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  • May 22, 2012, 10:39:59 AM
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Author Topic: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?  (Read 1188 times)

redcap

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Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« on: August 29, 2007, 06:14:08 PM »

Hock, you made a good point with that blog. I also enjoy a good western., the more realistic the better although I still enjoy the John Ford era epics.  Clint Eastwood is my favourite contemporary cowboy although I agree, Selleck is very good.  Never seen a bad performance from Tom.

If you want to see an awesome performance of a character, get "Romper Stomper" starring a young Russell Crowe.  It is set in Melbourne and is about neo-nazi skinhead gangs fighting asian gangs and it is excellent.  I actually thought Crowe could have been a skinhead gang leader they recruited for the movie, he truly was that authentic.  When I was a young soldier in Melourne in the 1970's there were only two groups with short hair, us and skinheads and it was that which gave us a chance to be left alone if they were hunting.  They truly were violent and unpredicatable and Crowe portrays this to a tee.

He got his break in Hollywood thanks to Sharon Stone and her western (forget the title) and is a very talented actor.  I will look forward to 3:10 From Yuma.  By the way, do you also like Louis  L'amour?  Cheers Redcap



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The blog mentioned...

30 August 2007: Where have All the AMERICAN Cowboys Gone?
I see that within weeks a new western movie will be gracing the international theater screens - The 3:10 from Yuma. I remember the original movie and it was a pretty good film, but from the looks of the previews, there will be a much broader plot with this new version than in the old Ford/Heflin film. This one stars Christian Bale and Russell Crowe. Top notch folks.

Now, if you know me, you know I like westerns, well certain, good westerns. Special, unique ones. They are scarce these days and have been for many a year. I think the financial killer for them is they are not big, “date night movies,” at the megaplexes. When finding financing to make these pictures, the money people want to finance the next Bourne or cartoon flick.

I know many rant and rave about the 1990s movie Tombstone. Fans even get religious about it! And, while I thought it was entertaining and watch-able, as far as westerns go, I preferred Wyatt Earp with Kevin Costner as a more realistic epic. All this leads me to the real subject here. Who do we have to star in westerns anymore. Kurt Russell (all 4’ 2” of him) played a decent Earp in Tombstone, sure, but what other leading man action roles has he done lately? Kevin Costner’s flame has flicked out too. But come on...was he ever a John Wayne? A Clint or a Randolph Scott? Who is left? Sam Elliot is too old. His buddy, Tom Selleck is a great cowboy, but he dodges the parts.

Instead, American has produced a bunch of uninspiring, skinny, half-hippy, pantywaists for its half-heros. Clooney? Naaah. Brad Pitt? Not really. (soon to in a Jessie James movie. He fits the part well). Keanu Reeves? Matt Damon? Good Bourne, bad anything else. Chuck Norris would actually kick all their asses at once, then feel bad and buy them ice creams. Chuck Heston would say a prayer for them. Charles Bronson would just take a piss on their legs.

Actually, Bruce Willis does do a good job in action movies and would make a decent “cowboy.” Has anyone seen Last Man Standing? A remake. From Samurai flick to Eastwood-Spagetti to his blazing .45 semi-autos version. This plot was a remake of a remake that was not more than a plot- less, shoot’ em-up of a late western/early gangster film set in the southwest. But Willis was good. Willis is pretty much, always good, isn't he? Tears of the Sun. Die Hard this or that edition.

But where are the WESTERN stars?

The last western, a darn good one was Seraphen Falls with Pierce Brosnon and Liam Neilson. Interesting, classic plot with odd moments and events that were different. Now, the next big western, this The 3:10 from Yuma comes along with Christian Bale and Russell Crowe. Notice anything? A trend? Brosnon a Brit...Neilson a Brit...Bales a Brit (Hell, he was even Batman and many other movie heroes. We couldn't find a freaken American to play Batman?)...Crow an Aussie. These guys are great actors. Cultavated heros for sure. But, ever wonder what in tarnation happened to leading American men? No wonder no one wants to make or see regular westerns.

The Picante sauce always seems to come from New York City.

Hock

« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 06:39:15 PM by Hock »
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Milldog1776

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2007, 06:23:14 PM »

Most people don't realize that this 3:10 to Yuma is a remake of a great late 50s western starring Glen Ford.

Gonna be hard to top the original.

If you want westerns that have been made recently...it's hard to do better than Open Range. Best gunfight I've ever seen!
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Hock

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2007, 07:05:06 PM »

Open Rangeis Kevin Costner's last western. If it ain't? It sure as hell should be.Two reasons...

The boy sucks as an acter. He has gotten worse and worse. In this film he is a cardboard character. He does westerns a disservice - as do many writers and actors,  by playing the westerner as a shallow, immature, dumb fuck. At least on HBOs Deadwood, SOME of the people acted like they had actually read a book once, and the characters were capable of a full range of typical, human emotions. Remember the wild west was centuries AFTER Shakespeare. The dictionary (and popular bible) actually had more than 16 monosylllable words.

