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W. Hock Hochheim's

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  • January 16, 2018, 11:07:17 PM
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Author Topic: New to Guns  (Read 4019 times)

fkruger

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New to Guns
« on: January 31, 2005, 10:45:13 AM »

Hi forum members I have a feeling i wil get my chops busted for this but hay I never though i would ned to own any. My delima, About a year ago I bought my first gun from a realitive it is a Ruger KP95D and for Christmas I got a Sig P239. I took a basic class and shot the Ruger many times during the year and only shot the sig once. I would like to get better training and plan on joining the Issac Walton League this sping so I can practice shooting more often. Does anyone have any advice on a progression for training and gain skills?
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Professor

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2005, 12:20:08 PM »

Hi forum members I have a feeling i wil get my chops busted for this but hay I never though i would ned to own any. My delima, About a year ago I bought my first gun from a realitive it is a Ruger KP95D and for Christmas I got a Sig P239. I took a basic class and shot the Ruger many times during the year and only shot the sig once. I would like to get better training and plan on joining the Issac Walton League this sping so I can practice shooting more often. Does anyone have any advice on a progression for training and gain skills?

Get a good holster and belt.  I would work with the Sig rather than the Ruger...it'll probably take you farther.  You'll also have a wider variety of gun gear.

Best you can do....draw, shoot once, reholster.   This video will give you a very good start:

GUNSITE TACTICAL PISTOL I ( video )



This one will take you as far as you probably want to go:

GUNSITE TACTICAL PISTOL II ( video )




Both are good videos and will provide you a video on the basics.....good luck.

Jeff
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

pbowling

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2005, 05:09:42 PM »

If there is a shooting club around, join.  Check your local area for an IDPA group (www.idpa.com).  Try to find an active shooter and shoot with them.  As the professor noted, get a good gun holster and belt.  I also agree on the Sig 239.  If you can borrow a holster before buying it you may save some $$.  There are inside the pants holsters, pancakes, belt worn, leather, Kydex and various other types and sub-types.  I'd also suggest that you have at least 3 - 4 magazines and a magazine pouch.  I have at least 10 mags for all my autoloaders and more for the ones that I shoot regularly.
If you're in the Washington, DC area give me a call.  I don't need much of an excuse to go to the range!! 
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Paul

Be alert, decisive, agressive, fast, cool, ruthless and keep the element of surprise on your side!

fkruger

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2005, 01:34:08 PM »

Hi and Thanks De Professor and pbowling,

I will check get the videos within a couple of weeks and pwoling I live in Dumfries and work in Norhtern VA. Any experience will help.
Mike R
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Hock

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2005, 06:29:56 AM »

oops, oops, oops!
Don't forget my gun DVDs!
Those Gunsite ones are....(yawn)...soooo typical, BUT if you have never seen them it is all new.  My DVDs are more concerned with actually shooting at people while they are shooting back.

See:
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/gun_combat_counter-gun_combat_tactics.html


"15 minutes on the range? 45 minutes using simulated ammo."
Hock

Professor

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2005, 01:04:29 PM »


oops, oops, oops!
Don't forget my gun DVDs!
Those Gunsite ones are....(yawn)...soooo typical, BUT if you have never seen them it is all new.  My DVDs are more concerned with actually shooting at people while they are shooting back.

See:
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/gun_combat_counter-gun_combat_tactics.html



I agree, BUT the gunsite videos are great for the tactical basics.     Get the basics so that you can stay safe, then work with the real guns.
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Contractor

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2005, 08:46:20 AM »

I agree with the previous posts, the Sig is the better choice but don't get rid of the Ruger just yet.  They are like an old Ford truck.  They might not be pretty, but they run.  And you should always have more than one gun.  The holsters are equally important - think quality.  I don't know how many people I see with a 600 + dollar handgun stuffed into a $20 holster that does not fit.  I have something like four for my carry gun.  Some days an Inside the Waistband (IWB) works, others the Paddle ect.

The videos are a good start.  And Hock, that sounds like shamless self-promoting.  We are talking about the basics right?  Crawl before you walk, walk before you run.   There is no such thing as "Elite Combat Secrets" or any of that crap when it comes to pistol or any type of shooting, so watch the sales tactics of DVDs or Actual classes.  High Speed is nothing more than the basics done fast.  Elite shooters get to be that way because they practice not because they know some supper Ninja shooter stuff.
 
