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[CQCKenpo]

To all the members of Hock's Horde,

I would be interested in hearing anyone's experiences/opinions about the Russian Kettlebells.  I've been looking for something to "juice up" my workouts and have been considering including them in my workouts (sorry, but after a while I find the standard weight lifting boring).  I've read all the hype, but now I would like to hear what some of you think.  Good, bad, indifferent, or just the most recent exercise fad???

Thanks.

Steve

[Hock]

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,1028.0.html

Read and read  and read.

In summary for me, a modern hand weight is far more versitle and an evolution from the "Palm-down" world of the old kettle bell.

Hock

[grlaun]

Juice up your workout?  The kettlebells are great but I'll go one step further and recommend Renegade Training.

Simple. Intense. Short. Relevant.

I'm strapped for time so I want something thats going to benefit me but at the same time let me feel like I've worked out.  Isn't boring and creates a challenge.  www.renegadetraining.com is what i found.  Their program is designed for maximum results from your efforts and isn't too complicated.  Their Ballistic and Mad Science workouts are insanely intense and the movements are not hard to learn.  they emphasize speed and power over a lot of weight (they want you to lift the bar fast over more weight).  I absolutely love it.  they also have kettle bells and many of the dvds out their are pretty through.  I found kettle bells challenging but not overly exciting.  there is lots of info on combative sport training so if it floats your boat go for it.

[michael]

Kettlebells are a great adjunct to your training, but they are not the be all, end all to fitness that is often promoted. They will give you a taxing working, and are excellent at developing cardio endurance and grip strength, but much less so in developing limit strength. I use them a lot in my training, but only as a PART of it. I also use bodyweight and traditional barbell's and dumbbells.

I will say that KB's are a specialized tool, and most exercise that are done with a KB can also be done with a DB. However, I do think the KB adds a dimension that you don't get with DB's, and that is an unwieldy weight that must be used in very Olympic type, explosive movements which are not required with DB's.

I generally do a full-body workout with very little rest, but will use bodyweight, KB's, DB's and BB's all in one workout. I use very little rest in between sets and alternate between the different types of weight and bodyweight. I can get in an excellent and taxing workout in as little as 20 minutes when pressed for time.

[whitewolf]

Here is an exersise that helps me-I have a punching  bag that weighs around 40  pounds-I lay on floor wrap legs around it  and have two  hand  weights-
1-I do  leg  lifts while holding weights up above me
2-I do waist twists holding the hand  weights
3-i do alternate punches above  me
3-i do waist  raises holdsing the weights
also i take one foot put it on the side of the bag and roll over and punch
sence i drive 12 hours a  shift 5  days a week these seem to  help endurance and i can review some self  defense at at the same time-whitewolf

[Snowball]

The Renegade training intrigues me but their website is dizzying. Jeff, do you have a recommendation as to where to start?

Thanks for any help,

Rob

[grlaun]

Snowball:

It IS confusing.  One of the ingredients to their underground success, I'm afraid.

I'd start with the articles page, so you can see where Coach Davies is coming from.  Also check his MySpace. Check out his DVDs.  They need work as far a professional production.  Not enough angles, disjointed explanations and too much background noise.  Basically videos of some guys doing some explosive lifts.  Athlete's acceleration produced and excellent DVD on the very same lifts but I like Davies approach to training despite the below standard DVD.  The routines work and are a hell of a lot of fun.

Have fun!

[kamagong]

Hey guys!  I have been a Personal Trainer for the past 7 years, and I also teach Pilates, Yoga, and Spinning.  I have tried out Kettlebells to see if they are everything that they are touted to be.  I agree, I do like them as a suppliment to routine weight training.  However, as Hock has said before, never trust a communist.     They are not the end all be all that they were originally marketed as and they have found a niche in combat sports training and some athletic programs.  Regular weights are great, and I do agree with Hock that they are safer, and more versitile.  Kettlebells are great if you have become bored with your current program.  However, if you are not changing your routine every 4-6 weeks, you are not going to get much out of your routine anyway.