Second reason - the crutch...the modern, western crutch of so many westerns...they think they MUST have Robert Duvall in it to have a western. Since Lonseome Dove, Duvall has had to carry this burden. Costner feel for it too, by casting Duval in Open Range.  Duvlal is allowed to play the SAME "yes sir / no sir" character he does in every western.

When Open Range comes on TV now? I SNOOZE until the finale gunfight, which is absolutely superlative. Too bad it isn't attached to a decent plot and movie. I don't care about anything of the people in the movie. A tragic, plot flaw. My opinion is shared by almost all critics.  (But its nice to look at Annette Benning.) Costner is now a Class B flunky.

Worse to me was the newest made-for TV western movie with Duvall on TNT lately. Broken Trail. Same "yes sir / no sir" character. Duvall again...saving the western...he may actually be killing it.

Now I know that folks will say that Eastwood, Wayne and Selleck seem to play the same parts. But they are STARS and so often they made decent movies. Rio Bravo. The Unforgiven. Actually Selleck is not know for any one western, just his likeability factor is so high.
And put Sam Elliot on a horse and I'm probably watching it (even if it is a flaming red, ghost horse as in the Ghostrider movie!)

I'd Kill for a decent western, with some reality and innovation. A High Noon original... hmmm...maybe some British and Australian writers will get around to writing one?


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HBO here in the states played that old Crowe movie a lot. Crowe is a unique acter. The western was "The Quick and the Dead." with Sharon Stone.


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My jury is still out on Lamour, as sacreligious as it may sound.
Somethings are good, and some are trite and terrible.
They are making some horrible, low budget Lamour movies now and butchering the plots too.
But remember Catlow? Shalako? Wellll, some are really classics...

Adios,
Hock
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 10:23:06 PM by Hock »
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Milldog1776

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2007, 08:36:30 PM »

American Actors that I think would make good Cowboys:

Ron Perlman
Bruce Willis (agree with Hock)
Samual L. Jackson (yes...I really do)
Gene Hackman (already has some good roles to his credit)
Micheal Douglas (I think if the right role came around...he could play a pretty good tough guy)
Christopher Lee (old...but would be a great villian...maybe a cattle baron)

More to come
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Bryan Lee

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2007, 09:39:17 PM »




  If you want cowboys go out to Throckmorten County, there are still a few around. Who needs these movie actors with their Sissie versions of reality.

There is one true test of real a cowboy, that is if the horse he is riding is worth more than the truck he drives.


 

 
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redcap

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2007, 01:40:04 AM »

L'Amour wrote a considerable amount of material so it is no surprise that some of it is not as good as other works.  He fed his family with his writing since the 1930's, a lot of it written to the formula demanded by whoever was paying him for the story.  He served in a transport unit in WW2 as a Lt and really came into his stride towards the end of his life.  I enjoyed "The Haunted Mesa", the Sackett series and found "The Last of the Breed" to be a truly definitive work. 

He was a knockabout character who wrote a lot of boxing stories also, many based on his own experiences in the ring and on board tramp steamers in the China Seas. 

Back on the tpic of westerns and such, how about you suggest what it is that makes a good western good?  Or great?  Is it the authenticiy of the sets and costumes (as in Unforgiven) or the scope and adventure (The Searchers, Stagecoach etc)  Redcap

PS Not a western but one of my all time favourite films and starring Tom Selleck and Bess Armstrong, "High Road To China" based on the terrific John Masters' novel and roughly a true story. Bess was in a recent piece about a travelling jewellery salesman, still a fine looking woman.
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Hock

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2007, 07:25:22 AM »

I read his Lamour's life story 
http://books.google.com/books?id=7G4UAAAACAAJ&dq=inauthor:Louis+inauthor:L+inauthor:Amour

a few years back.
It was entertaining.
Truth can be so stanger than fiction. I really like these kind of narritives.

Selleck was originally planned to be Indiana Jones but lost the part due to contracts (Magnum?) The High Road to jina was attempt to recreate that era kind of film. Funny thing is I never watched Magnum because I didn't like how trite and fake everything was. Selleck still survived.

The Riders of the Purple Sage was the first big western book by Zane Gray. As big then as Harry Potter is today. It set the cast for many westerns books to follow, but it was unique. It was really about two woman. It REALLY was anti-mormen.

I wish I knew what makes a good western....capturing lightening in a bottle.....

Hock
 

Professor

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2007, 01:02:36 PM »

Larry McMurtry

Good author....wrote the lonesome dove series:

Dead Man's Walk  is GREAT book in this story of Guss and Call.   This is a really raw look at the West.

....don't like some of his books, but batting at least .500.


Louis Lamour:   The Walking Drum -- not a western, but GREAT story.

Elmer Kelton:  Another REALLY good western writer, but you need to be a good 'ol cowboy to really appreciate it.  I grew up raising and breaking horses -- it make my heart feel good.