Before much range time with the holster, practice dry fire drills from the holster.  This is assuming that you have learned the basic safety fundamentals and have fired a little on the range to get familiar.

Nothing is better than a good instructor.  I have shot almost all my life, served in the Army as an Infantry Paratrooper, worked in Federal Law Enforcement and the private sector.   At one point in time I took a two day course at an established National shooting school.  I learned more in two days than anything before or after!!  Well worth the money.  Just as anything else, vet your instructor.  Not all are what they claim to be.

Not too sure of what is in your area, but I know Masayad Ayoob (spelling?) is someware in the NE.  Excellent, if you could train under him you would be far, far ahead of the game.

Just MHIO though.

out.
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Hock

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2005, 10:29:31 AM »

High Speed is nothing more than the basics done fast. Elite shooters get to be that way because they practice not because they know some super Ninja shooter stuff.

High speed just might mean simulated ammo interaction in situations.

My Gun level 1 teaches all the drawstroke basics, but with simulated ammo. (This is great for safety with brand new people.) The only difference is they quickly get to shoot a real person drawing back at them. I believe that the earlier, the sooner a person experiences this, the better they will evaluate the true value of all future training and define what the basics are. That is why I "yawn" at the massive amount of replicated videos on the marketplace.

New people need to know which end of the gun to point down range. How to reload etc. Sure. That is why God made ranges. Range shooting is just a shell game of targets and time clocks and it must be devalued for combat shooting training.

Sure, some basics at the range must be done. It is batting practice in a cage. Gunfighting is the base ball game. its just that most people never leave the cage. There whole life is spent coming and going to that batting cage. Then in a game? They forget they have to run to fist base after hitting the ball. So many veteran shooters seems to spend their whole lives so happliy in the "crawling" category, forever in that batting cage.

I started working on interactive shooting concepts back in 1998. Steve Krystek (former military SWAT commander, DOE SWAT and big city cop) and I started leaning toward situational training with simulated ammo as often as possible.

Month after month, I see the highest-speed people, brimming with decades of basics, really veteran shooting instructors, die like dogs when they draw and shoot versus shooting opponents in these simulated ammo situations. Sadly, I routinely see teenagers with little basics kill these vets too in situational training. (How? these slinky "kids" turn sideways, actively dodge the barrel and move quick -something gas and sims guns bring out in people-all the while shooting back)

At this point it became hard for me to define what exactly is "basic training" and what the very first, say ten things, a basic class should entail. Learning how to run the gun? Sure. At the range. Sure. But I became non-tradtional. Is it also experiencing a few Level 1 simple, common basic gunfights to get your head on straight about what exactly you are actually doing.

15 minutes on the range. 45 minutes in intercative, simulated shooting. A ratio I believe in. As quickly as possible. I hate to define that as basic, advanced or ninja. So when you say, doing the basics over and over again....it really is a semantic discussion on what is "basic." (except the "ninja" stuff, which is a great subject for another thread)


And Hock, that sounds like shamless self-promoting.

Yup. After someone shamelessly promoted the Gunsite videos? I shamelessly promoted mine. This came on a day when every page on this forum was shamelessly promoting their instructor, their webpage, their seminars and the latest tapes. I would also consider the products running down the left side of this page as shameless promotion too. I guess I never, really, completey bought into that monk thing that David Carradine tried to promote back in the 1970s. I am just a failed grasshopper with a truck payment, a house payment and a regular craving for pork chops.

Shamelessly,
Hock
« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 02:08:36 PM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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chameleon

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2005, 03:17:56 PM »

I have had the most wonderful experiance with Progresive F.O.R.C.E. Concepts.
www.pfctraining.com

I like the training so much, I became the East Coast Training coordinator for PFC.

Please check out the web site for training.

