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Author Topic: Special Operations Martial Arts  (Read 9929 times)

Bryan Lee

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Special Operations Martial Arts
« on: March 26, 2008, 10:49:28 AM »



  Warning, this is going to get deep! There is not really any good place to start this as its a very broad subject matter filled with truth and deception. First thing, this is a Army matter but it will have to be hashed out here in public, private forums and emails will no longer cut it as the matter has been taken to far already.

 

  Let me begin with a few exhibits as follow, Yes, This is from Black Belt Magazine.


















 
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Bryan Lee

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 10:56:19 AM »



  The magazine article was pretty self explanatory. That information led to these two documents being produced, these documents are valid. This is in no way an attack on Blaise Loong but but one cannot sort through this subject matter without including him as he is a central character. I have defended him and these documents in the past and I will continue to do so as long as they remain relevant.




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theardri

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 11:10:34 AM »

Ok you defend Blaise, by extension does this include Webb? Just curious, as we all know how unpopular he is with the NJ set ("Fabio" they call him...). I've been to a seminar of his, and unlike Jordan who liked to use me as a demo dummy (grrr damn him ;) ) I did not come out of it wimpering (I learned a lot from both).

I own some of Blaise's DVDs, and actually like them.
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Bryan Lee

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 11:59:04 AM »




  So where is this going? That is a damn good question! While it is a fact that in the mid eighties James Webb was a CW2 and that he did sign the second document presented which authorized Blaise Loong to qualify Instructors in Special Forces Combatives the rest of the story is not as clear.

  I like to keep up with what goes on in my own backyard. for the last 6 years that backyard has been Thailand, I have not left Southeast Asia since I came here from Japan Oct/Nov 2002. I have been involved with knives and military subject matter my entire life so getting my first computer in 2003 led me into the Online Combatives Community. I have been fortunate to make some good friends via the net, but I have also encountered some nut cases and other less desirables. Stating the obvious I have a pretty good idea about what goes on around Thailand with both the U.S. Military and with civilians who are involved with any type of Military Training. When Glen Zwiers the Australian representative showed up here in Phuket I was given a first hand report of the class and wish I would have attended it. Some may remember and Hock can confirm this, I was only interested in meeting Hock and the knife class, Hock could not make it, so I didn't go either.

   This brings us back to the matter at hand, in January of 2008 James Webb put on another class here in Thailand that has brought up many questions. I have sent him numerous e-mails to which he never responded to any of them. To be fair, one of his representatives did email me back and so did Geoff Tank Todd,  but none of my original questions have ever been answered, if anything more questions have come to mind.

   While I'm not a linage guy and I can take from any source I do relate to linages and when people use linage to verify themselves as instructors and subject matter experts they should be comfortable in explaining exactly how they got from point A to point B. As much as I could I have avoided having my picture taken over the years but others seem to be just the opposite of this. It seems they are similar to Forrest Gump in they have their picture taken with everyone and anyone with a name then post it all over the place as some fashion of evidence that they are who they say they are because they have a picture. In the case of Geoff Tank Todd it is taken to the extreme, he has thrown around more names and presented more pictures than any single Martial Artist I'm aware of. I have no way to validate or invalidate his claims but it is a fact he was never in the military, I have no idea why he was not. In fact I was under the impression from his websites that he was Kiwi Special Forces. When I looked further into the matter the only thing I could find was a reference to him being issued some kind of document from guess who? none other than James Webb. The document which I have never seen nor has anyone else would have been issued by James Webb here in Thailand but unlike the document issued to Blaise Loong would not be a Military Document or Diploma as nobody but Active Duty are authorized to produce such documents.

   In fact the whole Special Forces Combatives has now come into question. The first question would be exactly what is Special Forces Combatives?


http://books.google.co.th/books?id=WywWS0aNpT8C&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=special+forces+combatives&source=web&ots=UFN0Big79D&sig=__MpmcMSGbMEDSfD5dqjLu6DMX8&hl=en#PPA12,M1
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theardri

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 12:08:23 PM »

You are aware James Webb is rather ill at the moment right and has been for at leat a year and half?
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theardri

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 12:22:18 PM »

Oh and for the record read the site (http://www.closecombatinstructors.com/tank-todd.htm)

"His school has been operating for over seventy-five years and he is currently an Army Special Forces CQB Master Chief Instructor."

