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[Bryan Lee]

Sorry to seem like an ass... "not really"... But all those who think you need to know this or that, or carry this knife or that knife.. What a bunch of shit... Just take what you have and point the sharp end in the right direction, or slash whatever gets within reach of ya...

Other than that it is just snobbery, and has nothing to do with what you will do when shit hits the fan....

Like it or not.

Dean.

  Does one need a university degree to swing a machete? No.

  Does one need to do some thinking about it before one swings a machete? Yes.


  Snobbery? I don't think its that, being systematic would be a better term.

I had a few beers before I posted that, so my point didn't really come across like I wanted it to.

I am a firm believer in tactics and training and doing our best to be ready and well trained.

Problem with these types of debates is the reality check in what we are legally able to carry.

We are not always able to carry the best blade for the job. No doubt a kukri or a good machete is a lot better hacker than my pocket folder.. Thing is I can probably carry a machete or kukri in my vehicle and maybe get away with it as a "camping or work tool"... Maybe.. Maybe not. My favorite knife is my Colt fixed blade which is a great thrusting tool, but I can't carry that on my hip unless it is hunting season. So unless I am in my car, or in a stand with my rifle, they won't do me much good.

But I can carry my folder on me and say I use it as a box opener or a tool and can have it on me at all times.

I guess where the snobbery thing came in is that many carry the latest and greatest cool blade with the biggest price tag, and that makes them feel cool. As if the price of the blade will give them a better chance of survival on a hit and run mugging or assault.

I just keep a decent folder on me that I can use as a tool, or if need be help me get home. I don't need a $200 blade for that. I can whip into any local convenience store and get one that will work just as well for under $10.

Anyways... In a nutshell different blades are better for different jobs. Unless we are in a profession that allows us to carry a machete or a bowie then I have to settle with what I will be allowed to carry legally. For me a folder is about all I can justify having in my possession, so that is what I train to use.

Hope this makes more sense than the last post.. 

  No worries, I have a folder in my pocket. Often it comes to a "Use What You Got" scenario with weapons. I don't go for the highfalutin knives or overhyped prison shanks but paying a fair price for a hand forged Bowie, that I don't mind at all. When I'm not typing in regards to CQC, I'm either training, being trained or messing about in my blacksmith shop.

[shastana]

My post was looong and probably not worth the time I took writing, and I'm glad to see responses making up for what I guess I was trying to say.  So nuff said, a knife is a winnabego compared to a bone or stone tool no matter its shape. 

My point was that the idea that this blade is good or that blade is worthless is subjective.  Any knife is a good knife if it has a good edge, can be used for combat, hacking firewood, carving makeshift tools, pounded on, pryed on, etc.  If it is a tough knife that holds an edge, then it is a good knife to me.  I've made and used primitive stone and bone tools and have a deep appreciation for steel blades, Tracker included. That's all.  Opinions are just that to me when I think of how chert and bone blades wear quickly, and machetes are for field workers, they are machetes and not knives.

And to Mr. Lee, glad you know primitive skills and hunting, but got to say there is always more to learn, hope you still have room for that in your day.  O si yo, a gi Tsalagi, from your Cherokee brother.

[shastana]

CQCG folks I'm sorry to take up the space with this reply.

Mr. Lee-sir I appreciate your feedback, really do.  I think we are talking same language, but you with sign language and me with smoke signals. 

"The six in one knife that would be used to make other tools to replace itself in the field does not make any sense"-you say. 

->School of thought-in primitive living, you MAKE TOOLS.  A knife makes a working platform to build primitive tools...and another knife.  1-knife makes wooden tools 2-knife makes knapping tools to make stone knives and axes 3-knife makes many tools (incl fire) to make metal knives.

-> TOOLS BUILT FROM STEEL KNIFE BY ME
-flint knapping tines from antlers, billets from hardwoods, pelt cloth from squirrel, cordage
-stone knives as draw knife, thumb knife, drop point knife, makes bone and wood handles
-cordage from bark on trees
-fire hardened spear tips, fishing spear bone tips (boiled bone then carved), throwing sticks, self bows, arrows, atlatls, etc.
-wood mallets for pounding, hammering
-axe handles, hoe handles, shovel handles, tools to be used to forge knives
-camp vise, tongs
-bone hide scarpers, wood stretchers, racks
-bone saws, wood hand drills with stone tips
-food bins, baskets, etc.


There's more but I think this makes a point that knife makes other tools to "replace knife uses"  All these tools end up "replacing" the knife one way or another. If your ONE knife can take the beating of the above chores by itself for about a month at a time and not break and be able to sharpen properly, then you should just carry that one knife. By the way, what is it so I can get one!  Personally I know of NO knife (incl Tracker) that can take that kind of beating day in day out year after year.  If you are talking a weekend get away, not a lifestyle, then OK your one knife will suit you fine.  Just have it tethered to you and pray you don't lose or break it.

