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[Hock]

On that subject of back injuries, I always get a kick when some guy who has never graduated high school, yet went to a weekend kettlebell instructor course, tells me he is going to "rehab my back" with kettlebells.

If you can't take and read an x-ray, my friend, you are no rehabbing my back!

Hock

[Jason]

        Yeah, these youngsters that got their "personal trainer" certification through the internet or a manual crack me up. My daughter (21), has a good friend that is a personal trainer, I think he might be 21. He's got her lifting weights like 2 hours a night. She's so sore that she can barely get out of bed in the morning. I tell her, " Give me 20 minutes, and I'll give you a better workout than your friend gives you in 2 hours." But, what does the old man know. I've only been working out longer than her personal trainer has been alive.

        Jason

[juszczec]

If you can't take and read an x-ray, my friend, you are no rehabbing my back!

Hock

Agreed.  A good physical therapist is worth their weight in gold.

This next part may go without saying, but sometimes restating the obvious isn't a bad thing.

Be careful, not all physical therapists are created equal.

In the early 90s, I had a great physical therapist.  She put my back and hip back together after some miserable soft tissue injuries in pretty short order.   

Then I switched insurance plans and wound up rehabbing my shoulder and other hip with a different physical therapist in a completely different group.

One year later, I could not pick up a cup off coffee nor could I chase my son across the yard.  I bumped into my old PT, completely by accident.  She told me of a special deal her hospital worked out with my because of the neglect and poor treatment - but everything's just fine now.

Bottom line - shop around.  Try to find a PT that works on pro/semi pro athletes.  Pros and semi pros can actually collect worker's comp for injuries they sustain and team owners have a big $$$ incentive to get them back to 100% and keep them there.  If your PT happens to do some kind of MA (mine does TKD) then so much the better.

If you are in NE Ohio, email me at mark.juszczec@gmail.com and I'll hook you up with mine.  She was good when I started with her in the 90s, but she's gotten better.  She's actually been able to fix some problems in 1 session - which just astounds me.

Mark

[Bryan Lee]

On that subject of back injuries, I always get a kick when some guy who has never graduated high school, yet went to a weekend kettlebell instructor course, tells me he is going to "rehab my back" with kettlebells.

If you can't take and read an x-ray, my friend, you are no rehabbing my back!

Hock

Hock you sure about that?

http://www.inosanto.com/adobedocs/200801_03_kbworkshops.pdf

[Hock]

Well, this guy is different! He has a certification in mystical Chinese medicine. First, he will give you a potion of Steaming Deer's Balls, THEN rehab your back!

Hock

[grlaun]

Steaming Deer Ball's?!?!?

ROTFLMAO!!!!! 

I guess there's something to be said 'bout Chinese medicine and kettlebells...!

[Bryan Lee]

Well, this guy is different! He has a certification in mystical Chinese medicine. First, he will give you a potion of Steaming Deer's Balls, THEN rehab your back!

Hock

  I was minding my own business walking down the street in Pusan Korea and the locals were going batshit over some guy selling soup, turns out he was making soup out of caribou horns and selling it at a discount, I just shrugged my shoulders and thought of all the horns laying on the ground up in Alaska, one of my friends that bothers with picking them up must have more than a hundred sets.

  It seems Inosanto is jumping on every single sells pitch coming down the MA pipe with him on the cover of Black Belt Magazine doing Russian Kettle balls. Don't get me wrong here, If you're some Russian guy in Russia it would be normal to be messing around with Kettle balls but if you a Filipino in California it is just flat weird.

[Hock]

It has happened!

I was in Target today and there on the shelves? They are selling kettlebells, packaged in cardboard boxes, with the handle sticking out the top.

The packaging is generically similar to all the other gear sold in such stores. There are even new DVDs and they are cheap and starring these same...generic looking...squeeky clean, smiling, health people you see in all the exercise topic DVDs.

(I am still utterly unimpressed with kettlebells, and still no one can show me 5 worthwhile exercises I can only do with kettlebells that I could not also do with hand weights.)

