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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Author Topic: women's self defense  (Read 12275 times)

ghostrider

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women's self defense
« on: February 26, 2008, 05:32:00 PM »

Was wondering if anyone has any ideas about how to best set up a program for self defense for women. Things such as how long it should be...6 weeks, 8weeks, etc. A rotation type of program perhaps. What should be covered in a program exactly. My thinking was maybe a 9 or 12 week program covering basic striking tools, hitting focus pads and shields to develop the tools, scenio type introduction, topics of awareness and understanding fear. Any ideas would be great as I have been asked to teach a group of women.
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Trainer

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 05:57:39 PM »

everything you teach to man should be taught to a women, you are either fighting or your not. Gender has little to do with it
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whitewolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 11:39:38 PM »

GhostR-go with trainer says-man or  woman-when they attack one has to  defend-in fact if a woman is attacked and really  has  had good (i say good) training they come out of it a  lot  better-here are some thoughts on the training:
1-Start by explaining fear and how it freezes a person
2-Immediately on first session start working on alertness to situations
3-forget katas and the time it takes to  learn one
4-teach to act and not react (it will be to  late)
5-learn how to spot a stalker-follower in a mall-approaching car-driving in a city-
   use of a cell phone in a panic situation-learn areas close to  home to drive to i.e. police/fire/24 hour store
6-carry a pair of sneakers in car or at  work-when traveling at  night put them on even in the car if they are worried about walking in high  heels (no one thinks of that)
7-when leaving work -take off expensive jewlery that shows
8-teach them to  walk in strong aggressive manner like they are ready to KILL if need be
   (that is called a new york city  walk)
Ill leave the actual drills for CQ to you -these are just extra  tips of the trade as i  was shown and use when i  teach- say  safe  whitewolf (el lobo blanco)

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ghostrider

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 08:20:22 AM »

Thanks guys for the advice! Anyone else care to share?
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Tank

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 09:50:47 AM »

Ghostrider,

I totally agree with trainer and whitewolf that the material taught to men should be no different than that taught to a woman, BUT it is very important that your teaching methods are conformed such that it does not scare away clients.

In our classes, we have had many different age women attend, and the overriding obstacle to overcome is the fear that is instilled within a woman's mind, that a man is superior. When a man comes to class, he enjoys the physical contact and the hard training routines. However, it takes some effort to get the women to buy into the proper training methods. You just never know what she may have been through.

It will take time with them and remember, they're on an emotional level and we think logically!

We had a mid 50's woman and her granddaughter join our class last night that has never had any martial arts experience before, and she loved it. I personally was her training partner, and I had to be very careful not to frighten her. It seems corny to us, but its real.
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whitewolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 10:02:58 AM »

Davesdog3-not corny at all-when i was teaching the ladies (2 had been assaulted) - took my time and built up the defenses gradually-i think that teaching a rape victim is probably one of the hardest things to accomplish in a school -you are up against fear/denil/weakness of the individual/injuryconfidentiallity-all of which need to  be addressed-whitewolf
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 08:25:53 PM »

Ghostrider,
I have used Hock's first three levels of Unarmed Combatives as a tool for a basic crash self defense course (I think this is what Hock uses for the "Civilian Crash Self Defense course). When I leave out the block/pass/pin drills, I've been able to teach this in 10 hours, with some great results.
I was contracted to teach an Air National Guard unit basic self defense tactics prior to deployment overseas. Although I only had two women in that class, both of them exhibited increased confidence and were able to perform not only the strikes but also all of the takedowns just as efficiently as the men by the end of the training. In the first few classes, only myself or one of my training partners put their hands on them. The last class was nothing but combat scenarios, and they performed flawlessly in front of their unit commander against the biggest guys in the class.
Although I agree with Trainer that women should be taught the same techniques as men, women face the additional threat of rape and are usually grabbed or otherwise "manhandled" differently than men generally are. Their assailant has some intentions for them that most men don't have to deal with. With that being said, I believe that, although the techniques taught should be the same, the emphasis should be different. Women generally need additional attention towards developing a survivor mentality and finding their own internal switch to turn on the "beast". They usually have some obstacles to overcome to be able to react to physical encounters/assaults in a manner aggressively enough to ensure survival.
At one time, the class I taught at NAS Meridian had eight women in it. In the beginning, the majority exhibited fear just as I approached them. By the time they certified in the very first module, one of them almost broke my fingers!
Congratulations on your new challenge. I believe you'll find your new students will react very positively towards your efforts to meet their needs; respect and attentiveness will probably be regarded more importantly than what techniques you actually teach them or what format you use. Good luck!
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ghostrider