Given that Cestari, the Gracies, and several others can make this claim too, why do you assume he IS special forces? I've seen the official government certificates at the gym (no I did not scan them) and they are legit, the Kiwi government takes a dim view of forgery!

So why are you on this rant? Is this a comment on Geoff, James? You pumping Blaize (who has been savaged by the wolfpac too)? Is this just you thinking out loud?

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Hock

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 12:50:36 PM »

I don't know how all this got started about Webb, Tank Todd and Loong.

I know Webb and Tank.

Tank (of New Zealand) was never in the military and teaches a combatives course which is fine with me, there and a bit in Australia,  It is based on what he was taught and yes, his eyes deeply glaze over at the mere mention of Rex and the boys. While at times Tank might appear "military related," I can't say I have ever heard him falsify anything, or false claim anything. He just works away in his world.

Jim Webb. I really hate to hear he is sick. He spent some time trying to find POWs after the Vietman War. I know and like him.  And I have met a considerable amount of SF and Green Berets through the years, retired and otherwise, and none of them had ever heard of Jim Webb. Or this course. It is a course made by Webb. Oh, sure he might have taught it once or twice, here and there, but so too have many Aikido instructors appeared before SF teaching. It is by no means some kind of official thing.

His entire old Paladin Press, Green Beret Knife Fighting video series was rescued and written by Mike Janich at the last minutes of production day. Jim had all of about 11 or so minutes or material and Janich did a great job ad-libbing the rest into a multi-tape series where Webb mostly appeared as a stuntman). I am not impressed with his teaching doctrine, so, I do see what the other WWII guys may complain about him (and the "Fabio remark" comes from his long hair he grew in the 1990s) Jim is well-meaning, really nice guy and I really hope his health improves. And Jim Webb was a Green Beret. This makes him a real-deal standout over a sea of wanna-be punks.

Wanna-bes...hmmm...which leads me to this... Blaise Loong guy. Not to be another savage of the Wolfpack crowd (who is the Wolfpack crowd?) He has tried to play this very, VERY THIN SF card for a time, unsucessfully, but not as bad as Paul Vunak tried to play the Navy SEAL card. Next, Loong tried the Viking martial arts bullshit. By all Nordic accounts this was declared complete fabrication. This kind of move, this cheap con-man plan, puts one high on my Bullshit artist/untrustable list for a very long. time. He remains there.

How did we jump off to these guys?

Hock
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 11:57:42 AM by Hock »
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theardri

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2008, 01:34:54 PM »

Hock we mentioned who the Wolfpac dislikes and went from there D'OH

Oh and as for viking martial arts .... I'd rather have Blaise than Stav!
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JimH

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2008, 02:24:54 PM »

This segment and the segment on Cestari seem to be Flame works to attack and draw people to come here and feud  because others cannot post on those sites.

The information on the Cestari section and this section have nothing to do with any converstaions going on here,both are attacks and draws.

The Two Certificates with 1st SFG ABN are just that 1st SFG issued certificates,not Special Forces across the board.

CWO Webb most likely had his friend come in and instruct members of the 1st SFG and for that this person,Mr Loong, got a Thank You/appreciation Letter and a Letter from CWO Webb Giving him cross trainer Kudos.

We Do not even know who was trained,was it SF Team Memebers or SF support members?(cooks and truck drivers)

Special Forces members are trained in H2H when assigned to SFQC qualifications course,members are ACTIVE military with the end result to be assigned to a Special Forces Group/Spec Ops group if not Army and hopefully a Team.
(if on a Team and sent on a training mission ,you teach what was taught at SFQC not what others show,demo or teach)
Training must be Uniform,not mix and create as one wants.

Various People train and get cross trained,and Thank You letters with unit ID on them.
The certificates are not issued by the JFK Warfare Center,the center which instructs SF skills across the board.
These certificates are unit,personnel specific.