Hock

[michael]

It's not so much that you cannot do the same exercises with dumbells, it is that the weight is awkward and you have to work more to control it in certain movements, particularly the snatch and level 2 figure 8's. I use dumbells as well, and there is nothing magical about KB's, but I do prefer them for certain exercises.

[Hock]

"...but I do prefer them for certain exercises."

Which ones?

Hock

[michael]

"...but I do prefer them for certain exercises."

Which ones?

Hock

Swings, Level 2 figure 8's, snatches, get-up situps, one-arm overhead alternating DARC swings.

Those are the main ones where I prefer the KB. You can most of them with a DB, but it is not the same. The big difference I see with KB's is the weight if offset from the handle and you have to work to control the weight, which you don't with a DB. You also have to use a crushing grip to control the decent of the KB after it flips over the wrist in the snatch, which increases grip strength. Same thing with the clean and press---you have to squeeze the bell to keep the KB from banging your forearm, which increases grip/forearm strength. You don't have to do that with a DB.

By all means, I'm not saying everyone should throw away their DB's and buy KB's. I like DB's a lot and still use them and they are great, but so are KB's, just in a different way.

[Hock]

Having down some of the basic kettlebell exercises with a Pavlov guy, I know the subject of the flipping hand weight is always brought up, and I see the difference in the flip. Not enough to go out and buy the whole set of kettlebells, just for the benefits of wrestling with a kettlebell flip.

With the concept of changing exercises to keep the body challenged and growing, I wonder if the flip move then become "less productive" through time? Then you are stuck with "flip-based" handle weights that demand the same flipping to use?  With the handle and shape, you are stuck with the same kind of flip....forever?

And to ignite the flip muscles, I could just do another hand exercises with the modern dumbbell to replace the one flip benefit.  Wrist work on four directions, sides, forward and back and then various "finger rolls" that are easy to do with the modern dumb bell. Many are exercises I could not do with the kettlebell because of it shape.

But anyway, the "flipping" is common kettlebell benefit lots of people talk about.

I am still on the hunt for the other 4 benefits exclusive to the kettlebell. (But, you know, I guess if I can do more forearm exercises with the modern dumb-bell, then maybe that even disqualifies the "kettlebell flip" as some kind of exclusive and worthy exercise?)

Hock

[michael]

You can make arguments pro and con all day long, but in the end it comes down to what you prefer to use for certain exercises. There are benefits to both, and I think KB's are benefical for certain exercises. If you don't, that's cool. I've been working out continuously for about 35 years now, and I constantly change up what I am doing. Also, you really don't have to buy a bunch of KB's. I've got exactly 4---a 26 lb'r that my wife uses, and a 35, 44, and 53. That's it, a grand total of 4. I can do anything I need to with those 4, though I would like to get one heavier one at some point. I bought mine off ebay fairly inexpensively (except for shipping). I also have a complete Olympic weight set, 2 benches, Barbells, Dumbells, Pull-up/Dip bar, wavemaster and BOB bags, Hoist 210 machine, elliptical trainer, medicine balls, kicking shields and focus mitts, gloves, training knives.........and on and on. I've been collecting equipment for years, and add to it as I see fit. It is a lifetime endeavor like my training, so why limit myself?

As far as the "flipping" goes, I like it. It has added a lot of strength to my grip and forearms that I did not get with traditional weights, and after using them for over a year, I still get benefit from it. It has not caused my training to stagnate yet. Sure, you can do additional exercises with DB's to get a similar effect, but I like to keep my workouts to 30-35 minutes, combining weight-lifting, bodyweight exercises and cardio all in one intense circuit. KB's help me to keep the heart rate high, especially when doing high rep snatches and swings. YMMV.

[comebackkidct]

Just another tool in the toolbox.  They're unique in the sense that the weight is off-centered, so it adds a new dynamic and requires much more stabilization, balance, and coordination.  Also, for things like swings, the lever arm actually increases allowing more work to be performed (more power output) but also adds more shear force on the lumbar spine.

[fkruger]

I have kettlebells but still prefer bodyweight training. You can do it anywhere and it works. The best source I found for information and it is inexpensive for the material you get is at www.rosstraining.com  This guy practices what he preaches - I have never gymless but plan on getting his other books. Check it out give it a try.
Mike