Important Links

Hock's Blog

Hock's Downloads

CQC-Facebook

Hock's Facebook

Hock's Seminars

Hock's Shopsite

Hock's Web Page


New Products

Combat Kicks VID

Critical Contact VID

Death Grip of Knife VID

Dominant/Counter VID

First Contact VID

Impact Weapons Book

Knife Book

The Other Hand VID


Lauric Enterprises, Inc.
1314 W. McDermott
Ste 106-811
Allen, TX 75013
972-390-1777

 

 

 


W. Hock Hochheim's

           Combat Centric

Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • July 18, 2018, 06:11:40 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Dissimilar training?  (Read 1980 times)

PaulGappyNorris

  • Level 2
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Dissimilar training?
« on: October 09, 2008, 12:28:09 AM »

How many of you really practice some dissimilar training exercises. ie. reaction/defense against a non-compliant, non-stylised, chaotic attack, with a training partner? It's all too easy to fall into the 'comfort zone' of like-against-like in the gym. Even some of the Padded Man courses seem a little lame.

The vast majority of M.arts/combat groups seem to fall into the 'duelling' type of sparring/drill sets -me included on occasions :-\.  I recognise that there are some
benefits in these patterns of sparring/defence drills, but in the bigger picture doesn't it give a completely false sense of confidence?

Logged

grlaun

  • Rawhide
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 1292
  • Jeff 'Rawhide' Laun
Re: Dissimilar training?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 06:48:18 AM »

Do you mean like wrestler v. kicker?  Stick v. boxer?  The question is unclear.
Logged
Cheat in Beginning - Cheat in the Middle - Cheat in the End
Official Evil Ninja - 2008
Texas Peace Officer 8/2009
"You're making the wrong assumption that a Marine by himself is outnumbered"
Gen Peter Pace, 28Jul06
"You tell that muthaf**ka, he owes me money!"

PaulGappyNorris

  • Level 2
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: Dissimilar training?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 07:13:20 AM »

Unclear? Sorry, let me try and re-phrase  ???

Do you try to practice your combat skills against a training partner who is non-compliant (doesn't go along with your efforts) and, which is non-stylised  ( therefore chaotic and unpredictable- not rigid in style or form)  ie. more like 'the real thing'.

It's not like wrestler v kicker or stick v boxer.
Logged

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Dissimilar training?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 07:50:31 AM »

In classes there is a difference between non-complaince/pressure-testing training and combat scenario training. They are seperate sections of class.

Non-comp is a skill drill where the training partner experiments with gradual levels of non-complainance. Here is when the trainee learns to support the move with painful strikes, kicks, whatever. A skill developing drill.

Success in the big-picture, combat scenario comes later, after learning this and other concepts.

Too many people think that non-complaince/pressure testing must be in all combat scenarios. (lots of the younger scene martial arts gurus believed this and convinced other young martial arts kids of this "we-test-everything-tough-guy" approach. But I think that many of them now realize what I am saying...kids!)  (and I mean teens and 20s, maybe unproperly trained early 30s?)

Remember acting must be inside all this non-compliant training.

If you simulate a stick strike to the head of your partner in a combat scenario, if your non-compliant partner does not act - a least a little bit - conservatively - like you cracked his head, then you are not training for reality. The whole point of pressure testing is to learn the when and wear, support tactics to make a designated move work or not. Or bail? It is not to toss out a tactic and, "we pressure-tested this in class. No one can make it work. We don't do it." You would be surprised what practical and handy things 20 year-olds will throw out by mis-understanding the "pressure test."

Take that down to head punch, a groin kick, eye attack, whatever. If the training partner DOESN'T act a little bit, you don't see what really happens and your program becomes unreal!

And I tell you what I see happens then with these kids 90% of the time. It turns into a wrestling match on the ground, with either person unable to REALLY do what would REALLy stop the wrestling match. I think we have talked somewhere here before about the down-side of this so-called and mis-understood, mis-applied "pressure-testing" every tactic, thing.

His comment...
"we pressure test everything! Non-complaince! I can't get that armbar to work...for real!"

My answer...
"Oh? did you break his nose and his third right rib first? Then try the armbar?"

Thats my definition of pressure testing. And it can't be done weekly in schools and classes. A part of, some level of, acting is mandatory in reality fighting training. Always has been.

Non-comp/pressure testing need to be corraled into a skill developing drill category and section in class to study the when and wheres of things like support strikes, or a study versus adrenilized strength. That kind of thing.

Combat scenarios need to be combat scenarios with some level of acting. There is an art and sophisticated understanding and martial arts maturity to training the combat scenario properly.

Hock

PaulGappyNorris

  • Level 2
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: Dissimilar training?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2008, 08:10:26 AM »

So yours is a yes then Hock!  ;)

I'm all for the 'acting along' bit, and agree it's an essential part of training. However, the least amount of prearranged, stylised, like-for-like drill work etc., the better it leans toward preparedness for a chaotic situation IMHO.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 09:06:06 AM by PaulGappyNorris »
Logged

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Dissimilar training?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 08:22:37 AM »

The combat scenario is king! The end result, end product of training.

But proper training involves many graduated levels of skill development, done in proper perspective and allotments.

Any one of those tools of skill development, once overdone, or excised and reviewed by outside critics can easily be the subject of ridicule and criticism.

Hock

whitewolf

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4695
Re: Dissimilar training?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 08:44:57 AM »

Hock-really this is one of the more excellent question brought up  lately-I agree non compliant partners helps the attacked respond with "something" or be be brough down quickly

Some of the best i have seen is the Dog brothers sanarios where the opponents face off and using sticks go to it-there is no you do this and ill do  that-after their training they really go to  it all the way to the ground

I do like some of the drills where one has a protective suit on and the victim has to  keep on fighting

I also think that the KM drills where a student is surrounded by 4-5-6  attackers and as they close in he has to  defend

Another drill that seems to help especially with students that come for self defense training a few nights  a week is the following

1-they sit back to  back at the signal they have to turn and try to  pin the other without getting up-(it seems to  build confidence in newer and older students)

2-Just plain boxing (after training in punching-bobbing weaving slipping)-that is when the
two are alone in the ring and they see it them against the world  (more or less)

just some thoughts from a old whitewolf ;D ;D ;D
Logged
 

Download