Thanks
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Arthur Franco
East Coast Training Coordinator
Progressive F.O.R.C.E. Concepts
www.pfctraining.com

Kentbob

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2005, 08:23:45 AM »

Hey, contractor, you were a paratrooper?  What unit?  I was in the 504th, and the 501st, myself.  What years?  Ever go anywhere?  At any rate, I took the Gunsite level 1 defensive pistol course back in september.  It was from one of their affiliated instructors up in Alaska, a Mr. Steve McDaniels.  Wonderful guy, very knowledgeable.  Also, a guy who looks at the totality of combat, not just at the gun as the be all and end all.  Again fascinating stuff, and I highly reccommend the course to anyone.  I think that the shooting aspect will dovetail nicely with the material that Hock teaches, as long as one keeps in mind the totality aspect.  Me and my buddy would go to the range afterwards, and practice various scenarios, shooting around corners, coming out of a store, that kind of stuff.  Granted, no one was shooting back, but it was good nonetheless.  Again, just my two cents.


Kent
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Heath

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2005, 10:48:55 AM »

I am also new to pistols and i was fortunate enough to go to Hocks seminar this past Jan. in Las Vegas. On the last day,we had Brian come out from www.pfctraining.com and give us a few hours of his time. It was fantastic! I have fired many rifles but never got the inside look to using a pistol in a combat manner. I would look these people up if you get the chance.. i think it would be worth your time.

just my .02
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chameleon

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2005, 05:44:30 AM »

Hi Heath, that's what I've been trying to tell all those shooters from the Las Vegas area!
PFC has a fantastic training area, and top shelf instructors. PFC has a wide array of training available, and they are very good in all aspects.
We are fortunate they open their doors to us.
These guys are the real deal!
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Arthur Franco
East Coast Training Coordinator
Progressive F.O.R.C.E. Concepts
www.pfctraining.com

Contractor

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2005, 08:13:55 AM »

Kentbob,
I just read your post; the net has been spotty here.  I was with the 501st as well.  Apache Co.  PCSd to Rich in 97 and got out in 00.  So I missed out on the Afghanistan deployment.  I think you mentioned that you were with them at that time.  Im currently in Baghdad now, what part of this lovely country are you in?
Stay safe and keep your head down.  Remember when in doubt, reload. ;)

On the subject of guns, an excellent post by Bujinkandas on being prepared and his ordeal in an off duty shooting.  Very well written and informative.

P.S. Sorry to everyone else about the personal message.
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Kentbob

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2005, 08:58:29 AM »

Hey, contractor, I was in Apache as well.  I am in FOB Wilson, up by Ad Dawr.  Hows tricks down there in Baghdad?  Take care of yourself, and don't bunch up.


Kent
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Heath

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2005, 10:52:25 AM »

Hi Heath, that's what I've been trying to tell all those shooters from the Las Vegas area!
PFC has a fantastic training area, and top shelf instructors. PFC has a wide array of training available, and they are very good in all aspects.
We are fortunate they open their doors to us.
These guys are the real deal!

well, i wish i could get more time to get some training from them. Brian just gave a couple of hours talking and then walked us through some room clearing while the other group worked on Hocks senario's. Like i said, i dont have much pistol experience but i do have some rifle experience from the military and growing up near the woods. I was amazed at how he brought the pistol information down to our different levels. I would and do recommend the PFC to people if they are interested.
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chameleon

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2005, 05:57:40 AM »

Hi Heath,
Good to hear you had such a good experiance with PFC. You see first hand the type of training available from PFC.It is this that I find advantageous, and why I believe in this group.
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East Coast Training Coordinator
Progressive F.O.R.C.E. Concepts
www.pfctraining.com

fkruger

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Re: New to Guns
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2005, 09:30:32 AM »

 Firt of all I would like to say thanks to everybody with all the information. I have plans this summer to get some training. Any ideas for holsters for my SIg would be helpful. I feel a respons here is better than getting the sales pisct from my local gun stores.

I would like to reply to this:
Yup. After someone shamelessly promoted the Gunsite videos? I shamelessly promoted mine. This came on a day when every page on this forum was shamelessly promoting their instructor, their webpage, their seminars and the latest tapes. I would also consider the products running down the left side of this page as shameless promotion too. I guess I never, really, completey bought into that monk thing that David Carradine tried to promote back in the 1970s. I am just a failed grasshopper with a truck payment, a house payment and a regular craving for pork chops.

Hock of course I will check out your tape also. But better yet I will even supply your pork chops.

Mike R.



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