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Author Topic: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures  (Read 1876 times)

WTAC

  • Aaron Warren
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Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« on: May 14, 2008, 11:46:42 PM »

Chaos in the courtroom

Michael Fisher listened without visible emotion as a judge Monday afternoon found him guilty of murdering his wife and son.

But then Fisher, 43, stood, turned and stepped toward Deputy Scott Eby, punching the officer in the left side of the face and then, using both hands, attempted to take Eby's semi-automatic handgun from its holster.

Links below also show photos of the actual struggle for the deputy's gun.

http://tinyurl.com/4r4kvz

http://tinyurl.com/5y7ozh
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 12:02:06 AM by WTAC »
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Karl

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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 02:52:12 AM »

Yes, saw that on channel 7 TV, Sydney.
Thought that the other deputies where pretty slow to respond.
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WTAC

  • Aaron Warren
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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008, 05:11:29 AM »

When someones trying to take your weapon, I don't think you can respond fast enough.
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Ed Stowers

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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2008, 02:58:26 PM »

While it's difficult to second-guess these things if you weren't there--and having the hindsight of a photo helps--the first picture is a poster child for what not to do in gun retention situation.  Just going from the photo--without the other factors--you can see the officer has both of his hands into the suspect trying to restrain him against a wall, while the suspect has BOTH hands on the officer's gun.  The officer is doing nothing to try and stop this.  To me, that indicates a training problem.  The officer's right hand should be on his gun, pushing it down into the holster to prevent the suspect from pulling it out.  Preventing a disarm in this situation is a higher priority than restraining the convict in courtroom.  It seems the officer was relying purely on his retention holster to keep the weapon in place while he wrestled with the convict.  Fortunately, the holster retained it enough until others tased him, so this time it worked.  But if I was in the officer's department, this one would be cause for a serious debrief and a lot of remedial training.

These things happen very fast, so I'm not in total judgment of this thing, just going from the still photos, but in all of my retention training maintaining control of weapon was the first priority.  A retention holster will not prevent a suspect from getting your weapon, only delay him or her a bit.  The officer could shove the convict with his left shoulder and arm while using his right to press that gun down so the bad guy couldn't pull it out.  That first photo disturbs me.  The suspect is only a second from getting this officer's gun and the officer's hands are in the wrong place to prevent it.

It does make me think they got complacent here.  I mean, you have a murder suspect being convicted of shooting his own wife and son.  What does he have to lose by going for an officer's gun?  At worst he can force an SBC situation (suicide by cop); at best (from his POV) he could shoot several people before being subdued.  While this is a problem with any suspect, you would think they'd be especially watchful of it around a murder suspect and think that, you know, if he's going down for life or the big "DP" that he might just try that. 

Now I realize I am second guessing and just going from the photo without knowing the particulars of how many officers were there or how far away or whatever...but that first photo is pretty indicative that he is not trying to retain the weapon at that point.  This could have turned out very nasty.  Everyone was very, very lucky.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 03:03:45 PM by Ed Stowers »
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michael

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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2008, 12:17:44 AM »

Often, court officers are comprised of the sick, lame or lazy. They are usually not the creme of the crop. I have seen some pretty old and out of shape officers working in about every court I have ever been in. I remember being off-duty once in plain clothes when a prisoner made an escape attempt from court. The court officer looked to be in his 70's, and did not even know what happened until it was over. If not for me and another officer who was with me, he would have escaped. He just as easily could have attacked and injured or killed the old guy.

The courtroom is no place for complacency.
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**To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one. It is rather an endless struggle that will go on to the very last moment of our lives. Nobody is born a warrior, in exactly the same way that nobody is born an average man. We make ourselves into one or the other.** Carlos Castaneda

whitewolf

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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2008, 03:33:39 AM »

Holy  moly  batman---no punches no knees no palms no clawing eyes no elbows-no hand to  pistol -restraining ??-damm-if that preditor got the hand gun out -someone would  have gone to the morque-while we are at it-possibly 2 officers should have been closer not one-reolizing i  was not there and only monday  morning quarterbacking this it still is  scary-this is just another incident where training for the PO is needed-glad it all turned out  ok--witewolf (el  lobo blanco)
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arnold

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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 04:14:11 AM »

Why was a dirtbag being convicted of 2 counts of murder not shackled in the courtroom? I saw the video and he didn't even have cuffs on. Oh but the bleeding heart liberal dipsticks would have cried that his right as a human being were being violated. Horseshit! What about the rights of his dead wife and kid.
When they finally zap this pile of shit, and it will take a few years with appeals and such, I will be happy to supply the razor wire to tie around his neck and throw him off the Mobil Oil Pegasus horse in downtown Dallas. Then after he makes contact with the pavement, and since his head has been removed by the razor wire, we shoot the head twice and the body twice, just for good measure.
Your kind and loving Superhero of a guy....
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you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

whitewolf

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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 12:29:45 PM »

Arnold-i agree shackles should have  been placed on him-i bet there is  some regulation that prevents a prisoner being shackled in that state-i bet the same applies in the states mental  institutions also. what a world we live in-WF (ELB)
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shastana

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Re: Gun Grab attempt on Deputy-with pictures
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2008, 12:30:10 AM »

The photos are interesting to study.  The counter to disarm is just plain stupid, but it kind of worked because it somewhat immobilized the dumbass.  The bear hug and drive kept the guy off balance and the other officers did work this guy right into a folded position to zap him in the sides and ass.

Kinda intersting that it worked without bloodshed.

And they should've shackled this guy, double family murder is damn cold hearted.  Or, the POs could've kept their quick draw stances locked and ready.  Or, stay back enough to be able to respond...

Dang close!
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