The unit Certificate of Instructorship issued to Mr Todd,a civilian,is another example of a Unit based training not Special Forces wide training.

Similar to the Thank You Letters and other letters of specific instruction given by Vunak to Virginia Based,only, SEALs.

I instructed members of my Team and members of my company in martial skills I had,as did other members of the Team and Company, but that in no way makes me an SF H2H Instructor.(though many it seems would claim such title)

Look at the Black Belt magazine article and see that Mr Webb and Mr Jordan are skilled in Kung Fu,Tang Soo Do,Taekwondo and Mr Loong FMA,sorry these are not the arts used in SF training,this is training used by groups,companies and teams most times in place of physical training.

The article also gives a contact for Readers to find out about the Course,so it is not SF Specific.

Special Forces insignia or unit specific certicates does not mean SF across the board recognition.
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JimH

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2008, 08:17:30 PM »

John Joyce is the Master Chief Instructor of Combatives Concepts International. He started Martial Arts at a young age and got his first Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do at 16. He then gravitated to the Filipino Martial Arts and studied under Ted Lucay Lucay and Dan Inosanto in Southern California. In 1984 he entered the US Army and served with both the 2/75th Ranger Battalion and the 1st Special Forces Group in Ft. Lewis, WA.

"While in the 1st Special Forces Group, John worked with James Webb and helped develop and teach Special Forces Combatives."

As I thought,
CWO Webb and Sgt Joyce Started/Developed THEIR OWN Brand of Combatives ,calling it Special Forces Combatives.
(Self Made Instructors)
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Bryan Lee

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 01:52:26 AM »



  Hock, I was told James Webb was sick a few months ago, I have no specifics about that but I do know he was recently in Pattaya Thailand running a class, actually two classes.

  James Webb is certainly a Retired Chief Warrant Officer 4 and Special Forces. I do not think anyone is questioning that, I'm certainly not. The document he presented to Blaise Loong while on Active Duty and authorized to issue such documents I view as a credible document.   However when the credentials of Geoff Tank Todd came up as I stated none of the right answers appeared, in fact all the wrong answers showed up thus my spending countless hours doing research into the matter and letting a couple years roll by before I have chosen to address it.

  Most likely none of this would be of any issue outside of one simple fact. Geoff Tank Todd has set himself up as the single most qualified authority on the subject of Combatives yet he was never even in the military. James Webb for whatever reason, most likely financial was heavily involved with building up the myth that Todd and the Todd Group were somehow the missing link when it comes to the science of killing men with small arms and edged weapons.

  This book is as good a place as any to start with. I have already included one link to it but some may want to go back and read the Bios for Todd and Webb as written by Todd.




http://books.google.co.th/books?id=WywWS0aNpT8C&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=special+forces+combatives&source=web&ots=UFN0Big79D&sig=__MpmcMSGbMEDSfD5dqjLu6DMX8&hl=en#PPA27,M1
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Bryan Lee

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2008, 03:34:48 AM »

 Last year I was given the impression that Todd and Webb no longer work together. I asked that question directly and was given some kind of "To Busy" answer. It is correct that I was given a phone number to call and invited to travel to New Zealand at my expense to attend their gathering but understood Webb would not be there, then other information which discredited the inflated resume of Todd came up and I have no interest to go there as things stand. There are many chapters to this story but it needs some background information.

Please make a note of the words pedigree and linage, in Todds own words,,,,,,,,,,

http://www.schoolofselfdefence.com/todd-close-combat.htm


Combined with his training and qualifications from the modern-day experts Mängels, Webb and Jordan as well as his association with the leading international instructors of the International Close Combat Instructors Association Geoff Todd has a pedigree in military close combat and self defence unequalled by any living individual. From exponent training under Harry Baldock through to hand-to-hand combat and specialist self defence training under Charles Nelson and special operations armed and unarmed combat under Colonel Rex Applegate to passing his Special Forces Combative instructor qualification course and achieving Master Chief Instructor status, Geoff Todd has moved up through the ranks and has been trained and qualified by the world's best, past and present.