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2008, 02:46:29 PM »

Again thanks for everyone's comments and directions! I have taught women self defense in group fashion before but, as in anything, felt it lacked some better tone to it. Really I guess it boils down to learning and teaching those things that a woman can use right away. It is pretty much the philosophy in teaching a subject and make sure students are understanding just what you are teaching them, as well as, being able to apply it right away. For me its just learning each time I do it. I definitely want this subject to be something a woman can walk away with and use, if needed. I try to see how it would be if I were in their shoes and needed important information right away.

Dawg, sounds like you've been using hock's material pretty successfully and from you describe...folks do pick it up right away. How did you go about teaching each module? Could you break it down for me step by step? Again I'm working on better teaching, learning, and finding out the facts.
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2008, 10:00:31 PM »

Ghostrider,
Believe it or not, I pretty much teach in the same format Hock uses in his "Training Mission" books.
1) Demonstrate and then have class perform the technique from the neutral, right and left stances (whatever the particular strike or kick is for a given module).
2) Demonstrate and then have class perform the technique using the statue drill.
3) I skip the block/pass/pin drill with the "crash" courses, but I use it a lot in my weekly classes.
4) Demonstrate and then have class perform the combat scenarios. In a one hour session, I try very hard to give the students 30 minutes performing the scenarios.
The scenarios seem to really help me see where students need my help the most. When I'm challenged by time, the students ability to perform the particular scenario helps me to identify weaknesses and encourage strengths better than just watching their execution of techniques in isolation (does that make any sense?).
Hock's outlines for each module are also of great assistance to ensure I don't unintentionally leave out any key elements.
Within each module you use the skills developed to perform the scenarios. Each module completed builds the arsenal of the student as the combat scenarios get a little more challenging. Usually by Level Three, many students are inserting strikes and kicks and combinations of techniques all on their own to perform the various takedowns within each combat scenario.
I hope this helps. I'm always looking for input myself to help me become a better instructor.
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ghostrider

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 10:12:19 PM »

Thanks dawg, it is definitely much planning and seeking to put things together as you know. I strive to learn and teach in a manner that best benefits the student...the knowledge and welfare of the student always comes first. Making them street ready is one of my main stays. Thanks for your time in putting things in there.

Ghostrider
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2008, 10:24:28 PM »

Ghostrider,
Thanks!
But, on this one, Hock's the one who put in all the time. He developed his Training Mission books, the DVD's and all the great seminars. I just like passing a good thing on. And I'm also very grateful I didn't get stuck with putting all this information together. Wow!
I was having a terrible time organizing my own material when I came across Hock's; what a relief. I enjoy my job and I enjoy training, but I HATE paperwork!
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Lone Wolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2008, 11:43:03 AM »

Ghostrider,

     I would also suggest looking at Nick Hughs combatives series.  Even though it is targeted to a military audience, the program is designed to be taught in a fairly short period of time and it is nice to hear how another instructor presents the material, as Nick does a great job.  You can just leave out the sentry removal stuff and be specific to your audience:)  Also, there is a video put out by Meredeth Gold (I think she used to be a moderator of sorts here) the name of which slips my mind that is tailored to women from a woman's perspective which may be helpful to you.
     And last but not least by any stretch of the imagination is Hock's 12 - step program as listed in his blogs I think.  If you go thru that outline and awnser the questions in a way specific to your audience coupled with the techniques in Hock's UC 1-3 and Hughs 1-3 you will have a very good product I believe.  And you can adjust this outline to any length of time you have been given.  Good luck.

Loy
     
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whitewolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2008, 12:52:45 PM »

Ghost Rider-sounds like Dawg and some of the others who teach daily have the right info for you to use=just keep in  mind ask the female student if they  ever had any attacks against them-if they reply yes-be careful and take it  slowly-step by step-work on getting their confidence back-if they came to the class that is a plus for them-ill pass this on-I had a female contact me for lessons as she was being stalked-by the raqpist-
the first time we met she wanted to  go  back  home-we had to sit out on the steps in the parking lot for 1/2 hour then she came into the class room-it took a lot of patience before she would train-but after a month i had to use a mouth piece and she really took it out on me-felt pretty good that she came along so far in a  month-her and her husband got transfered to  hawaii soon after the month was up and she said thank you-whitewolf
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ghostrider

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2008, 11:11:46 PM »

Thanks for the help on all of this, one and all. This forum really helps out when you have good questions that need answering. Gets tough out there in the real world when you don't have the right help to guide you along the way.  My hats off to you dawg, Loy, and whitewolf!

