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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • June 25, 2018, 09:56:49 AM
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Author Topic: MMA  (Read 4267 times)

Bryant

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MMA
« on: April 25, 2008, 11:33:51 AM »

Many people I speak with who are not martial artist
but enjoy MMA think that what they are seeing is real fighting (as in all out anything goes)
as oppossed to combat sport
can someone who knows a lot about MMA
speak on what the rules are in MMA
and how some MMA tactics may not be very good street tactics

-B.

btw
I think it's a great sport
although the image could use some polish
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Benjamin Liu

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Re: MMA
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 01:20:31 PM »

IMO the issue isn't so much about the rules but the mindset.  I'm not saying they are not aggressive or determined to win, they are.  What I'm talking about is the tendancy to apply what is real in MMA to what is real in real life.  This is a bigger issue since it is much harder to see than one simply following rules and then deciding not to follow them. 

I did a semester of MMA in college and later on some of my training parnters were local competitiors.  They were tough, in shape, aggressive, skilled, etc. but had what I'd call serious holes in their awareness.  A big one was weapons.  Even when doing knife training, there was a tendancy to try for a takedown or submission without dealing with the knife first, and to ignore any cuts or stabs, acting as if the rubber knife simulating a real one was actually simulating a rubber knife.  Yes, that would work with a rubber knife but not a real one.  :D  Obviously the guys who did this knew it was supposed to be a real knife and they would not be attacked by a guy with a rubber knife in the real world  :D , but there was something about their mindset that caused them to just treat it as a rubber knife and ignore all strikes (both in not even trying to avoid a cut and acting as if a cut, even a fatal one, wouldn't do anything to them) because rubber doesn't cut.

This is a similar issue to improperly-trained traditional martial artists only knowing how to deal with attacks from their school and paintball players intentionally or unintentionally adapting their tactics to the nature of paintball guns when such tactics would be suicide with real guns.

Personally, IMO someone could train in almost any art and still be effective in self-defense if they learn awareness and take their CQC training into their own hands regardless of what their class does.  There is no reason someone can't take MMA and also learn CQC and self-defense.
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whitewolf

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Re: MMA
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 06:31:24 PM »

Ben and all-read this and thought about MMA  a  little-when I had my school in Tn I shared the school with a MMA who   had at that time 64 octagon fights and had won  most of them-he was excellent fighter in the ring-when we discussed street tactrics he did not really have a clue about defense against weapons-his mind set was winning in the ring and for his students to  win in the ring-we did a lot of  talking and some work on weapons but his MMA training did not help at  all in that field-he held classes for some of the soldiers and he taught "ground" fighting tactics" -hopfully he has done some training in self defense over the past few years-guess what i  am saying is that MMA is good for basics but in order to be a street fighter type one has to  train in street tactics-learning how to  get a opponent in to a arm  bar laying on the concrete is opening one up to being hurt or  worse-as the readers on the forum here who  have  had more experience than me have  stated before -stay off the ground at all possible and have a mind set to win the confortation quickly and move on-MMA will not hurt but one has to  add to the training so they can  face problems outside the ring. After reaading this over last question is havent we gone over this before? Doesnt matter good to  review this subject so we dont forget where we are-stay  safe  whitewolf (el  lobo  blanco)
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jmech

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Re: MMA
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 08:32:58 PM »

The issue with MMA is not the techniques-all of the techniques in MMA are found in other martial arts.  The main issue is a lack of training in appropriate levels of force in non-sport situations, especially in legal/liability issues.  In MMA, both participants are mutual combatants and agree to fight and assume certain risks involved.  In a non-sport situation, in most states, the victim can only use the amount of force necessary to stop the assault, get away, etc.  Once the victim goes beyond that point, they may end up becoming an aggressor and be subject to criminal charges and potential liability exposure.  For example, bad guy gets in the face of good guy, and throws a punch at good guy.  good guy blocks the punch, performs a double leg takedown, and gets in the mount position.  We are okay to this point, but if good guy goes into ground and pound until badguy goes out, assuming no other mitigating circumstances, good guy may be in some trouble.

another similar issue surrounds the use of strangle holds.  In some states, the use of strangulation holds may be considered deadly force, or otherwise substantially more severe than simple punches.  So if good guy blocks badguy's punch and puts him in a rear naked choke, good guy's choice of technique may not be viewed as appropriate by the District Attorney or twelve jurors who have never been in a fight in their lives.  This may also open the door for bad guy to have friends jump in or pull a weapon and get away with it legally using the "I had to, he was choking me to death" argument.

