Important Links

Hock's Blog

Hock's Downloads

CQC-Facebook

Hock's Facebook

Hock's Seminars

Hock's Shopsite

Hock's Web Page


New Products

Combat Kicks VID

Critical Contact VID

Death Grip of Knife VID

Dominant/Counter VID

First Contact VID

Impact Weapons Book

Knife Book

The Other Hand VID


Lauric Enterprises, Inc.
1314 W. McDermott
Ste 106-811
Allen, TX 75013
972-390-1777

 

 

 


W. Hock Hochheim's

           Combat Centric

Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • January 19, 2018, 11:21:00 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Tortal and Gaje?  (Read 6329 times)

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Tortal and Gaje?
« on: July 15, 2008, 10:27:18 AM »

Grand Tuhon Nene Tortal of Dekiti Tirsia Siradas
Grand Tuhona leo Gejae of Peki Tersa

Does anyone know exaclt whet there relationship is these days of the year 2008?

Interested in...

a) a little history
b) current status

Thanks,
Hock

sifu007

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • elite combatives europe
Re: Tortal and Gaje?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2008, 10:44:36 AM »

Hello Hock, Chris from Belgium here. Just found this about this topic :

Pekiti-Tirsia ( Original Tortal Family System)

I am requested by those who knew Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System and had practiced the system for many years. I am requested to tell the real truth about Pekiti-Tirsia and the manufactured Dekiti-Tirsia . the truth is the real Pekiti-Tirsia not the politics about Pekiti-Tirsia and the Dekiti-Tirsia.

My Grandfather , the late Grandmaster Conrado B. Tortal is the Supreme Grandmaster of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System originally family developed system in Negros Occidental. My Grandfather had four brothers namely  Balbino Tortal , Francisco Tortal, Teodorico Tortal and Qurino Tortal who died at the ealry age. But the three brothers , namely Balbino , Teodorico and Francisco were able to reach the full manhood got married and had family. They were residing in the town of Talisay , Negros Occidental very close to the city of Bacolod. Before the 2nd World War, the Tortal family were intact with a very close net relationship based in the cultural traditions of family unit in a community. My Grandfather Conrado B. Tortal being the head of the clan managed to be respected by the big landowners of the big tract of land in Talisay that by force of circumstances he became the Administrator of the Haciendas. The brothers were then supported of his success and they were working as part of the Administration of GRandmaster Conrado B. Tortal. Balbino B. Tortal had several children namely Samuel Tortal, Segundito Tortal ,Jerson Tortal, Ditay Tortal and Melicio Tortal , the father of Rommel Tortal my second in Command in the Pekiti-Tirsia system and others were female daughters.

The late Grandmaster Conrado B. Tortal had only one daughter in the name of Feliza Garcia Tortal married to leopoldo P. Gaje, Snr. had twin kids , namley Leopoldo Tortal Gaje, jr and Luzviminda Tortal Gaje. One week old Luzviminda died. Survived by leopoldo Tortal Gaje, jr.

The other brother Francisco Tortal had two sons namely Juanito  C.Tortal and Conrado C Tortal naming him to carry on the name Conrado B. Tortal a legend in the family.

Teodorico Tortal had several boys namely , Teodorico Tortal Jr. Segundito Tortal, Quirino Tortal naming the other brother that died at early age, Edd ie Tortal and Danilo Tortal.

The war in 1942 ( Japanese invasion of the Philippines with more than 200,000 Japanese distributed in many Islands made the Japanese won against the Americans in the Battle of Bataan and Corrigidor, the Filipinos continued their arm struggle by hding in the mountains and attacked the japanese by Guerilla tactics. Negros Island is one of the Islands that was closely occupied by the Japanese.

Due to rural Japanese campaign in almost every town in  Negros, The late Balbino B. Tortal together with other filipinos were caught by the Japanese patrols and all of them were lined up for firing squad but the action of Balbino P. Tortal to survived and his knowledge in Pekiti-Tirsia he prepared himself to fight the Japanese . Instead to be shot the Japanese soldiers changed their mind instead  of shooting not to be heard  by the neighboring  fiipino guerillas of the explosion, instead the use the bayonets. So this is the opportunity that Balbino Tortal was able to disengaged the rifle with a Bayonet and used it in return to the Japanese killing three of them but due to the hunger and  having a limited strength , Balbino while his back was turned , the Japanese soldier use the butt of the rifle hitting him on the back of the head that he fell down and that was the end of his fight with the Japanese.

All the children of Balbino Tortal were then very young and training them was not possible since during the war , all what has been attended is how to eat and where to hide against the Japanese. At this juncture the family of Balbino were orphan and it was his eldest brother Grandmaster Conrado B. Tortal who took care of the family for food and other needs .

Since Grandmaster Conrado b. Tortal with a short cut name Ka Dadoy moved to farther place south of Bacolod City in 1944 to the barrior called Isio here he bought 10 hectacres of land as residence and another 100 hectares for farmlands.

There I grew up with my Grandfather in Isio and had the benefit of the training at the most crucial time just after the war and continued till I was in my matured years.

The truth is no other else among the family had training with Pekiti-Tirsia Kali except me as the only inheritor of the system. The secret of the system boldly guarded by my grandfather was the main theme of his preservation-Guard the Secret.

