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[BA]

     As I read some stories on self-denfense forums I often wonder, how is it that the same person gets into so many situations where they are required to defend themselves. Between my current position as a Law Enforcement Officer in a decent size metro area and my experience as a jailer in an even larger metro area I have about 9years experience on the job.  I find it amazing that there are civilians that appear to have more experience in physical altercations then I do.  Where is it that these people hang out that they are required to defend themselves so often.  When I am not working I tend not to go to bad parks at night, hang out at bars known for fighting or go to other problem areas.  Granted sometimes other people are looking for trouble and will attack anyone they see, however outside of work I can think of only a few times I had to use self-defense and all of those were me stepping in to protect a person that appeared as though they could not protect themselves.  I dont know maybe I am just fortunate and my day is coming where I will have to fight people off two times a day for a couple months straight.  This post is not intended to point fingers at anyone here, in fact I dont even have any particular person from this forum in mind. I am just wondering if I am just lucky or if anyone else has any thoughts on this.

   BA

[Mr. Barnett]

Members, friends,  Being aware of our environment is important for sure.  I just caught a glimpse of Hock's blog regarding France, and for that matter, most of Europe.
Like He says, there is a lot that the citizens of both countries don't know. (about France or the USofA)
Take for example American "gangsta rap".  it has made it's debut here.  ALOT of gun crime and violence here in Marseille.  Rappers talking about how many drive by's and crimes they've committed, and how cool it is.  Young French guys, out of work, and seeing the huge MONEY being promoted by mtv and mtv type fraudsters have picked up this likestyle, and are imitating it.  TV type crime fashion has really made a splash here.  The promoters of such crime type lifestyles can be proud of the new punk ass era of French wanna be Snoop-Doggs, acting foolishly.  Bad guys don't need permits for thier guns.   French citizens are limited in their ability to carry guns.  Financially only, but if you ask a French person if they can legally own a gun, they immediately respond with the UN indoctrinated answer of No, it's illegal to arm yourself.  Forget about the French history of arms, and arms making, or that they are the largest producer of portable missiles.  Heavily corrupt govt. officials supporting war and criminal activity outside of media perceived image exsist in all countries. especially French involvement in the  North and Central Africas.  In France, you are allowed to arm yourself if you pay for the permit to use and possess the weapon.  It is quite expensive, and dates back to the era of noble men carrying swords and pistols.  Like Hock, I ve been keeping a close watch on the goings ons there.  The French are heavily involved in the North, and Central regions, and lately, heavy troop movements to supply the 4000 plus Gendarmerie that are there with the necessary medical and combat materials that are needed.  but not ONE WORD about it in any newspapers, or reports. 
Oh, how the UN manipulates the people directly, by using the media, and articles that are slightly altered.  Outside of the UN instituted government committees and "catering services" The citizens of each of these countries doesn't really know the posted laws or rights that they have in defence of themselves.  the new education system of MTV. 

[Alex]

I dont know maybe I am just fortunate and my day is coming where I will have to fight people off two times a day for a couple months straight

Hey BA:(Baracus from A-team?-cool!)

All our day's are coming; depends where you live; how often you choose to get involved in shit; how often shit comes lookining for you; it's all pretty variable.

I beleive that working in a branch of LE myself, that civilians get more involved in crap  than officers do; hence that's why we're always going to so many calls, no?
If it weren't for that, would we have the call to down-time ratio?  Shit happenes where it happens; you're not pointing fingers I don't think, it's just that the garbage hasn't come looking for a cleaner yet in your area all that often.  I was(attempted) carjacked and almost hit by 2 DUI drivers in the course of a couple weeks, on top of other stuff; threats, etc.

again, my 3 cents worth only; stay safe;be brave
al-x

[Nick Hughes]

BA,

I've been involved in more than most but that was due to my profession.  I began bouncing in Australia at age 16.  I worked in a strip club which had an all male clientele the majority of which were in groups celebrating stag nights.  The alcoholic content of the beer there is fairly legendary and Australians (at least then) consider fighting a national pastime.  I'd guestimate there were 3-5 fights a night with anywhere from one to twenty people.  Winter months tended to be quieter than summer due most likely that people weren't quaffing as much ale in a bid to stay cool and week nights were calmer than Fridays and Saturdays.

I was then an MP breaking up bar brawls 7 nights a week that involved our troops.  Then I ended up doing another bouncing stint before getting into Executive Protection.  The body guarding side of things has been the quietest - though obviously when the shite hits the fan it's usually big.