Ben Green:  Cut from the same boot leather as Kelton.


Damn, now I have to dig through my books to get a list going....thanks for the extra work.

 :P
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cgonzales

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2007, 03:30:00 PM »

best movie gun fight ever..................... THE WILD BUNCH!!!!!
best western actor for the part........................ VAL KILMMER as DOC HOLIDAY
best all time western actor........................THE DUKE (may he rest in peace)
best cowboy of all time...........................MY DAD.
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Hock

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2007, 06:44:33 AM »

best movie gun fight ever..................... THE WILD BUNCH!!!!!
Changed the movie industry. The whole movie was a radical piece of iconoclastic work by Sam Peckinpaw.


best western actor for the part........................ VAL KILMMER as DOC HOLIDAY
Many say, that had not Val played Doc in Tombstone, that Randy Quiad would have won for playing Doc in Costner's Wyatt Earp. I have to agree. I lean toward Costner's Earp more than the flashy, commercial (and very good) Tombstone.
(I saw Tombstone with some of my cop buddiies and it was like...like...going to good, church revival or something. It is a good movie, but imy vote, I favor Costners Earp movie.)


best all time western actor........................THE DUKE (may he rest in peace)
I think probably. There are many great traits of others...Randolph Scott...and Gary Cooper!...but the Duke left such a lasting impression. Hell, the even the European, bald guy with an accent - Yul Brenner, played a hell of Cowboy gunfighter! But the Hollywood women (even Jane Fonda with them !) testified before congress that John Wayne was what many foreigners thought of first about America. A great symbol of justice and freedon and all that good stuff. Even though, in no one single movie (perhaps the Green Berets, or maybe the Alamo) did he act a part suited for that big, BIG image.


best cowboy of all time...........................MY DAD.
Probably.
My dad was from New York City and worked in factory...NO! He didn't make that pecante sauce...

Hock
« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 07:38:52 AM by Hock »
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usks1

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2007, 07:26:34 AM »

I used to love the Eastwood Spaghetti westerns.. fistfull of dollars / good bad ugly / all of those...

Your right... Yul Brenner played a great cowboy / robot shootemup guy in Westworld..

The John Wayne / Dean Martin westerns I always liked... The sons of Katie Elder / Rio Bravo & then True Grit / Rooster Cogburn... You gotta love those.

For funny westerns you gotta remember Trinity... They call me Trinity / My name is nobody and his quick draw slap the face duels..:D  I think I read that Trinity was really an Italian guy... explains the dubbed looking voices... But he sure was funny and lots of action.

I am a big fan of The Duke & Clint but my favorite cowboy was Audie Murphy.... I remember watching his movies as a kid... The ones with him and James Stewart. They made me want to be a quick draw cowboy.

Then there are the honorable mentions...
Shane with Alan Ladd "Come back Shane.... Come back"..... :D
The after school reruns of the Rifleman / Chuck Connors.

Yep... I think a lot of the good cowboy shootem ups with the great block em and clock em bar scenes started to fade when the martial arts shows started taking over the action movie market....

Hell even the series Kung-Fu was a western... Quai Chang Kaine may have been the 1st Kung Fu Cowboy.. :o

Great memories of the westerns... Good times.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 07:29:18 AM by usks1 »
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Milldog1776

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2007, 12:23:24 PM »

Oh!!!!!! Lee Marvin!

How can we forget Lee Marvin!?!

Great as Liberty Vallance. Hilarious in Cat Balou. What was the name of that movie were he was missing half of his scalp?
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usks1

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2007, 12:27:23 PM »

Oh!!!!!! Lee Marvin!

How can we forget Lee Marvin!?!

Great as Liberty Vallance. Hilarious in Cat Balou. What was the name of that movie were he was missing half of his scalp?

Wasn't he a mountain man???

Even though it is not truly a western, and more of a mountain movie... What about Jeremiah Johnson..

For me anyway that is one of my all time favorites...
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" I see people doing all kinds of crazy stuff.. Eatin razor blades and sh--t.. But I wanna know.. Can he fight?? "

Moses Powell ( RIP ) - The warrior within

Professor

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2007, 02:02:25 PM »




Gabby Hayes, Ben Johnson and Jack Elam all make me want to watch a western...

The Duke

Kirk Douglas

Clint Eastwood

Jimmy Stewart

Henry Fonda

James Garner

Gary Cooper


Well, you get the idea....
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Hock

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Re: Where Have All The American Cowboys Gone?
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2007, 02:19:56 PM »

One of my top 5, maybe top 3, maybe even number 1 (a wrestling match with Rio Bravo)

The Professionals
        Lee Marvin (one of the unique greats)
        Burt Lancaster
        Woody Strode
        Robert Ryan (also in the Wold Bunch)
        Claudia Cardenale (yes?)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professionals-Burt-Lancaster/dp/B000096KJK

Hock
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