From what I know, a camp knife should do the following:
-chop and scrape  with a rounded edge
-split wood with a round edge using log hammer on back of knife (all knives have to pass this test to be in my pack).
-pry bark off large tree with thick blade (this is a mandatory test for me too, using log hammer on back of blade)
-carve wood with carving edge
-drill and stab with point edge
-gut and round with gut hook edge (or use point)
-saw and notch wood and bone with saw edge

Look at the manual for Tracker knife and let me know if it does these chores.  Basically that was the reasoning behind the design from Tom Brown.  It does these things pretty well, but like I (and Tom) said before, NO knife is a "Ultimate Camping Championship Knife" and I think that kind of thinking is plain stupid, a good sign of the untrained. The knife was never claimed to be the end all solution to survival knives.  It gives you an idea of what a survival knife should do.  If you think this knife is not a survival knife, then show me a better survival knife that does what this can do. http://trackertrail.com/trackerknife/TrackerKnifeManual.pdf



"In general the knife is way to big to be skinning small game with, cutting up birds with and I wont even bother with its uselessness conserving fish. I guess if you were tanning a hundred buffalo hides one could make a silly argument that it is a good flesher but anyone who's ever bothered to flesh large hides knows its done on poles with big dull edges so even that argument would end in failure."-you say

Well, the smaller Tracker 2 is what I've been talking about.  I agree the Tracker 1 is too big. I think of Tracker as a backup workhorse.  Tracker 2 is overall 9.5", blade 5", thick 3/16".  That's it.  Small chores are easy with use of thumb directly behind 2" blade section. Caping and food prep is done with index finger extended to tip of blade, like you would if you were using a bone knife. Easy with index finger backing the blade. The "hook edge" on the Tracker is not a great gutter, that is why you use the tip backed by finger with edge toward you.  Simple like a bowie, buck or whatever knife. 

When did you ever flesh out a hide to remove fascia tissue, meat and hair using poles and a dull edge?  I don't know there chief...Buffalo hides were staked to the ground to flesh out, not racked or on poles.   Don't know about Tatonka, but for deer/antelope I use one large fleshing beam leaning low on tree and scrape toward me with a rounded (hoe shaped) scraper held 90deg to hide, sharp edge not dull but at 90 to prevent cutting hide.  Tracker blade rounded edge is very doable, but reinforcing with a clamp handle to get right pressure is recommended.

You know Mr. Lee, none of this matters anyway, just glad to hear you have learned primitive ways, help keep them and those who teach them alive!  We will disagree on things but I appreciate your posts because it helped me to record the tools and jobs of knife.  Take care,

JC

[Bryan Lee]

JC, no worries, Sure a knife should be used to make other tools with, my philosophy just starts with making your own knife out of stone if needed. The point I was trying to make but may have failed to do so is that there are many better knives to start with if one can start with a knife. I'm of the opinion Tom Brown likes to hang around barns teaching classes, the knife was marketed and sold hard as the answer to every question off the asphalt and it just aint so, that was the argument. Just look at the simple knifes most Alaskan Hunting Guides and Trappers carry?



Sidenote: My primitive skills have greatly improved by living in Thailand and traveling throughout Southeast Asia for more than 5 years, bamboo is the ultimate renewable resource. I plan at some point in the future to offer classes about the Jungle in the jungle.

[fire]

   first of all, other than security work on the side, what I do is make and sell knives, for about 8 months of the year- pretty much every type and brand, and I have for a decade now- so the subject of movie knives and the effect of pop culture on the knife industry is something that I feel qualified to write on, first however, I will relate my musings on the direction that the topic has drifted, ie functional survival knives and what would you take to wherever.     

    the older I get (30 now) the more I understand my father- he served in the jungles of vietnam, and said if you had to have only one knife, it should be a machete or corn knife- and at this point I agree wholeheartedly- personally, in a best case situation I would like to have a machete, a folder about the size of a buck folding hunter (of a swiss army knife if you are going the tool chest route) and a fixed blade air force pilots survival knife- that's given that I am going to have to camp, survive, live in the woods etc- but If I only get one, gimee a machete- a panga or south american corvo- I have played with batoning a small blade through a heavy branch, and yes, one can make a small knife work for a lot of big knife stuff, but its a lot easier to make a big knife do small things- as evidence in support of this, I have noted that most of the native peoples favor a machete as  a basic daily tool, even to the exclusion of smaller knives- hell, I have read, and seen reported heavily, (though I have never been myself to africa)  that in africa the two most common knives are the machete and the okapi, which is in essence a folding hunter- and with those everything from food prep to warfare are acomplished- and from a fighting perspective, I would certainly like a machete better than anything smaller, simply for reach and the ability to remove limbs- 