The Todd System of Close Combat is a combination of the best of the best, past and present and includes 25 years and over 100,000 hours of his full-time commitment to developing a system that is practical, effective, battle proven and a true military science. The Todd system with over 50 specialist module's, is current and correct and has been tested in the research and development phases as well as in urban and military special operations, the system has proven itself time and time again.

The Todd System has been and is continuing to be instructed to regular and elite forces to this day. Following in the direction of his former instructor's Geoff Todd realises his responsibility to the service personnel he trains and takes this responsibility most seriously. He works for the love of his trade and has a commitment to that trade and the people he trains. A heavy weight rests upon his shoulders when you consider those he trains, life or death may well depend upon his commitment to excellence. He considers himself a caretaker of the close combat doctrine at this point in time and is fully committed to the continued research development and improvement of his close combat system. His duty is not only to ensure the best in skills but the continuation of the close combat practices and teachings well into the future and as such and unselfishly he trains several assistants of the highest calibre to continue with the work that was handed on to him by his former instructors and be current assistant instructors to the Todd Group.

There is nothing Geoff considers more deadly close or final than battlefield close combat and this is his motivation and commitment to the preservation, improvement and continuation of excellence in the field of true military close combat.

He is a current Military Special Operations Master chief instructor and a director of the International Close Combat Instructors Association.




http://www.closecombatinstructors.com/tank-todd.htm

Geoff "Tank" Todd Bio


Elite Forces CQB Master Chief Instructor. Over 20 years instructing experience. Former instructors include Harry Baldock (unarmed combat instructor NZ Army WWII), Colonel Rex Applegate OSS WWII and Charles Nelson, US Marine Corps. From the previous he has learnt the skills of such CQB greats as Fairbairn, Sykes, O’Neil and Biddle and has utilised such proven material, along with his time with the modern day military CQB greats, to compile programmes for civilian, security, law enforcement and military instruction. Tank has passed his Special Forces combatives instructor selection course in Southeast Asia and is certified to instruct both the Applegate and Nelson systems. His school has been operating for over seventy-five years and he is currently an Army Special Forces CQB Master Chief Instructor. His lineage and qualifications from the evolutionary pioneers are equalled by no other military close combat instructor. His operation includes his New Zealand headquarters, and 15 depots worldwide as well as contracts to train the military elite, security forces, and close protection specialists. Annually he trains thousands of exponents and serious operators travel down-under to learn from the direct descendant of the experts and pioneers of military close combat. Following in the footsteps of his former seniors, he has developed weapons, and training equipment exclusive to close combat and tactical applications. He has published several manuals and produced videos on urban self protection, tactical control and restraint, and close combat. He has racked up an impressive 100,000 hours of close combat training and instructing.



  This information leads to a bigger question, that is exactly who is and what is the International Close Combat Instructors Association (ICCIA)? For that answer I refer to their website and their own words.

http://www.closecombatinstructors.com/close-combat-association.htm


Introduction


The International Close Combat Instructors Association (ICCIA) is made up of over 35 military instructors through to Master Chief level instructors of military armed and unarmed combat.

The ICCIA is headed by Geoff Todd (Tank), a current Special Forces CQB Master Chief Instructor of New Zealand and Lawrence Jordan, a US Special Forces Close Combat Master Chief Instructor. Tank and Lawrence have to ensure the Association is kept elite and its standards are never compromised. This means vetting all nominated potential members and remaining true to the Association’s purpose, that is to promote the military science of close combat tactical skills for all military roles, never traditional or competitive methods. There is a clear drawn line that separates us from non-military practitioners.

The ICCIA is all about winning. You select only the best people, those that are committed to being the best. You dispense with greed and glory and you encourage cross fertilization of skills and that is the directive of the association: loyalty, honor, professionalism and commitment. The association sells nothing but offers everything through an elite association of experts working all round the world with a common purpose. Allied elite individuals with a wealth of knowledge and experience. People that can recognize the difference between skills that work and those that just might get you killed. This specialist group may not resemble your military or martial arts movie stars in appearance, but you would find difficulty in locating a deadlier bunch of dirty tricks brigade practitioners anywhere on the planet. The association membership has and always will be made up of operators and operational instructors that employ or promote the battle proven, "get tough", "kill or be killed" principals of their predecessors.