For combat athletes, I would recommend as much pure strength training as possible.  This means low numbers of sets and reps and high amounts of weights.  For example:

Squats 4 sets of 3-6 reps
Bench Press 4 sets of 3-6 reps
Row 4 sets of 3-6 reps

Work large muscle groups first, make sure to have a 1 minute rest break between sets, this will allow your muscles ample recovery time to recharge so they are able to get as much as they can out of the workout.
Next:
Standing overhead press 3 sets 6-8 reps
Biceps curl 3 sets 6-8 reps
Triceps press 3 sets 6-8 reps

Abs:
Basic floor crunch
Straight Leg Raises
Oblique Crunches
Plank

This is an all over body routine and should be done 2 x per week.  The days in between can be spent on Combative training.  Make your combat training intense.  It is not the duration of your workout, it is the intensity that makes the difference.  In weight training intensity is measured by how much weight is lifted. This workout can be done as a circuit training routine.  This means you are going for amount of time.  I usually have clients go from one exercise to the next with no break between them.  Each exercise is done for .45 seconds.  Make sure you do a good warm-up and stretch before and a good stretch at the end.





 

[Virgil]

I have a kettlebell and really like it for big compound movements that utilize both strength and cardio components.  I like them for their compound and whole-body nature, which is substantially different from the isolation of weight machines & many barbell exercises.
As Michael commented, I too use KB's as part of a program based on bodyweight exercises.  I also use gymnastic rings to amp up my bodyweight exercises, and if I could only keep one piece of equipment I'd stick w/the rings and forego the KBs

[Hock]

The question I wonder is a comparison to hand weights.

Can you name 5 exercises that you do with kettlebells that you can't also do with hand weights, and then, a worthy and significant difference for each exercise that would make me put down the hand weight and instead pick up the kettelbell?

I have trouble coming up with 2 or 3. I usually can mimic the kettlebell movement with a handweight, plus, with the kettlebell being a mostly a "palm-down" tool, the hand weight allows for wrist rotation. (Wrist rotation can help against sudden injury as the body senses a problem and tries to turn the hand)


Hock

[Jason]

 
       I think Michael hit the nail on the head. Variety is what is going to give you the best results. Take a few exercises from each specialty and include it in your workout. Heavy weights are good if you have genetically  gifted joints (which I do not), but for fighting applications light to moderate weights and higher repetitions are more appropriate. Personally, Matt Furey's Combat Conditioning has worked wonders for me, as it works your strength and cardio at the same time.

        Jason 

[Hock]

So inside this needed variety, what hand weight tool, offers the most potential variety? The "palm-down grip" kettlebell or the "any direction-palm"  hand weight?

Hock

[Jason]

          Dumbells, because of the variety of hand positions, has been my experience.

          Jason

[rutleddc]

I guess a good followup question would be: Do the kettlebell books/DVDs have good exercises to add to my routine that can be done with dumbells? Most weight lifting books emphasize isolated movements (except for a few like clean and jerk, etc.), and it would be good variety to add some integrated whole-body motions to my routine.

I never really thought about gymnastics rings. I really liked and saved the CQC newsletter articles on Indian clubs - if I found a tape or DVD it would be fun to try, at least until I club myself. 

[juszczec]

I've used kettlebells before.  They are ok for a change but Hock's right - they ain't the end all be all revolutionary weight training method some would have you believe.

I've never used Indian clubs, but I've used Scott Sonnen's clubbells but being cheap I just used and adjustable dumbbell and loaded weight on one side. 

Same criticism.

The one caution I'll give with kettlebells is to be incredibly careful about your form ESPECIALLY when swinging them.  I had the momentum of one take me back just slightly further than I could go (scar tissue in my back).  It only happened twice but set me up for a muscle spasm that yanked a vertebra out of place.

Now I'm doing lots of bodyweight exercises.  It adds a new element of pain when I do 2 min rounds on the heavy bag and then during the 30 sec rest period I do pushups or unweighted squats.

Mark