The main thrust of the question by PaulGappyNorris?
I have not been following this thread much.
But...are you really talking about knife versus knife duels here?
And asking for veterans of knife versus knife duels?
As Nick said, I imagine millions carry knives worldwide, gangs or otherwise.
Of knife crimes however, I have questions...
Are they knife-verus-knife duels? Reposte! Block! Counter-attack. Aha! Slash! Score.
I think the clock-time is a consideration in what is the duel.
Are they mixed weapons? (usually)
Are they multiple people, mixed weapons?
Are they unarmed versus the knife attacks? (very usually and my guess - the highest)
Are they hit football style attack, or is there a stand-off...duel?
To guess knife crime in America, UK and civilized places, the real answer to that question of knife crime proliferation is an equation...
a) Total population and population by age and
b) total violent crime and violent crime with knives,
c) and knives confiscated by police during arrests.
d) and some other intangables you could count on...
Of which, I don't have a numerical answer, but if you live Johnson City with 50,000 people and at the end of the year you have 60 knife attack reports from hospitals, that means that a whopping 49,960 people were not attacked by knives. Something no one ever thinks about. A good top-ten lesson would not to get drunk down in barrio and play poker where you and eveyone else have switchblades, dope and whiskey. THAT is the next highest danger precentage. Substract stupidity from the ranks and the odds of knife survival increase in your city.
The next question is of those 60 attacks, how many were actual knife vs knife duels? Mixed weapons? Unarmed vs the knife? Or done in a football, rugby charge manner, not a stand-off duel. In the big picture...how do we know to declare an epidemic of knife-vs-knife dueling?
Which of course doesn't mean you shouldn't train all aspects of knife fighting, just prioritize the categories better? And sweet Jesus do some knife ground fighting!
I recall while I was living in Georgia, there was a basketball sports event there and professional football player got into a knife versus knife fight - with handy steak knives- in a franchise Atlanta restaurant, you know like...Applebees. It lasted about 12 seconds and some slashes were exchanged. That made the national news, but...that very same night in another restaurant in Atlanta, the local news two college football players had a knife fight duel (unkown about the knives). It was broken up quickly but both guys exchanges some minor slashes. Two knife...duels.
About 6 months ago I took a call from an angry guy who declared,
"I am sick of all these knife courses! They ain't real! I want the real-deal stuff. That is why I am calling you! I want the very best knife dueling DVD you have!"
I had to tell him, "Bubba, you are already asking the wrong question. A dueling question. If you are in a knife fight and you don't have a lamp or a chair in your other hand? or something! You are already screwing up."
Think of the six common fight crashing/stopping spots and points, as fighters charge in and then draw any weapons
1) stopped at the stand-off showdown ( the most common, classic dueling arena)
2) stopped at the hands - duel? maybe...
3) stopped at the forearms - a duel? maybe...
4) stopped at the shoulders - awfully close!
5) stopped bear hugs/clinches - very close for dueling...
6) stopped on the ground - have to get up to finish the duel.
Knives can and have been drawn in all six of these encounters. At times some may back away into a dueling range. At least half are not conducive to the...reposte! Slash. Block AHA! Lunge! Dueling.
I think that knife courses of today teach too much knife dueling, in leau of:
a) situational awareness,
b) knife in amongst mixed weapons, multiple people
c) unarmed vs knife
d) using support weapons, handy stuff and strikes and kicks
e) knife ground fighting
f) orderly retreat/escape training
Now, raise your hands out there. Who teaches all those regurlarly or do you really spend most of your time playing duel tag with rubber knives? Or! doing complicated those little knife vs knife drill ditties we see so often from down ol' Philippines way? The kind of things you can only do to a handicapped, or near-dead, standing man.
I think in a knife fight - should it be a clean, stand-off, knife versus knife, people trained in the muscle memory of these courses will not take advantage of non-duel options. Its muscle memory from training. I have done it myself, while wearing a gun and confronted by a box cutter. Too much hand-to-hand training for a period of time right before this confrontation. I "trained away" my gun draw.
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So to get back to main thrust of the question by PaulGappyNorris.
I have not been following this thread much.
But...are you really talking about knife versus knife duels here?
And asking for veterans of knife versus knife duels?
I am not one. I have been empty-handed versus a knife, and gun versus knife. In very situational encounters as a cop.
I too would love to hear from more civilians who went knife to-knife in a prolonged duel an encounter that can be classified as a duel. (I have worked a few duel cases as a detective, heard of a few other duel cases like the football players I mentioned, but they are a minority for me. Most of the knife cases I've worked - hundreds by the way- and some have been murders - have not been a knife vs knife duel. Some, not most. I have told of a few of them in my blogs.)
Hock
