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  • May 22, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
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Author Topic: Systems of stick training  (Read 1161 times)

mpbelzer

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  • Posts: 35
Systems of stick training
« on: September 27, 2004, 09:01:59 AM »

Hey Stick Fighters! I am interested in your experiences of different systems of training with the stick.  These questions are of particular interest:

1.  What drew you to the particular system?
2.  What techniques/methods are considered "The Basics" of the system?
3.  How long (hours of training) did it take you to feel comfortable with the system?
4.  How are "spontaneous reaction drills" practiced?
5.  How is "sparring" used in the system.  What do you see as the advantages/drawbacks?
6.  Does the style emphasize more on power strikes with focus (kime) or on multiple strikes   
    (Filipino "flow" like)?

Let me know!

Mike
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Alex

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Re: Systems of stick training
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 09:44:47 AM »

hi MP:  great topic!

1.  What drew you to the particular system?

kinda fell into it when I was starting out in JKD in 1989...just became part of the training process
2.  What techniques/methods are considered "The Basics" of the system?

basics include:  x-patterns, figure8's, long/med/close quarter ranges of combat, footwork, and many flow drills.

3.  How long (hours of training) did it take you to feel comfortable with the system?

still working on that :D  actually had to make a concerted effort to get the flow of things as I had primarily trained as a kickboxer prior to that.  Started getting the feel for it after about 2 years of approx 2-4 times a week for about 2-4 hours a day, according to my training logs.  Plus many camps, videos and partner training sessions

4.  How are "spontaneous reaction drills" practiced?

all ranges with all weapons under all conditions; light, dark, in rain, etc/

5.  How is "sparring" used in the system.  What do you see as the advantages/drawbacks?

Well, this system uses a lot of sparring.  We spar eithe full body, contact only to hands, to head, leg, for accuracy and timing, knife sparring to head or hand, or mixed where anything goes.  I pesonally believe in sparring; it's just understood that a shot to the treehouse may very well down you, but the point of sparring is to practice your skills, not remind you all the time that a head shot means stop the fight...my outlook anyway.

Drawbacks:  I see a lot of people turning into what I call "bag-warriors"  where they look great on equipment and even in light sparring, but when it's time to go, they fall down and go boom quickly.  Sparring between two beginners turns in to machine gun fire even when the coach says"go light".


6.  Does the style emphasize more on power strikes with focus (kime) or on multiple strikes   
    (Filipino "flow" like)?

Both practiced but LOTS of flow drills to promote timing, eye hand coordination, flow, practicing line recognition, working disarms OUT of flow.  Power is usually worked on our own time on the Tire-Man, heavy bag or trees.  With all weapons; stick, knife, short stick, kubotan, bats, etc.

We always try to train combinations rather than the one big power shot, although there's Power Bomb day.

We have to have fun and learn from anyone that decides to come out.  Weaponry comes from all corners of the planet and there's something new to be gleaned, plus you make some new friends!


That;s it from my little corner!  be well
al-x

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crane2

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Re: Systems of stick training
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2004, 10:18:55 AM »

11/8/04

Mike,

1.  What attracked you to the particular system of stick fighting?
Since about 1988 I have been attracted to stick fighting.  However, I was a student and instructor in a traditional martial arts school.  We were told we would not be taught and would basically be kicked out of the school if we studied any other martial art.  Well- about 2 years ago, a friend of mine from another martial arts system who had studied under, Steve Carroll, my present Kali instructor.  This mutual friend kept pestering me to check Steve's class out.  I finally did.  I was hooked pretty much immediately, eventually quit studying at my other school and have been training under Steve for about 2 years now.  What attracted me-  Practicality vs. flash, realistic self defense, carry over/application to knife and empty hand defense, the way Steve moved, the way he was able to break techniques down and to explain under what conditions (range etc...)that they worked, his enthuiasm for the art and skill in it!

2.  The Kali system I study is largely based on my instructor's knowledge of Lamenco and Hock's Archapeligo system.  We also use drills from Pekiti Tirsha and Dan Inasanto--some of his drills (from video tapes)...

3. What are the basics of the system?  Footwork is pretty heavily stressed, ranges of combat, stick grips, developing power, striking-clock and the 12 angles also; striking using various grips, blocking, stike disarms (especially impact disarms at first, also strip and send, strip and keeps,etc), use of strikes and kicks in conjunction with sticks, the strategy of "clearing a path to the head" with the stick, basic flow drills (single and double stick), finishes (less the lethal-lethal), Hock's diminished fighter theory, various reflex drills, power strikes and combinations...basics also include knife, stick and knife, double stick and empty hand...many of the drills an tactics apply across the board...we do work on falling also...some on take downs and stick grappling but more of that and scenarios comes later...

4.  How many hours did it take you to feel competent?  Depends on what day I consider this question...I have improved a lot since I started but still have a ways to go!  I have trained for 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours about twice a week for over a year, once a week before that plus trained on my own outside class with/without a training partner at least 3 times per week for about an hour and a half each session...that does include some aerobics and all the weaponsweapons combos we study-not just stick.