A lot of it depends on where you live as well.  There are certain parts of the city I lived in that I called "Noah's Ark" because if you didn't go there in pairs, you didn't go.  Also, you might find people here on the list more apt to have been in melees because they live in those environments and have taken up the martial arts for defensive purposes.   I also find a lot of guys who know how to fight are more apt to get into them because they have the confidence to do so.  The poor untrained individual who runs into 4 teenage thugs that get in his face is going to do everything he can to avoid the situation escalating including running away or being humiliated.  Someone who nows how to fight is going to stand up for himself and tell them to go drink a large cup of "Shut the F**k up"

Alex makes a great point to with regards to LEOs and civilians.

My .02 cents

N

[BA]

  Alex and Ninor,

    Thanks for the feedback.  You both bring up some good points, some that I had already thought about and some that I hadn't.  I guess I never thought about the fact that since I am in LE I probably watch my environment in more detail then the average citizen and therefore I am able to react to situations before they get to me.  I also understand that myself and others who have been trained to defend ourselves will be less likely to let people just slap us around.
    What really made me ask the questions I did is this.  I work in conflict and seek conflict everyday,as part of my duties as a police officer.  I go to countless calls a day that involve conflict.  I work in areas where crime occurs both in uniform and not in uniform.  Its not very often that I have found people that have been attacked by unknown perps for no reason multiple times.  I even have family members that live in very high crime areas that have never been a victim of a violent crime. 
    I realize this kind of stuff happens, if I didnt think that it did I wouldnt train. I also think that I ask this question on a professional level,  trying to get peoples input on why this happens to some people.  Your feedback could make me a better Police Officer.
     Thanks again for your replies and to everyone who makes the forum possible.

  BA

[ExJKD]

Thhis is where I DO think that reading Marc MacYoung's stuff ...not to mention..Gavin de Becker's
comes in handy.

[Professor]

  Alex and Ninor,

    Thanks for the feedback.  You both bring up some good points, some that I had already thought about and some that I hadn't.  I guess I never thought about the fact that since I am in LE I probably watch my environment in more detail then the average citizen and therefore I am able to react to situations before they get to me.  I also understand that myself and others who have been trained to defend ourselves will be less likely to let people just slap us around.
    What really made me ask the questions I did is this.  I work in conflict and seek conflict everyday,as part of my duties as a police officer.  I go to countless calls a day that involve conflict.  I work in areas where crime occurs both in uniform and not in uniform.  Its not very often that I have found people that have been attacked by unknown perps for no reason multiple times.  I even have family members that live in very high crime areas that have never been a victim of a violent crime. 
    I realize this kind of stuff happens, if I didnt think that it did I wouldnt train. I also think that I ask this question on a professional level,  trying to get peoples input on why this happens to some people.  Your feedback could make me a better Police Officer.
     Thanks again for your replies and to everyone who makes the forum possible.

  BA

I just don't have a high-risk life style:  Married, don't drink, live in the country, etc.  However, when I was younger I have a very bad temper (before formal training).  I'm glad I didn't have the skill during that time period.   

My awareness level is high, I travel about 10 times a year and I'm frequently in a large Metro area.   I'm just old a boring now...whew.....

[Rob]

As mentioned above i dont go looking for trouble..
Married with kids settled down long ago and conscious of where i go..

I also keep my head on a swivel  everywhere i go etc...


And i think the way you carry yourself sends a message also...

[Nick Hughes]

Rob,

Your post dovetails nicely with something I was going to follow up with BA on.  There was a study done a long time ago where they used prisoners to watch footage of people walking.  The interesting part was the footage was shot from the waist down only so you couldn't tell color, religion, age, sex etc from the film.  Almost to a man, the cons (all former violent offenders) picked the same people as victims.  In that sense I guess they're like dogs with their ability to sense fear etc.

In the study the people chosen to be victims were tired, stressed out, exhausted, tourists, and/or lost.  People who walked with a purpose, or with confidence were not chosen.  It's about the only justification I can find for teaching short self defense courses to people.  They may not train long enough for it to be of any value but, if they walk a little more confidently because they think they can kick someone's ass and thus, are not selected by some predator, then it's worth doing.

...regards
N

[Chris Roberts]

There's definetly a lot to be said for walking with confidence - but sometimes even that's not enough on it's own. There's a lot to be said for just being 'switched-on'. I'm constantly getting wound-up by friends who think it's hilarious that I keep an eye on the people / environment around us when we're out for a few bevvies - found out yesterday that 2 of them got jumped last Friday when walking back from a pub - 1 of them got his jaw broken in 3 places by 'something very hard' (has also lost the feeling in his bottom lip which apparently will be permanent). Neither of them can remember much about it but if they had just been more aware of their environment, maybe it wouldnt have happened. I wonder if they'll still take the piss out of me in future?...
I agree with staying away from problem areas but I've gotta say that it pisses me off that I should stop going somewhere just because of people like this!! If it's a notorious bad spot, I'm going to avoid it - if it's somewhere I enjoy going but it's becoming a problem area, I'm going to find it hard to stay away.....