This is where the association differs from the non-military practices. Where skills may well be capable of deadly results and their practitioners may well be just as capable of achieving them, but until they do, or unless they have post battle reports to evaluate their effectiveness and performance, they can not state that the methods are battle proven. It is then just a matter of speculation.

Time has seen the battle proven skills and principals being passed down from chief to chief and further developed to meet modern day requirements. This makes the current association like those that have passed before them, guardians of the doctrine at this point in time. This brings with it a huge responsibility to ensure the evolution continues to develop, as it has over the centuries, a collection of elite specialist principals and people.

The association collectively has experts in every facet of armed and unarmed close combat. Members with backgrounds that have seen them operate or instruct with history making records. Protecting Presidents, Prime Ministers and Royal Families, break mass riots, operate covertly behind enemy lines, train groups that have changed the course of history.



  What follows are again words from their own website, maybe I should say Todds own website where he maintains editorial control of all content. What I have found to be most telling is that he fails his own prerequisite to be a member of his own organization, yet he is the greatest expert on this subject matter.   




The prerequisite of a military close combat armed or unarmed combat instructor

All military close combat instructors should have a resume that includes verification of their attending and completing exponent and instructor courses. Depending on country, service, and unit, proof of qualification, rank, and status will vary, but there will always be a paper trail and a record of service in relation to instructor close combat qualifications and service.

Martial arts, combat sports or general sports qualifications records and achievements are not relevant considerations as the position and role of a military close combat instructor is to be confident and qualified in the military science of close combat.

Note included references for training military personnel are not relevant unless the individual is qualified in military close combat. All credible and legitimate instructors have a history. Without this history and means of checking their previous experience and credentials they cannot be considered as qualified military close combat instructors.

Any individual claiming to be a military close combat instructor has an obligation to provide credible verification in the form of a paper trail that can be substantiated.

The ranking system of European military close combat is structured as follows: basic exponent, advanced exponent, instructor, senior instructor, Master instructor, chief instructor, Master chief instructor. The previous qualifications and titles fall into three categories of instructing qualification which would be clearly stated on certification licensing and course reports. Reserves instructor, Regular Force Instructor, Special Forces Instructor.

Please read before completing. Military Close Combat is a military science not a sport or martial art. Please do not include any martial arts or combat sports details as they will not be considered and are not relevant.

Questionnaire: Military Close Combat

   1. Where did you complete your basic military close combat course?
   2. When did you complete your basic military close combat course?
   3. Who was the chief instructor of the course?
   4. Where did you complete your advanced military close combat course?
   5. When did you complete your advanced military close combat course?
   6. Who was the chief instructor?
   7. When did you undertake your military close combat instructor training qualification course?
   8. Where did you undertake your military close combat instructor training qualification course?
   9. Who was the chief instructor signing off your qualification?
  10. What is your current military close combat Rank and/or status?
  11. When did you achieve your current status?
  12. Who signed off your current qualification and status?
  13. What military close combat courses have you instructed on, name the service, unit, courses, conducted and the dates?
  14. State the individual modules of close combat that you are qualified and confident to instruct.

Please include with this completed questionnaire copies of all course reports, references, certification or all licences in military close combat from exponent through to your current status and qualification. Thank you.

Inquiries to the Director of Overseas Affairs
Email: Geoff "Tank" Todd - tank@toddgroup.com
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Hock

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2008, 06:31:44 AM »

In 1998 or 1999 (I think) I was asked to be part of this Military group, because I knew Webb a little bit and mostly because I had trained with South African Captain Ben Mangels (if you hunt on their instructor lists you will find him) And I admitted/they knew that Ben was a pretty important in my martial progress and "awakening." He was a major part of me recognizing the difference between martial arts and "real fighting." He was a nice guy. He had intriguing and dramatic stories. He and his did not always win and there was a sadness to his him and his stories. Never bragged. I really looked up to him.