Ghostrider
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 06:34:33 PM »

Ghostrider,
You're welcome!
I feel the same way about this forum. I have been helped numerous times with direct responses to my questions and have learned a lot just from reading the posts of many others. There is a wealth of information to be learned here and a pool of experience that is second to none. Lots of great folks who don't mind sharing their ideas and experiences with others.
Although there is the occasional character who causes some problems, that's a small price to pay for everything that is available here.
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ghostrider

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2008, 10:16:51 PM »

I've taught a few times before on this subject but never felt it was as good as it could be. I guess that has to do with learning from what you teach and how to make it better than before. I'm always concerned about what I teach because it is a great responsibility when teaching this kind of information to others. And definitely I don't want to teach something that will get someone hurt of killed.

Your right about the occasional character dawg. They do tend to come in and say nothing when they speak.
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2008, 10:43:55 PM »

Sounds to me like your heart's in the right place!
I'm always asking my training partners for feed back when they're helping me teach a class. I'm always trying to figure out ways to provide maximum quantity without hurting the quality. I think it's supposed to be that way. I've had some great instructors in my past and they all taught me more than just martial arts and self defense techniques. I want to be that same kind of instructor (or better!) to each student I have.

I sure do wish you the best of luck with your class!

We're going to hold some free self defense seminars just for the ladies this summer; hopefully, it'll go well. If not, at least I'm trying.

Isn't it the USA network that advertises "Characters wanted"?  ::)   

 
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grlaun

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2008, 06:57:07 AM »

Don't hold FREE clinics!  Charge $10!  Otherwise it'll be worth what you charge to the people who see the ad.  Advertise that the proceeds will go to a battered woman's shelter or breast cancer research and you'll get a better response.

Free is a waste of time.
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2008, 09:11:14 AM »

We were going to do it as a community service for the advertising to promote our self defense class. I really like the idea of supporting our local battered women's shelter. I'll be checking into that and let you know what I find out.
As always, Rawhide, I appreciate your input!
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grlaun

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2008, 03:51:02 PM »

Or perhaps use in conjunction with a shelter, police or an abuse awareness group.
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Cheat in Beginning - Cheat in the Middle - Cheat in the End
Official Evil Ninja - 2008
Texas Peace Officer 8/2009
"You're making the wrong assumption that a Marine by himself is outnumbered"
Gen Peter Pace, 28Jul06
"You tell that muthaf**ka, he owes me money!"

Milldog1776

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2008, 05:41:52 PM »

Don't hold FREE clinics!  Charge $10!  Otherwise it'll be worth what you charge to the people who see the ad.  Advertise that the proceeds will go to a battered woman's shelter or breast cancer research and you'll get a better response.

Free is a waste of time.

Agreed!  Free only gets you more customers who want shit for free. The people who come to free events can't afford your other events or classes. Hence...not your customers.

The only way free works is to turn it into a MASS ENROLLMENT at the end. Save 20 minutes at the end to give your sales pitch. Make sure to make it a "Today only deal!", or people will want to "think about it".
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2008, 06:56:20 PM »

Thanks for the great advice guys! I already talked to Master Carr about it, and he agreed with you.
He's contacting our local shelter to get the ball rolling. We're planning to hold the first seminar in May or June, and will decide how to proceed depending on the turnout.
I am NOT a businessman, but I'm willing to learn!
 

