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Author Topic: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??  (Read 4495 times)

RobC

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DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« on: January 10, 2005, 12:19:28 AM »

Good afternoon,
This is my first post to an amazing forum !!
I'm not sure if a thread of this nature has been posted before - If so please forgive me!!  ::) 

There are so many professionals on this forum that I remain in awe and hope that my question does not come accross as too basic ... Here goes anyway ...
I was wondering if anyone would be willing to share some of their experiences, or suggest a functional method of how they have or are currently training to effectively deploy their tactical folder under the stress of a life threatening situation?

Looking forward to all and any input ...

Kind regards,
RobertC 
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Trembula

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2005, 01:02:50 AM »

1. Get a drone. The importance of a training drone that mimics your "sharp" one sans a cutting edge cannot be understated. While they are not suitable for partner training, you can use them for two person drills. You can also practice deploying your knife in surroundings or circumstances which a sharp knife might not be the best idea... inside your car on your nice leather seats, while rolling around on the ground, deploying your strong side knife with your weak hand, etc.

2. Practice "draw and strike" drills with your folder. Quickdraw and attack at Angle 1 of the 12 (or 13, which I like better) Basic Angles of Attack.... repeat for all the angles. Practice this with the folder closed ("palmstick" style), the folder opening by an inertial opening (if yours will do that), a thumb opening, and any other opening style that your knife of choice might permit (for instance the "wave" motion of the EKI knives).

3. Carry your knife in the same spot, every time, all the time if at all possible. In uniform, I usually "deep pocket" my folder to avoid flack from the powers that be. Out of uniform or in utilities, I always have my two folders, surefire flashlight, and "defender" tool in the same spot. Whichever tool I need, I know exactly where to reach for it and I can deploy any of them without having to think about it.

4. It is fine to vary the knives you carry, but make sure they open the same way, lock the same way, and the blade is oriented the same way (i.e. tip up or tip down). During a demonstration for my CQC class about five years ago when I was making the transition from "tip down" to "tip up", I had a home-made deployment trainer I had made. The problem was, it was a "tip up" trainer and all of my motor memory was for "tip down" knives. My thumb was pawing frantically for a thumbstud that wasn't where I thought it would be and it took about ten seconds to realize why the knife wasn't opening, flip it around in my hand (practice those finger rolls and flips for sabre to reverse...) and orient the knife so that I could open it. Meanwhile, the meat puppet was doing a very effective job of beating the crap out of me (had it been real vice a demo, I was wide open and he would of had me).

5. For some opening photo sequences, look at the following courtesy of Pete Kautz: http://alliancemartialarts.com/spyderco.html
Look here for some quickdraw drills (these are FUN) http://alliancemartialarts.com/stickit.htm
http://alliancemartialarts.com/atcc.html

6. One training drill I would have my class do was for one person to be given a deployment trainer, both kneel and face away from each other. On the instructor's signal, they go at it. The objective is for the guy with the knife to draw and deploy it without getting disarmed or "whupped" first. For safety's sake, as soon as he got the trainer out and open, we would call halt, and replace it with a foam knife cut out from a flip-flop. Yes, that is a little too flexible which made things funny sometimes, but given the dynamics of a ground encounter, we didn't want to use anything rigid that would injure the other person while they were struggling. As soon as the knives were swapped, the whistle would blow again and it was back on. The students loved this drill and it was a great way to finish out a unarmed vs. the knife class.

Dan
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Hock

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2005, 01:21:00 AM »

Usually opening folders under stress is the first thing that happens in an encounter. This is almost COMPLETELY  ignored in most knife courses.
I decided to put the subject first in the study of the knife.
So, stress quick draws with knives are covered in my:


Training Mission One: the Book
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/product129.html

This has about 140 how-to photos and written explanations on the subject.

*********
and...

Training Mission One: the DVD
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/product1.html

This has a 40 minute section on the subject with lots of of demonstrations and combat scenarios.


*********
and...

(if you want knife only material minus, the hand, stick and gun? Then get...
The Knife/Counter-Knife 1 DVD
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/product114.html,


**********
and...


Can't get the knife open in time and must first use it as a striking tool? Then see
Knife/Counter-Knife 7
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/product131.html


******

Sorry about the blatant advertising guys, BUT... it seems people are quite fond of sending folks all over the internet looking for stuff. I am just taking my turn too...

Sorry,
Hock
« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 01:25:30 AM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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CQCTI Director

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2005, 02:45:47 AM »

There's no need to apologize for pointing out valuable training resources.  Your training material and seminar instruction is what brought most of us here in the first place.  Pointing out where to find specific information among the massive amount of material contained on your DVD's and Books is quite helpful to many.