5. What reflex drills do you use?  randori like training, Hock's 3 for 3, 2 for 2 and so on; an attacker strikes any angle, defender blocks and follows up with a combination-sometimes preset/sometimes not, defanging the snake-hit the hand and follow up sometimes with control sometimes the trainer wears hand guard designed for this type of contact; visual cue-trainer flashes the stick, defender tries to get in and strike 2 or 3 times without getting hit...stick sparring-padded and live stick (with helmut and hockey gloves-groin protection for men)...flow drills, combinations of flow drills strung together, coordination drills, driils designed to elecit a specific response...eg. certain block and follow up to train it so it becomes reflexive...

6.  Does you system emphasize power or multiple strikes---both. My instructor says Pungo Guro Edgar Sulite told them srike hard and strike a lot if you are in a bad situation...Boy-I've seen videos and he sure could do both!
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pmh1nic

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    • Brentwood Self-Defense Academy
Re: Systems of stick training
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2004, 10:41:43 AM »

1.  What drew you to the particular system?

It was being taught as a compliment to my primary training in Jiu-Jitsu.

2.  What techniques/methods are considered "The Basics" of the system?

Five basic swings and the infighting/distance defense against each swing. After that it was double stick, stick and knife.

3.  How long (hours of training) did it take you to feel comfortable with the system?

Being the obsessive/compulsive type I started stick training as a white belt and took stick classes every week (my wife thought it a little much that I took my sticks with me on vacation :)). I was beginning to get pretty fluid after a year.

4.  How are "spontaneous reaction drills" practiced?

We'll start with choreographed combinations and work into free style drills slow and with control and then throw in periodic pulses of quick combinations (again, with control).

5.  How is "sparring" used in the system.  What do you see as the advantages/drawbacks?

We've done sparring with padded batons. It may help a little with respect to learning distancing and train you to stay in a proper stance but in a lot of cases it becomes a fencing match.

6.  Does the style emphasize more on power strikes with focus (kime) or on multiple strikes?

Both, with the first strike always being to the attackers hand (the one holding the stick) while the second strike would be whatever is the most direct strike to the attackers head using the shaft, butt or tip.
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Hock

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    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Systems of stick training
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2004, 11:41:48 AM »

1. What drew you to the particular system?
Well that system would have to be my own-SDMS. (Brace yourself because this will sound like a commercial.) I had to create a system because no one system satisfied the needs of civilians, martial artists, police and the military. Police would do really well to get the sheer savvy of a Filipino stick fighter. Filipino stick fighters would do really well to see how, when and where sticks fit in today’s world.
I believe that a practical/tactical system teaches survival and sometimes looks like a martial art. Martial arts teach martial arts and sometimes look practical/tactical. And so on, and so on. What side do you want to be on? Why?

2.  What techniques/methods are considered "The Basics" of the system?
All the single hand strikes and blocks
All the double hand blocks and strikes
Stick grappling in push, pull and turn collections
Stick ground fighting
(SDMS is a single stick course. Double stocks are in the PAC course)

All done in:
Solo command and mastery (in the air)
On training Objects (hitting real things-posts, bags and other ojects)
Skill, speed and flow drills
Combat scenarios

3.  How long (hours of training) did it take you to feel comfortable with the system?
Oh, years I guess.

4.  How are "spontaneous reaction drills" practiced?
Stress quick draws under attack
The Increasing 12s Drills with single and double hand attacks
Close range block and strikes drills with lots of stalking footwork and yelling.


5. How is "sparring" used in the system?  What do you see as the advantages/drawbacks?
We have the killshot sparring segment. But in today’s world, it is not likely one will find themselves in a stick duel. Yet, as Joe Lewis says, “nothing replaces ring time.” And it must be done for the experience. I like to mix the weapons up. Knife vs. stick and so forth. Got to be done. Don’t do it at the expense of time lost learning everything else.
As Remy Presas said, “You train your whole life for a 4 second stick fight. The guy who charges like a maniac, fakes a move, gets an opening and splits a head? Is winning. The stunned man either falls or is taken down in a push, pull or turn grappling move. (The best stick takedowns are when the guy is already falling.)

6.  Does the style emphasize more on power strikes with focus (kime) or on multiple strikes  (Filipino "flow" like)?
I think the flow-done in the air so often as practice, is often interrupted by…the body of the opponent. But, I think multiple strikes are better. One big cannonball can easily miss. So, if "the flow" is equated to multiple strikes? Then the flow is smarter fighting.

Hock




mpbelzer

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  • Posts: 35
Re: Systems of stick training
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2005, 03:24:33 AM »

Hi Hock,

Thanks for sharing the history of your SDMS stick progression with us.  I always find it interesting (and useful) to learn about the history of a particular system, what need it was created for, the environment (time and place) it was desiigned for and the particular group of people that would use the system.  That information helps me put the system into "context". 

Your mission of "bridging the gap between military, police, martial arts and the aware citizen" is unique in this 'niche of a niche" that we find ourselves.  As soon as I heard it from you, it rang the old "bell of truth' with me because of course you are right:  All of these groups know different aspects of the "survival under stress game" and we can and should all be learning from the experiences of each other.  By "game", I don't mean a sport, I mean the game of "Life and Death" at the moment of truth.

Have a great New Year and looking forward to more training opportunities with you and the rest of the SFC-CQC crew in 2005!

Mike
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