[BA]

 
  Ninor and Chris ,
  Thanks for the peplies. Ninor if you ever remember where you saw that study I would love to find out more.  That would be excellent information to pass on to people.  We all know those type of people are predators and many of them are good at what they do.  I trained with a guy from Rio for a period of time he said it was crazy there in the city.  He attributes much of his survival skills to the way he carried himself and not his fighting skills, even though he was a good fighter.
   Rob you bring up good points about watching your environment. Just wondering if you or anyone else catch yourself counting the number of people with knives in the room or catch yourself checking out peoples pockets (seeing if you can see the outline of a knife) or waist bands. Of course we all have to sit with our backs to the wall too.  Some people think its funny I think it is commom sense.

  Take care,
  BA

[Rob]

I am by no means an expert or a tough guy..
But i do have a gift of sensing bad intentions on other peoples part..
So i always look at a persons eyes first then down to there pocket to see
if theres a clip or not..

I look to see how there holding there hands, clinched, open, etc...

I spent 4 years in the Navy traveling and then was a truck driver for
7 years.. Ive been in some bad places due to my occupations..
Ive always just acted like i belonged there, not arrogant just calm i guess..
My .02 cnets 

[Lance_Larsen]

IMHO it's part timing and part location.  I don't really live in a "high risk" area, but I just happened to be walking past the local convenience store while some kid was in the process of beating the attendant senseless with a six pack.  I was at the right place at the right time.  A few minutes earlier or later and I would never have even known it had happened.  Lots of stuff goes on that doesn't make the evening news.

Some places have more going on than others.  A friend of mine from South Africa was telling me about how things work down there.  It's not uncommon for taxi drivers to literally kill the competition (and his passengers) with a machinegun if he feels that he was jilted out of a ride.  When my friend goes home to his gated community at night if someone is walking down the sidewalk in front of his house he circles the block until they are gone.  Then he uses the garage door opener, drives in, shuts the door and disables his security system.  He says he doesn't go to the grocery store after dark.  I asked him how he could stand living like that, he just said "I don't know, I guess you just get used to it."  A testament to human adaptability.

There are some places that are very dangerous all the time (Haiti, Mogadishu, Chechnya, etc.) and other places where it's safe most of the time.  But even in safe places there are good and bad times to be there.  The World Trade Center was a pretty safe place to be until early one September morning.  At the college town north of where I live there is a riot every spring.  There are times and places where trouble is predictable.  Everywhere else it's pretty much just random.  You try to stay out of places known to be dangerous, then you roll the dice and get what you get.  Sometimes, in spite of your best efforts, you just find yourself in a bad situation.  Then all the training starts to make sense.

[MurrayBros]

This morning on the way to work I stopped to get gas and I think I almost got robbed.  I was at the pump putting gas into my car when two guys started watching me.  Keep in mind this is at 5 am when all the good little boys and girls should be at home in bed.  I kept my eyes on them and as I was getting close to finishing they began to walk toward me and then around behind my car.  I stopped pumping the gas with like 5 to 10 cents left and got into to the car as they got closer.  After I started the car and proceeded to drive away the went back to where they were standing prior to moving around me.  I may have been a little paranoid, maybe they werent going to jump me or anything but I felt that I would rather lose the 10 cents than my car, my money or more importantly my life.  My point is sometimes you have no choice ending up in some of the trouble spots inadvertantly.  However, keeping your wits about you is the best thing  you can do.  That way no matter where you end up trouble spot or not you are prepared to take quick decisive actions to ensure that your wife and kids will see you at home that night. 

Fight the good fight,
Brian Murray

[BA]

   Brian,
 I would think that if your gut feeling was that these guys were going to rob you, they probably were. Unfortunately you are exactly right sometimes we just cant help but be in the wrong place at the wrong time and that is why we prepare ourselves.  What we can do is learn from each situation we are in and make changes. You say you were getting gas at 5am when all the good little boys and girls should be home in bed... excellent point, you already know this is a problem time to be out and exactly why I dont get gas between 12am and 7am unless absolutely needed. Can this same situation occure at other times, you bet it does however the probability is lower. Sad part is we live in a free country where we should be able to get gas without fear whenever we want.
   Brian I think you did everything right and that is why you didnt get robbed.  You had to get gas at 5am, that happens, but you realized alot of not so good people are out at that time and you watched your sorrounding. You saw something that bothered you and you got yourself out of the situation before it got worse.  This is an excellent example of what I wanted to hear in when I started this topic and proof that being aware of your sorroundings is a great self-defense tool.

  Thanks
   BA