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[mleone]

I was talking to another knife instructor, I was interested in sharing Hocks style of Knife according to the curriculum. I asked to show him some knife stuff along with some of his students.  He said he was knife saavy already and had no need to learn any other methods. In essence his was response was...

"What are you nuts? Your going to fuck my students up? Basically they will unlearn everything I taught them. You will only confuse them and they will lose their way..

I feel Hocks knife style is just a different recipe people all cut at the same angles. Its just delivery and application differences. I just cant believe it. It was a pretty casual conversation then it went to that response.

I got "You will only confuse them"

They will have to "unlearn"

Isn't there universal truths in Martial arts? A point where all systems become so similar that the truth is quite evident?

Hock Id love to hear your response along with every one elses.

[Benjamin Liu]

In some cases students will need to unlearn techniques and ways of moving, but that is usually when they go from one art to another since various arts have different ways of moving, not just different techniques.  Going from Tae Kwon Do to Tai Chi is a good example.  I don't see the same thing with similar arts, such as various FMAs.  Arnis, Eskrima, Kali, etc. are all similar enough that when someone learns the basics of one school they should be able to easily pick up another school's methods.  Other arts are very compatible, such as Taijutsu and FMA. 

It is a cliche in martial arts that it is better to start in a specific art with no training rather than having learned other arts.  IMO this comes from people who are students and not teaching, or teachers who don't pay attention to their students.  Most people who've taken one art and then another will remember having to change the way they do things, for me it was things like reverse punches and high kicks, for others it would be different things.  What I've noticed as a teacher, however, is that it is better to know another art than nothing at all.  While a student without any training will not have other training to get in the way, he will also not have any reference points.  Students who know the way one art does things will see the differences and similarities in another art and will see the skills they are taught more completely than someone without a reference point.

With CQC it should be even less of an issue, since there are not specific styles of movement like in martial arts.  I've taught SFC knife techniques and also things I've learned in FMA in a Taijutsu class and it had no negative effect on anyone.

That is actually a strange reaction for a knife instructor.  At least most the knife and CQC  people on the internet seem to want to learn as much as possible, not only one system, unless they are the "cult types" who think their chosen guru (used here as a cult, not FMA, term.) is the only one who knows anything about self-defense.

It could be that he doesn't want competition.

[juszczec]

I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.  I really would.  I'd like to think his system is so radically different and unique that introducing something new would be confusing.

But I think the guy is just protecting his income or ego.

Isn't there universal truths in Martial arts? A point where all systems become so similar that the truth is quite evident?

I think there is.  But I think its also paradoxical.  There's a point where systems may become similar or the same in one or many aspects depending on your emphasis.

Evident?  I don't know.  I think it depends on the experiences and open mindedness of the individual.

Too many instructors have pride and income tied up in emphasizing the differences that they aren't interested (or able) to create open minded students.

Mark

[JimH]

I could see an Instructor worrying about his students having too many techniques and concepts perhaps being confused.
but
For the Instructor,who should know his own material well enough to not get confused and to try something new,he missed an opportunity.

If his material is that good he should not be afraid to work out and show it to others and maybe fix problems he has or see a different/new way of doing things.

Of course he is not going to allow students to see new material he has not seen,as they might have the attack of the "Oh Wows" and they may question more of what he has been teaching.

The ultimate Fear is losing studnets because they see the current material is not practical.

[mleone]

Both posts were incredibly enlightening...
JimH that makes so much sense. Its very logical and clear..

[Hock]

Unlearn mistakes and more complicated methods.
Learn better stuff...
March on!

Hock

[wisdom]

Man and on the flip side  I met a really kick-ass old salty looking Ex-Marine(former I know) Shorin-Ryu guy today who invited me to show his class some stick stuff because of a mutual friend. Amazing how open-minded some are compared to others. I agreed happily but told him let me come work out in his class first. Just agreeable and fun guy to meet. Probably how it should be when two MA guys get together(for the most part).

[whitewolf]

Wisdom- that did show wisdom-never go into another arena and just brag
and show off-I also made contact last year with a old green baret type-i went to the school and did not show anything just sucked up knowledge
and wow what knowledge it was-i then went back home and just intergrated the two (only ) techniques -i am going back i hope some day for 2 more. As for the instructor who made comment about "confusing"-I would stay away from him-he does not sound like he  has been on the street- WW

[szorn]

There was most likely a simpler issue here. The instructor was afraid of losing students but obviously wasn't going to admit that.

I have had similar issues over the years, especially with more traditional schools.


Steve