Almost no one knows of Ben nowadays, in the USA, or a rare few in the UK still recall his name. But when I accidentally mentioned his name to the Todd/Webb/Jordan groups back then, their eyes widened. I was given a nod of approval, as like some kind of second generation instructor. Will you join this group? Colonel Jordon was in North Carolina and stayed after me with a few letters.

The annual fee was small. There was no or hardly any newsletter. And it all felt a little funny. Everyone was always "off" and "busy" teaching "special forces." I wondered where "off" was? And the group never really did anything. Just "existed" for $35 a year. Times slipped away and I never joined or became involved. Also, Ben slowly backed away from all this WWII and CQC through the years and wanted to be left alone to work in photography and do a little classical jujitsu. It is hard enough now for new people to find him in the northwest or get him to even talk about all this.

The advertising verbage quoted here was and still is quite grandiose. This grandiose talk is bit, oddly patriotic, barrell-chested, flighty and classical for the group. And it is a turn off for many of us. But it is advertising.

Now, this book cover that Tank wrote, featured on the thread, with him standing beside Rex Applegate? This is an example of this kind of hero worship. The book would easily sell better if there were some military action cover. Instead, he uses the photo of him next to his hero in the Rex's "game room/museum."  Only a few folks have been lucky enough to look around in there. My friend Jerry Van Cook is one and has great stories...Jerry was staying the night at Rex's house.

" I was looking around. Rex was tired and he told me to keep looking and he was going to bed. He left. I started thumbing and handling all the guns and souveneers. There was a cowboy gun belt form a movie star. I put it on. there was another movie star's cowboy hat. I put it on. I was like a kid. The six guns were empty and I started drawing them and clicking the trigger. Just then, Rex threw the door open and told me,' we'll be up for breakfast at about 7am.' He just stared at me wearing all this stuff with a gun in my hand. He made no expression and quietly close the door. I felt a damn fool and a little kid!"

But when I saw this cover and knew immediately that Tank Todd over-worshipped Rex Applegate. That book cover photo is a photo for your office wall, not a professional book cover. "Look at me and Rex!" ME next to Rex! Yup!Yup!" Like Elvis-worship. Few know or mention that Rex Applegate never saw any WW II combat. He collected info and ran that CQC school in Maryland. I mean, I met Rex and he is as cool as hell, but I would be hard-pressed to put him at or near the top of a military combat master list. No more than I would name Larson of the Fort Benning US Army Combatives school as some kind of...of military combat master?

Just how do you find and identify a military combat...master? Find the "quiet professional" who really did, been and does the real deal and then also teaches? I don't know how to find these people. I would never dream of, or dare to call myself one. Never. I have seen and met the real deal and I ain't them. Even my old friend Buffalo Nickels has done ugly, wet shit that would make your nails crawl. He has a crazy bone in his brain.

It would be nice if one was...at least in the military as a partial criteria?

Sorry for the rambling this morning, but the coffee was sure good.
Hock

« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 06:35:37 AM by Hock »
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theardri

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2008, 07:10:08 AM »

You were not rambling  Hock, I've issues with the book as well (it also needs to see an editor, but I digress). Training is much different at the Todd Group, it's hard and tough (well I was the oldest (32) in the class so it might be age?) with only a few hero worship stories. The exception was when Charles Nelson died.

I still don't get the point of these two threads, beyond self gratification for the originator? I will use the line that got me thrown of the Combatives yahoo group, it seems to be a lot of my Sensei can kick your sensei’s arse, going on, and well screw that for a game of soldiers.

Yes Coffee was very good this morning, and hopefully will stop me blowing the lab up!
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Bryan Lee

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Re: Special Operations Martial Arts
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2008, 03:45:30 AM »


  I want to try to remain on topic so I wont bother responding to couple jabs poked at my motivation for bothering with any of this.