    To that end, I like this design better than any of the others from previous movies- other than the fact that he used it to gut the main badguy, the use of it seems pretty good ie effective- And I am sure that someone will do a licensed copy, probably those utter fuckups at united cutlery, though they were last I heard in dire financial straights, they have a longstanding thing with hibben, and crank out most of the crap movie tie ins made today  (it pisses me off to no end that they make scores of cheap stainless swords that could for what they are charging be made functional- and I will especially never forgive them for taking the functional sword designs from lord of the rings and producing them in stainless with rat tail tangs, at the price of a functional high carbon weapon) we will also see a flood of knockoffs from china and pakistan, for at least three years- this still happens with most every successful movie, and for that matter, tv too, and if no one thinks to license a high dollar copy, then the knockoffs will still flow-  the one thing that will limit it is that the design is, well, ugly, and very basic, which is what tends to limit sales of a high dollar copy- witness the lack of sales of the orc sword from lord of the rings- most people will readily buy the cheap knockoff as it will resemble the "official" one more closely than if it were a more complex or harder to produce piece- oh, and i predict that cold steel will have a machete that looks like it before long too......

[D. McLemore]

 

    It's early here, getting ready to rain and my knees have me up surfing again.  That said, I just have to comment here . Don't worry, it is only my two cents.
     You know what snobbery really is?  It's taking yourself, your hobbies, or profession too seriously.  You know that is what we as humans tend to do. We like our myths whether they are real,make sense, or have any practical application what-so-ever.  For me ( and we all know how opinions are) it is more about strategy and tactics and learning how to do many things; Not focusing on the this or that knife, system, or sheath.
    Training in this arena is 'druggery' and damn hard work. To get us though this stuff we like to  enhance it with knife designs and all sorts of artsy stuff that only lends fluff to what we call combatives or martial arts. It makes us feel good and at some validity to what we are doing. Somehow it is a rationalization to justify doing something that really has a very, dark side to it.  There was a time when I thought I wouldl vomit if I saw another pocket folding 'widget' or clunkly combat knife that can be lost in the middle of the night when fumbling with one's webgear to find a map.  How long before we exhaust the many ways one can wrap a paracord handle.  Today we are beset with sheaths, and rigs and gimicks that are supposed to make us faster in putting the weapon into action.  We start to drooling over this or that special knife and be they big or small we tend to get addictive about buying them to the horror of our spouces. We get into big arguments concerning this or that 'street fighter' system, dueling vs ambush training etc. and the list goes on-and-on.  We write and buy books about this stuff too and sometimes get to obscessed about one method being superior over another.  Hey guys, that's just us.....that is what we are and we enjoy all this 'shit' because it makes it interesting for us.
   
    For me it is about being prepared not about 'changing people's mind'.  The search for that ultimate knife or fighting method will never end.  Guys like Hoch, Worden, Keating, Janish and others build beautiful. effective training programs that we love.  All those knife makers and companies provide a seemingly limitless supply of choices for whatever weapon you want.  The bottom-line is that it's not about them.  It's about you and your priorities and the choices you make to enhance your hobby or profession.  Basically it's taking the messages of the opponent, weapon, environment, and mind doing what is right for YOU. Musashi, Fiore, and many other sages said the same thing.  The decisions that I made when working for Louisiana Dept of Corrections were different than those I made for teaching big knife tactics.  The size of the knife on a tactical foot march might be weighed against how much 'crap' I have to carry.  We all have a tendency to think too techincally at the expense of missing the bigger 'conceptual' picture.  For me it is a matter of knowing 'what goes where' and making good choices.  As someone said earlier, the availability of the beer weighs heavy in the priority.  Especially when you have to wait for the exotic ale to be delivered.  Year before last my wife was almost kidnapped in a grocery store.  It was not the keys and pen knife in her purse that saved her but the circular release she did to break free and get away that did.  So I guess what I'm saying is regardless of what your martial focus is in terms of knives and methods....just keep them in perspective and know what the priority is.  Don't be too critical of the guy in the tank top and fatigues with 900 keys on his snap link......or the people who play 'dress-up' as warriors of the past.....They have all made some judgements as to what is their priority.  Just smile and hope they are enlightened  and go back to training on YOUR priority.

Sorry to ramble but this is something that is a bit close and I just wanted to comment.


