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Author Topic: Policeone newsletter  (Read 1998 times)

whitewolf

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Policeone newsletter
« on: September 04, 2008, 02:02:31 PM »

I subscibibe to PONewsletter and try to keep up with the latest in police related issues.
One question I  have is I seem to see a increase in the number of police departments that when they respond to a possible weapon incident that a great number of rounds are expended towards the target (criminal)- my question is to the POs out there. Do you think that this is due to the world we live in now compared to 25  years ago?
Or are the police well trained when to fire  and when not  too? Or Is it a feeling of wanting to survive the confortation? Or last are the senior officers at the scene not being listened too?

I am also  always curious because when I watch vidios of responses I  dont see any real control-or combat related formations- (I assume that the SWAT teams have more control)

No- I am not a PO-just retired USMC plus many years in private security and now in kuwait as a housing patrol officer .

Whitewolf (el  loo blanco)




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whitewolf

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Re: Policeone newsletter
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2008, 09:43:28 PM »

Hock-i  read your response-what i am looking for is there a underlinging thought  from the POs that says -I will go  home? Or-He will be taken  out no  matter what? Or our band of brothers wil survive or-just plain take the bastard out-
When  working with POs in Philly,Newark, and NY  (Brooklyn) I always sensed that there was a feeling of "we will win attitude" which is good but my question is does that interfere with seing if the guy they are shooting at is checked to see if he is actually a danger? I reolize i am not a professional in the police area -just looking to see what different opinons are out there. I understand there are a million POs who are doing the right thing-what I am  looking at is the times when 5-10 POs respond and all emty the wpn into the person.  whitewolf (el  lobo blanco)
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Policeone newsletter
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2008, 10:20:30 PM »

El Lobo,

Here's my take...doesn't matter how many officers are present as each one is focused entirely on the threat.  They don't know if their mate will shoot or not so they focus intently - sometime to the point of tunnel vision and auditory shutdown - on the threat.

When said threat makes a move the cop begins firing...so do all of his friends, unbeknownst to him.  He keeps pulling the trigger because he wants the threat to go down...as long as it's still standing it's still a threat and most people don't drop instantly.  When you consider how fast you can empty an entire magazine into someone it's no surprise therefore when the bad guy gets hit multiple times.

To people who've never been cops, or in gun fights, or in harm's way they think it sounds like a bunch of cops got round a bad guy and slaughtered him...reality is completely different.

Nick
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

whitewolf

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Re: Policeone newsletter
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2008, 12:05:26 AM »

Nick-good information-I agree with what you  said-what I am doing is getting different opinions from  combat vets in the Police/military/private sectors-it makes one think. You did not give any opinion on the small unit leadership i asked about-what does the senior officer look for when he is in charge of the scene? Does he lock in on the bad guy?
Does he insure officers are positioned correctly covering the front rear and above?
Does he try to deescalate the situation? are the officers trained in practise situations on how to respond under fire? As Hock says practise when someone is  firing back  at you-not at paper targets.. If the criminal is shot and down and no  weapon-do they still fire??
Am I asking for the impossible?
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GTC-554

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Re: Policeone newsletter
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 09:52:39 AM »

I don't know that the numbers have increased.
There has been and is a propensity to empty the gun by some shooters.
Pretty common from when I started until now.
Some do and some don't. Some do sometimes and not other times.

The teaching is...not to do this. But it happens.

Hock


Also when an officer empties his gun today, it normally has more rounds in it than before.  This is because when I started in law enforcement, most people carried six shot revolvers.
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"The world is a dangerous place to live not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
Albert Einstein



"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius

WTAC

  • Aaron Warren
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Re: Policeone newsletter
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 07:53:14 PM »

That's kind of a loaded question,lol. The reality is it dosnt matter how many rounds an Officer fires. As long there is a deadly threat, deadly force is reasonable ie: rounds.  If you look at old shooting stats (pre 90's) Officers were "emptying" their revolvers at the same rate Officers of today are "emptying" their high cap pistols. One big difference is the Media is more and more anti LE. That really stated after the Rodney King incident. Perfect example the NYPD Diallo shooting. Those Officers were convicted by the media before the OIS Detectives could finish their reports. Another thing to factor in is the alarming rate Officers are coming up against assault weapons. If your an Officer going handgun vs assault rifle your making damn sure you have stopped the threat. Just some food for thought. I think people just get overdosed on bias media reporting.
Aaron

I subscibibe to PONewsletter and try to keep up with the latest in police related issues.
One question I  have is I seem to see a increase in the number of police departments that when they respond to a possible weapon incident that a great number of rounds are expended towards the target (criminal)- my question is to the POs out there. Do you think that this is due to the world we live in now compared to 25  years ago?
Or are the police well trained when to fire  and when not  too? Or Is it a feeling of wanting to survive the confortation? Or last are the senior officers at the scene not being listened too?

I am also  always curious because when I watch vidios of responses I  dont see any real control-or combat related formations- (I assume that the SWAT teams have more control)

No- I am not a PO-just retired USMC plus many years in private security and now in kuwait as a housing patrol officer .

Whitewolf (el  loo blanco)





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tgace

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Re: Policeone newsletter
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2008, 07:07:31 PM »

I am also  always curious because when I watch vidios of responses I  dont see any real control-or combat related formations- (I assume that the SWAT teams have more control)

(el  loo blanco)


Police officers respond to scenes as single man and sometimes double man patrol cars. Not as a squad of infantry bailing out of the rear of an APC. Most depts. have simple tactics for immediate responders such as form a perimiter and assemble an arrest team, but LE isnt military operations. You are not going to see formations or military drill. SWAT is where you see something closer to that.
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