  So where were we? Webb was a CW2 Special Operations Officer tasked with combatives training people within his command in the mid eighties. How many people were under his command and how many people were actually trained as a result of his being tasked with training them? I have no idea and have never seen any numbers put up. For that matter I have never seen any time lines disclosed that would tell how long it took to develop the program, was it a week, a month, a year? How long did the program exist, A year? Six months? Today, in 2008 it is common knowledge that Special Forces outsources firearms training and other specialized training. Will this continue to be their policy? I have no idea but here and now I'm interested as to what is happening today and yesterday. So again were back in 1985, Webb is looking to train his men and contacts Blaise Loong in California, a student of Dan Inosantos.

  Why did Webb choose Blaise Loong? I have no idea about that and as far as I know Loong was never Active Army but it has been eluded to that he was Operational in both the 70s and 80s in Thailand and possibly other locations.

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/celticsword/vpost?id=685471&trail=20

  Again I have no idea if Blaise Loong was a Operational Asset or not. I have never seen any real evidence he was but I have never seen anyone say he was not either. He has made some small talk about it but thats about it, I have never seen anything he has written that would pass as Military Fraud. In fact Webb would have had all kinds of access to his background before he ever chose to work with him so my best guess is he was an experienced operator and that was why he was chosen for the training program Webb developed for his group.

  If anyone has any information on that they are welcome to put it on the table. I will try to ask Blaise about it directly but that may not be possible since I have openly criticized Dan Inosanto for his relationship with Gyi. For the record I have never criticized Blaise Loong and this is not any attempt to start being a critic of his but who knows how this story will end or what information will come out?

http://www.specialoperationsmartialarts.com/


Special Operations Martial Arts

 
The SOMA Program was created in the Spring of 1991 by Master Chief Instructor Blaise Loong. Initially developed exclusively for U.S. Special Operations Forces, SOMA was soon deemed necessary for particular law enforcement assets, certain private security forces and qualified U.S. citizens.
 
In February 1985 Blaise Loong was one of three original instructors assigned to develop the U.S. Army's Special Forces Combatives Courses (SFCC). Under the auspices of the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and its Commanding Officer David Baratto, Blaise, alongside his two compatriots -- John Joyce and James Webb -- helped to put together a curriculum of devastating proportion.
 
There are three essential components that make up SOMA.
 
   1. CQT (close quarter termination)
   2. Sentry Neutralizations
   3. Improvised Weapons
 
CQT training focuses on specific offensive strategies utilizing a variety of weapons systems: empty-hands, knife, firearm.
 
Sentry neutralization techniques include empty-hands, knife, garrote, suppressed weapons (firearm \ crossbow).
 
Improvised weapons instruction concentrates on the primitive -- "sticks and stones" technology.




http://boneheadllc.com/Testimonials.html


This is John Joyce, friend from long ago. I happened across your web site and was reading the discussion board highlights. I wanted to offer myself to testify in Blaise's behalf on his involvement in the development of the 1st Special Forces Group Combatives Course. You can see my signature on Blaise's diploma. James Webb and our company commander Major Matthew Williams III (P) were the other two signers.

I even have original pictures from this course that I will give you if you can contact me.

I know there are many claiming to be this or that, but I would like to add that Blaise was instrumental in helping bring about what has become the "original" Special Forces Combatives. He was one of the original three instructors who started this program in 1985. His training methods, instruction in bladework and stick fighting and many other combative attributes were incorporated and are still in use today. Prior to this combatives had not been formally trained to Special Forces soldiers in almost 20 years.

I left the military many years ago and so did the other original instructors. Many are still teaching in private capacities. One thing I would like to add about all these other Special Forces Combatives trainers. Instructors only stay with a unit for a period of about three years. Training is left to the discretion of the unit commander. Some were pro martial arts / combatives training and others were not. Needless to say, in the last 20 years there have been numerous other Special Forces Combatives training programs but I feel that our program offered the best training possible.

Now there is a formal Combatives School run by the US Army. Having read the description of the course I was very disappointed to see that they missed the mark completely. They use the Gracie method and adopted it so Combatives can now be a sport. At least they are doing something, but I would have liked to see more combative elements mixed in.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 03:51:01 AM by Bryan Lee »
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