Finally (cuz this is just getting too d**m long...), for those who do fight in MMA and get into a self defense situation, if the badguy sues, guess what his attorney is going to show the jurors when he is trying to convince them you beat his client sensless for no good reason?  They will bring in any and all videos they can find of your fights to show how brutal you are, and if you could do that to another trained fighter, imagine what he could do to my client, ladies and gentleman of the jury.  This will be twice as bad if you have a brutal sounding nickname like "the killer hatchet man" or something.

Hope this helps and didn't bore anyone to death...

Joe
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JimH

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Re: MMA
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 09:29:18 PM »

MMA provides all the Tools to fight with,in and out of the ring.
The difference between Sport and Self Defense comes down to mindset.
The Mindset of Sport is to Try to Win by doing everything possible within the rules to Win.
The Mindset of Self Defense is to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING ,without limitations of Rules,to SURVIVE and Go Home .

The street does not allow us to know the attacker,as the opponent is known in the sport.
The street does not allow for warm up and mental preparation for a spicific opponent.
The street does not mean the opponent will be unarmed.
The street does not mean both fighters ,or more,are of equal size,weight and skills level.
The street does not allow for more than one attacker to fight you one at a time.
The street does not make the tap a reason to stop fighting.
The street does not provide an out when the crap hits the fan and things go South for us.
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Milldog1776

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Re: MMA
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 09:35:25 PM »

This dead horse has been beaten in at least 12 different threads on this forum.

Do a keyword search, and call it a day.
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whitewolf

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Re: MMA
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 09:46:48 PM »

Keith-i agree it  has been brought up  before-only thing i say is even though old we should always remind our selves on what we are practising  and why we are practising-for example-the PO  who takes a self defense class (5 years ago) and never practisies or is reminded again-now it is 3am and he/she is facing a preditor for the first time and me preditor is 4  feet away and charges at them-Oh shit*******-see what i  mean-i for one will review all posts concerning life on the street . I understand you Keith but thats my take on it. I guess i  could say its not like learning to ride a bike once you learn you never forget-what we are into is a  mind set (like JimH/Hock/Nick/Dawg etc talk about)-there is no second chance-you win or lose or snooze (knockout)-  take  care  stay  safe and  ;D ;D-whitewolf (el  lobo  blanco)
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jpmbujutsu

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Re: MMA
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2008, 05:02:35 AM »

Amen. Keith Amen!
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whitewolf

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Re: MMA
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2008, 05:30:12 AM »

Guess i am in the minority-oh well-i still will review,talk,practise,the real deal -must be my age-i am the old school-in addition while continually review latest information on this forum and on the webb-i see a continuous discussion and up dates on what we are talking about  here-the 8th of May I travel to Athens to train for 5 days with one of  the chief instructors for the Greek military-ill let you guys know if he reviews the latest areas we talked about here-some of the best advise i ever got was never stop practising something-that may save your butt some day-guess i am preaching again-oh well thats what a old retired SgtMaj does-just stuff me in a corner-ill be ok-whitewolf (el  lobo blanco)
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: MMA
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2008, 07:58:39 AM »

It's cool sport- just watch it with that in mind and enjoy!

Out

Joe
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Bryan Lee

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Re: MMA
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2008, 09:48:50 AM »

This dead horse has been beaten in at least 12 different threads on this forum.

Do a keyword search, and call it a day.
 

You got that right!
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