note, my ASP resides in my truck since carrying it is illegal almost everywhere).

I never could figure out why the sheeple are more comfortable with people being hit with a telescoping steel (err "lead") pipe than the much less dense hickory billy club. Personally, I would prefer to be hit with the latter if I had any choice...

Dan

[seanross]

I carry a Winchester baton when riding my motorcycle.

There are three principle brands of collapsible baton:  Monadnock, ASP and Winchester.  Both ASP and Monadnock sell batons which are weighted more heavily toward the handle.  They also sell friction lock batons which can be collapsed with a single tap on a hard surface.  Monadnock has recently come out with a baton having a button lock.  This is cool, but it deprives you of pommel strikes.

Winchester batons have a super strong friction lock.  You have to loosen it up a bit by tapping at 45 degrees on a hard surface to even get it to close.  It is also weighted such that most of the weight is in the middle, not the handle. 

Were I going to take a baton into serious territory, I would either take a monadnock autolock due to the stealth open possibility or a Winchester due to the fact it is a heavy bonecrusher and won't close up on you.

You can buy Winchester batons over the internet at www.dummiesunlimited.com

[Kentbob]

Thanks for that, I will look into a Winchester.

Kent

[Jim]

Hi everyone, hope you all had a good xmas.

I work as an LEO and we are issued with the Asp GFLB which is OK but in my experience of running around in a riot tends to collapse after a few mins of play. I have had a look at and experiment with both monodoc and winchester batons, the monodoc we broke in half an hour and couldn't get it to shut (I don't know what it's like in the US but back here in blighty we should crash test everything on ham fisted coppers) as the button failed in the base. I did like the winchester we got a butchers at mainly due to it's robustness and weight. Well thats my half penny.....later.....Jim S

[Professor]

Thanks for that, I will look into a Winchester.

Kent

Some different ideas for you....A blackjack is a very nice little baton that fits almost anywhere and gets "losts" very easily.   You might also consider an 14-16" piece of rebar from the local area...

I really like my collapsable ASP batons, but they can be a bear to carry on a daily basis.....

[Kentbob]

thanks for the help, folks.  I will take everyone's suggestions under advisement.

kent

[Hock]

This was the first stick entry years ago.

Hock

[whitewolf]

When I was in NYC I went into a Chinese shop and the lady showed me a item that was a closed baton with a knob on the end-when you opened it it was a steel spring with the knob on the end- I bought it but was not impressed due to the fact that if you swing and (as Hock said) miss with the knob and only connect with the spring part you have wasted your attack as the spring hitting a arm /shoulder hand etc etc is a waste of time-especially when the attacker is moving fast at you. So it sits in the closet.
Kentbob-get what the guys mentioned-the one first mentioned on the post would be good for sneaking up on some one and BONG- on the old beaner-- stay safe WW (ELB)

[Trainer]

Ah, the old kidney thumper!

[whitewolf]

Ah-the old kidney thumper-ohh that felt good-
WW (ELB)