All My Best
Dwight

 

[Bryan Lee]

    It's early here, getting ready to rain and my knees have me up surfing again.  That said, I just have to comment here . Don't worry, it is only my two cents.
     You know what snobbery really is?  It's taking yourself, your hobbies, or profession too seriously.  You know that is what we as humans tend to do. We like our myths whether they are real,make sense, or have any practical application what-so-ever.  For me ( and we all know how opinions are) it is more about strategy and tactics and learning how to do many things; Not focusing on the this or that knife, system, or sheath.
    Training in this arena is 'druggery' and damn hard work. To get us though this stuff we like to  enhance it with knife designs and all sorts of artsy stuff that only lends fluff to what we call combatives or martial arts. It makes us feel good and at some validity to what we are doing. Somehow it is a rationalization to justify doing something that really has a very, dark side to it.  There was a time when I thought I wouldl vomit if I saw another pocket folding 'widget' or clunkly combat knife that can be lost in the middle of the night when fumbling with one's webgear to find a map.  How long before we exhaust the many ways one can wrap a paracord handle.  Today we are beset with sheaths, and rigs and gimicks that are supposed to make us faster in putting the weapon into action.  We start to drooling over this or that special knife and be they big or small we tend to get addictive about buying them to the horror of our spouces. We get into big arguments concerning this or that 'street fighter' system, dueling vs ambush training etc. and the list goes on-and-on.  We write and buy books about this stuff too and sometimes get to obscessed about one method being superior over another.  Hey guys, that's just us.....that is what we are and we enjoy all this 'shit' because it makes it interesting for us.
   
    For me it is about being prepared not about 'changing people's mind'.  The search for that ultimate knife or fighting method will never end.  Guys like Hoch, Worden, Keating, Janish and others build beautiful. effective training programs that we love.  All those knife makers and companies provide a seemingly limitless supply of choices for whatever weapon you want.  The bottom-line is that it's not about them.  It's about you and your priorities and the choices you make to enhance your hobby or profession.  Basically it's taking the messages of the opponent, weapon, environment, and mind doing what is right for YOU. Musashi, Fiore, and many other sages said the same thing.  The decisions that I made when working for Louisiana Dept of Corrections were different than those I made for teaching big knife tactics.  The size of the knife on a tactical foot march might be weighed against how much 'crap' I have to carry.  We all have a tendency to think too techincally at the expense of missing the bigger 'conceptual' picture.  For me it is a matter of knowing 'what goes where' and making good choices.  As someone said earlier, the availability of the beer weighs heavy in the priority.  Especially when you have to wait for the exotic ale to be delivered.  Year before last my wife was almost kidnapped in a grocery store.  It was not the keys and pen knife in her purse that saved her but the circular release she did to break free and get away that did.  So I guess what I'm saying is regardless of what your martial focus is in terms of knives and methods....just keep them in perspective and know what the priority is.  Don't be too critical of the guy in the tank top and fatigues with 900 keys on his snap link......or the people who play 'dress-up' as warriors of the past.....They have all made some judgements as to what is their priority.  Just smile and hope they are enlightened  and go back to training on YOUR priority.

Sorry to ramble but this is something that is a bit close and I just wanted to comment.


All My Best
Dwight

 

   Dwight, words of wisdom, thanks for writing as I always enjoy the read!

  A lessfalutin response to replace my earlier rant would be, a carbon steel blade with one edge would be easier to keep sharp and more productive as soon as you hit the ground for making small traps, snares, fires, and just getting through the first 24 hours if you were cold.

  In Alaska the most useful non power workhorse tool I ever had was a bow saw, thats what I would want more than anything else to make large amounts of heat and a snow castle if I had one modern tool. Figure in I always have some kind of folding knife in my pocket and the fact the most famous and usefull trapper knife ever conceived is the two bladed one made and sold to this day as just "The Trapper" and its certain that a few men have been boxed up because somebody let the air out of em with a Trapper but there wont be to many movies about that.

  There have been hundreds of men who survived the Alasken winter by eating voles aka mice and most never told the tale. There is only one that I know of who was whack enough to eat voles all winter then appear in the spring having tanned enough mouse fur to make himself a damn fine Parky, which he wore proudley. It is my oppinion that the Tom Brown knife would have been over kill in the skinning of a thousand mice but it made a right fine movie prop, as does the current Rambo knife which if one were familiar with Thailand is the kind of hammer forged tool that one can pick at about any market over here.

  The only issue I have with Brown is I think him and Tom Cruise have been sharing special Coolaid but as far as knives, Ive seen much worse. Currently I'm writing from a 50 buck a night hotel in Bangkok which is pretty fancy if you know Bangkok. If one walks out the door at 6 am as I did this morning you cant go a hundred meters without seeing twenty Chinese meat cleavers of every style and variation in action preparing breakfest for fancy tourists, locals, local mangy mutts, and the rats which out number all the rest combined, I'm probably in the third tier myself, maybe I know a few things but I certainly don't know it all, b.