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  • December 13, 2018, 04:59:20 AM
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Author Topic: What is the truth about severe arterial trauma  (Read 2611 times)

eric ericksen

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What is the truth about severe arterial trauma
« on: December 29, 2004, 03:57:11 PM »

WoW..What a superb and professional forum.
This is my first post to any forum so I hope this is an appropriate question.

First of all let me state, thanks to the hard work Hock has endeavored with to spread the knowledge around. Kudos.
I hope to attend a seminar soon, and train with the man. The seminar which was to arrive in our city this year, unfortunalty was cancelled. NOT due to Hock but to the local sponser.

After a vigourous knife training session the big debate started, much like a pack of monkeys fighting over a bone.

Our group recentley read in a book entitled "Get Tough"  about how death is imminent within 1.5 minutes if you sever the brachial artery for example.

And all other arterial routes have similiar estimated times before death or un-consciousness although some quicker some slower.

 How can that be true if people completely lose arms in car accidents or combat situation and survive for days ar even on rare occasions continue to their objective. OR shark attack victims lose complete legs and dont die in minutes.

We guessed that maybe cadavers were used with an educated guess?

Can anyone enlighten us with credible knowledge and proof sources to aid in our defensive combatives understanding. 

Thanks
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Kentbob

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Re: What is the truth about severe arterial trauma
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2004, 12:03:59 AM »

WoW..What a superb and professional forum.
This is my first post to any forum so I hope this is an appropriate question.

First of all let me state, thanks to the hard work Hock has endeavored with to spread the knowledge around. Kudos.
I hope to attend a seminar soon, and train with the man. The seminar which was to arrive in our city this year, unfortunalty was cancelled. NOT due to Hock but to the local sponser.

After a vigourous knife training session the big debate started, much like a pack of monkeys fighting over a bone.

Our group recentley read in a book entitled "Get Tough"  about how death is imminent within 1.5 minutes if you sever the brachial artery for example.

And all other arterial routes have similiar estimated times before death or un-consciousness although some quicker some slower.

 How can that be true if people completely lose arms in car accidents or combat situation and survive for days ar even on rare occasions continue to their objective. OR shark attack victims lose complete legs and dont die in minutes.

We guessed that maybe cadavers were used with an educated guess?

Can anyone enlighten us with credible knowledge and proof sources to aid in our defensive combatives understanding. 

Thanks

Welcome to the forum, Eric.  In my own medical training, we learn that people can die quickly from severed arteries, but we also learn that when a limb is severed, the body goes into shock, and it automatically shuts down the arteries and slows the blood loss as much as possible.  However, you still need to get a tourniquet on the limb, as the body will soon relax, and the artery will loosen up again, allowing blood to start flowing again.  I think this is the way it goes, I hope someone else will chime in. 


Kent
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trbtacmedic

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Re: What is the truth about severe arterial trauma
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2004, 12:13:11 PM »

The human body is the best engineered thing on earth. It can recieve massive damage and still function to an extent. As far as severed arteries go if it is completly cut in two then the artery can actualy clamp itself down and have the musle around it clamp down to. Also if it is partialy cut then it wont do that. As far as the time frame of bleeding out,well the bigger the artery the more blood lost(the bigger the hose the bigger the flow).If you want to learn more take a First Responder class or an Emergency Medical Technician class contact your local Fire Department or Ambulance service for locations on trianing.
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Milldog1776

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Re: What is the truth about severe arterial trauma
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2004, 12:49:02 AM »

Ya know, if I sit back and think about fighting the way I think about my everday life...I start applying "Murphy's Law". Let's face it, when I plan a trip to run some errands I think about every conceivable option. Something always throws the whole thing out of whack, no matter how well prepared I think I am.

For example:
couldn't pay my cell phone bill (computers were down)
There was a wreck at the freeway on ramp (lost 45 minutes)
Forgot my tickets to pick up dry cleaning
spilled coffee on my crotch in traffic
etc.
Results:  despite my best planning...a wasted afternoon

So, why do we imagine that a knife fight is different? Or any fight for that matter? Arteries closing up due to muscular contractions, shock, an opponent on drugs...damn! I just want to cut him and be done with it. Can't I have one thing in my life that doesn't get screwed up by the law of averages!?!

I guess what this thread is teaching me is...cut the badguy on the throat, then hit him with a chair. Just in case. Got it! Maybe I should carry a chair around with me when I run errands? Couldn't hurt.

On a serious note. Hock tells us (and I agree whole heartedly) to be prepared to fight on after a supposed "lethal" blow. This is a great thread. I'm interested to see if anyone has some stories or antecdotes about people surviving a supposed "lethal" cut.

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Adventure

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Re: What is the truth about severe arterial trauma
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2004, 06:58:52 PM »

[. I'm interested to see if anyone has some stories or antecdotes about people surviving a supposed "lethal" cut.


Milldog~
  This was not my patient, but I was in the trauma room when the docs openned this 18 year old male's chest after he had been stabbed in the heart. The patient (pt) was assaulted by gang members & stab in the chest, San Diego PD showed up & EMS was called in. The pt was walking & talking to PD for I think 5 or more mins before he collapsed on scene prior to EMS arrival. EMS had gotton lost going to the call & had they arrived on time this kid would have not had his entire blood volume in his chest cavity. The docs found 2 wounds in his heart & 1 in his aorta, all were repaired quite quickly, but the poor kid was in the street to long. Now this kid mite have been a gang banger himself, but it was about 5 years now, & all I can remember was how much blood can fit in your chest & what the lungs look like when they were bagging air into him.
  I guess the point is you can live from even getting stabbed in the heart if we get to you in time....  ;)
  David
 

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