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ghostrider

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2008, 08:26:30 PM »

Just to let you know. I had the first class today with about 5 women in attendance. There were suppose to be others but due to miscommunication the word didn't get out like it should. But that's ok for the first day. Went over such topics as using your head instead of fists, Accept that you can be attacked, be prepared, paying attention to envirnoment, fear management. Then used posture and the finger strikes module. Everyone got in some of their experiences. I found that personality plays in each person in how to face a situation. One lady had actually been abducted at gun point at work. She was sitting in her car in the parking lot and was surprised by a man with a gun. He managed to get her to drive to an ATM. She said he was really nervous while pointing the gun at her while she drove. She also said that she disarmed him verbally by conversing with him about herself. This apparently got him to calm down and put the gun down in his lap while he turned his head to look out the door window. As she approached the ATM she managed to surprise him when she jumped out of the car to escape. It wasn't long after the police got him. Now she did ask if a man points a gun at someone and tells them to get in the car whether they should or not. I told her that under no circumstances should anyone ever do that because even though they say they won't kill you the chances are they will if they take you out somewhere. But under the circumstances, in her case, she did manage to keep a cool head and talk the guy down somewhat.
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whitewolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2008, 11:00:09 PM »

Ghost rider-here is another practical exersise-Have the student be at car when she  or he is approached-the criminal asks for the car keys and they are given-then the victim is told to go to trunk and it is opened-and told to  get in-does she get in or  not-(of course if she does its all over)-but ask the student should they  get  in or not?? You get some good answers from the student. At this point in time the student has to  have  made some decision on what is to  do and try not to just give in-a  very hard moment for them-
Should she have thown the keys away   before hand-should she have imediatelly attacked the attacker? Lots of options in a moments notice..Reolizing that each sanario is different it gives them some ideas on what really  might happen. Good to train and prapare for the real situations as different as each one may  be....going along with this-
the student should be advised about where to  park in  a mall lot-near lights-entrances-security booths-exits to  streets/highways-not out in the end of the lot-hope this post assists-whitewolf (el  lobo blanco)
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ghostrider

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2008, 09:14:13 PM »

ah yes wolf! I did tell a bit about the idea of getting into the car or not and it did strike up a conversation indeed. Such things as should you just get out of the car or should you first look around the area first, If someone approaches the car what do you do if they want you to roll the window down, checking the car before you get into it to see if someone is in there. Lots of things to think about. I will definitely put your suggestions to good use there wolf.

I've been really thinking everything through too. Doing lots of research about how things affect you before, during, and after a situation. Even looked at youtube at some of the videos of Geoff Thompson, Richard Grannon, and a few others. Getting more ideas from their past experiences in during with situations. Everytime I think about it I'm finding there is more to learn!
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whitewolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2008, 07:29:26 AM »

Ghost rider-hope all is  going well with your  lessons for the women-Dawg-glad you  jumped in also-as for me this forum gives one a  great deal of one the money type training in the real  world-i look at the forum daily either before or after work-sometimes i  dont respond-just  read and digest-oh Dawg- check out the webb site called =forever we served/-USMC and Corpsmen comments-seya whitewolf
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shastana

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2008, 10:13:23 AM »

Another great idea is to contact Mike Belzer.  He is a CA instructor, look on Hocks instructor page.  His wife Merideth is a well known expert, cover of Black Belt mag and all that.  They do all kinds of great training with women, and they would likely give you some really good advice too!
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whitewolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2008, 12:31:44 AM »

Hey Dawg-after thinking about it  i vote myself as a character-weeeeeee-i love it-for my 70th birthday i am going to  give  myself a pat on the back and run for Mayor of Kuwait
whitewolf-(el lobo blanco)
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Dawg

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2008, 08:06:55 PM »

Whitewolf,
I officially cast my vote for you as a character! I'll gladly give you a pat on the back, even if I see you before your 70th birthday.
As far as running for Mayor of Kuwait...if that's what floats your boat, more power to you.
I sincerely hope I never have to be in that part of the world ever again. ::)

Ghostrider,
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger! I'm always looking at new stuff myself. I don't want to be one of those guys that think they know it all...I want to be the guy who's always learning, always evolving and always remembers all the effort others made to get him to where he is. Open minded and trainable...somedays I do better at it than others, but I try.
I'm glad to hear your new class is going well!
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whitewolf

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Re: women's self defense
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2008, 11:17:31 AM »

Here is another training sanario for the ladies=have them program your number into their cell-tell them that that is what they would call in emergancy-then have them go outside in lot and have a instructor bother them so they have to use cell phone and call for assistance-see how  many will be able to  do it under pressure -when did it the students made the following mistakes:
1-dropped the phone 2-could not find the correct number 3-most serious was student did great calling for help-except she forgot to tell her location before ending call-
practising again helped them clm down and get the message out  correctly

hope that also will help=whitewolf
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