Jim
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RobC

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2005, 04:19:22 AM »

- Dan thank you very much for excellent reply to my initial post - Much appreciated ;D

- Hock, I am glad that I have made it to such an excellent forum and am looking forward to making some worthy purchases from yourself in the near future !!

Kind regards
RobertC
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Professor

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2005, 09:58:53 PM »

Good afternoon,
This is my first post to an amazing forum !!
I'm not sure if a thread of this nature has been posted before - If so please forgive me!!  ::) 

There are so many professionals on this forum that I remain in awe and hope that my question does not come accross as too basic ... Here goes anyway ...
I was wondering if anyone would be willing to share some of their experiences, or suggest a functional method of how they have or are currently training to effectively deploy their tactical folder under the stress of a life threatening situation?

Looking forward to all and any input ...

Kind regards,
RobertC 

Welcome to the forum Robert.    There is a thread laying around here some where on the topic.....but Joe Hubbards been in the forum and keeps mucking up the area.

Go figure.   ;)
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2005, 12:24:27 AM »

Now Jeff…behave!

Gotta love you bro

Joe
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cgonzales

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2005, 10:43:32 PM »

as I see things in my world, small as it is,the knife is as basic as air
somthing I always try to have with me. It should be personal and not somthing issued a.k.a bayonet, you should get joy from it's use.
If it is carried all day everyday and used for any and all cutting task
your command and mastery of it will improve tenfold.
In trainning I have factory and homemade drones of the exact knife
I carry.
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"HE THAT HATH NO SWORD, LET HIM SELL HIS GARMENT AND BUY ONE."
Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36)

usks1

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2005, 07:09:11 AM »

Carl,
Which one do you enjoy most? You usually have about 4 on you at any given time..

Who do you train with anyway?? I think I need to talk to that guy... :-)

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kamagong

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2005, 12:21:25 PM »

I am posting this kind of in a hurry, so if Hock mentioned this in his post, please excuse me :D.  In addition to the DVD's Hock mentioned, get his one on Unarmed Vs. The Knife, it has counters to quick draws.  Any time you learn a technique, the next step is to learn the ways to counter it.  It will make your use of the technique better, and it is always good to know how someone can counter you.  Welcome to the forum!!!
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Heath

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2005, 02:24:37 PM »

speaking of getting a tactical folder to train with...does anyone have a site that sells them? All of the ones i can find are in the $50-70 range..
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Trembula

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2005, 04:36:26 PM »

Heath:

If you look on some of the "other" forums, you can sometimes find the deployment trainers for sale used. But if you want one that is practically identical in feel and action as your "real" folder, it is going to cost you almost as much. $50 to $70 is the going rate and some are more expensive than that.

This place has Endura Trainers for $42.36 ... http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2218.php
This place has Endura Trainers for $41.59 ... http://69.20.48.11/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=139&Page=3
Delica trainers from the same place are little cheaper...

Benchmade trainers are more expensive, but Island Security Store has them too. Emerson Trainers are pretty pricy, and generally you have to order those from Ernie himself.

If you were referring to getting a "live" tactical folder, stick with a reputable brand because your fingers' health could depend on a quality knife. CRKT, Kershaw, Cold Steel, and Spyderco are some of the cheaper options and all are good quality. For more money you can get something nicer, but a Spyderco Endura or Cold Steel Voyager for a price between $45 and $50 bucks will get the job done and you will probably lose it before you break it under normal use.

Dan
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kamagong

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2005, 09:56:33 PM »

For my trainer, I went to the army surplus store.  They had a big bin there with cheap tactical folders in it for about $5 a piece.  I found some that had the blade orientation, same weight and feel as my own folder that I carry.  I got two, took them home and took a file to the blade and tip and put a flat edge on it all the way around, and then I spray painted the handles red, so I would be able to distinguish them from the live folders.  It works pretty well.  You can get some cheap tacticals online at the Great Smokey Mountain Knife Works web site. 
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Heath

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Re: DEPLOYMENT OF YOUR TACTICAL FOLDER??
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2005, 10:32:59 AM »

For my trainer, I went to the army surplus store.  They had a big bin there with cheap tactical folders in it for about $5 a piece.  I found some that had the blade orientation, same weight and feel as my own folder that I carry.  I got two, took them home and took a file to the blade and tip and put a flat edge on it all the way around, and then I spray painted the handles red, so I would be able to distinguish them from the live folders.  It works pretty well.  You can get some cheap tacticals online at the Great Smokey Mountain Knife Works web site. 

$5 .. now that is what i am talking about!!  That is a great idea :)
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