So as to the claim that Dekiti-Tirsia as a part of the Tortal family system is a hoax. It was a manufactured system to generate income riding in the name of Pekiti-Tirsia. Nene Tortal was in the Supreme Martial Arts with the combination of Karate and Arnis. It was when I was in the US that I encouraged him to bring the name of the Tortal family to the Martial Arts community so that when the foreigner comes to Negros at least he has the chance to be recognized as the Tortal family./The truth is there was no Dekiti-Tirsia. All what has been written in the web site about Dekiti-Tirsia were all copied in my writings under the Pekiti-Tirsia. Nene Tortal had been joining me in my seminars because I wanted him to learn the original Pekiti-Tirsia until in the book of Sulite he claimed under the heading Pekiti-Tirsia . Then suddenly he had a title Dekiti-Tirsia.

So the reason I am explaining this because I have been bothered by the people who are die hard FMA to know the truth . It is my responsibility to tell the real truth.,I am not going to hide what is a lie and allows people to believe it is the truth. The is the reason that separates us with Nene Tortal , the principle of Truth.

So if you believe what is the truth then stay with Pekiti-Tirsia but if you believe in the Dekiti-Tirsia then stick to it. What counts most is the stick is round and the blade is flat make your choice. It is not the system  but how dip the blade can work on by the kilos. To make a comparative analysis, you study with Nene Tortal and try what you learn against pekiti-Tirsia if it works ,Dekiti-Tirsia is your choice but if it doen't work then go somewhere else maybe  go  and kiss FMA good by..

This was copied from a site on the net of pekiti tirsia.
Logged

sifu007

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • elite combatives europe
Re: Tortal and Gaje?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 10:48:52 AM »

This second message is one of Guro Dave Gold from lameco who posted this on another forum :

Hello there, I hope that all is well with you. Here`s the deal as I understand it from the mouths of both Tuhon Leo Tortal Gaje and Tuhon Jerson "Nene" Tortal concerning their family system. Kali Pekiti-Tirsia was officially founded in 1897 by Grand Master Conrado B. Tortal on the Island of Visayas in the Philippines. It was always classified as a "Close Quartering" fighting system placing alot of attention on footwork and close quarter combative methodology for aggressively taking ones opponent out quickly.

GM Conrado B. Tortal was the uncle of "Nene" Tortal and the Grandfather of Leo T. Gaje. Both learned the system from GM Conrado at an early age and early on the word was that both had inherited Kali Pekiti-Tirsia on the founders passing. For the most part for many years alot of people accused Tuhon "Nene" Tortal of living in the shadow of Tuhon Leo T. Gaje. As every time that there was a public demonstration of the system it was always Tuhon "Nene" introducing Tuhon Leo to demonstrate and answer questions of everyone concerning the system. All the while Tuhon "Nene" would sit, observe and assist whenever requested by Tuhon Leo Gaje. It was clear that publically Tuhon Leo Gaje was the driving force behind propagating Kali Pekiti-Tirsia to the world.

Not that Tuhon "Nene" Tortal was incapable as he has been given very high compliments by many in the know. Many of those compliments were from my Instructor the late Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite, he always was very impressed with Tuhon "Nene" Tortals` ability to speak with his movements and not with his mouth. PG Sulite would often compliment Tuhon "Nene" on his knife work among other areas of expertise.

There is no way that you could ever accuse Tuhon "Nene" of moving like Tuhon Gaje, or vice-versa. They both translated the knowledge that they were given by GM Conrado differently and chose to demonstrate it somewhat differently according to natural talents that each possessed. Tuhon Leo is very impressive to watch and moves with flamboyant effect while Tuhon "Nene" moves more directly to the point and thereby not getting caught up in the flash factor of sorts. Tuhon "Nene" is by nature a very quiet man but don`t let his silence fool you as when he needs to get serious he is quite capable of devouring his opponent. Whereas some say that Tuhon Gaje has been given "Anting-anting" for the ability to speak. Some would say that he has a silver tongue and I would have to agree with this as when he speaks his words bring to life the definition of what it is that he is trying to convey. But as well Tuhon Leo Gaje can more than back up anything that he says on a field of battle. Although both take somewhat different approaches each is more than capable in their own unique ways.

What does this all have to do with Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas you ask? Well before 1996 I had never heard of this system and even when speaking with Tuhon "Nene" Tortal in Mambukal, Philippines in February of 1996 he would still refer to his family system as Kali Pekiti-Tirsia. I don`t want to get into the politics of things so I will just say that a few months later in the summer of 1996 an issue over money came up and because of it both Tuhon "Nene" Tortal and Tuhon Leo T. Gaje were pushed apart from one another and in anger each went their own way.

Shortly after this I began hearing for the first time of Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas and it envoked alot of accusations to fly between the two Pekiti-Tirsia Tuhons which inevitably wedged a greater division between the two. Basically Tuhon "Nene" Tortal started teaching Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas and at that time when asked what it was he stated that it was the same system that was founded and taught to him by GM Conrado B. Tortal (Kali Pekiti-Tirsia) but as it was called from a different dialect in his area of Visayas.

So I walked away from all of this as Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas being not a different system than that of Kali Pekiti-Tirsia but actually the two were one in the same with the only difference being the dialect spoken and how each of the words spoken define "Close Quartering Fighting" in those dialects. To Tuhon Leo Gaje it is Kali Pekiti-Tirsia and to Tuhon "Nene" Tortal it is Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas. But each teach the same system that was taught to both Tuhon "Nene" Tortal and his nephew Tuhon Leo T. Gaje from the founder of that system being GM Conrado B. Tortal.

Is Kali Pekiti-Tirsia different than Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas? Yes, Just as different as is Tuhon "Nene" Tortal from his nephew Tuhon Leo T. Gaje. As each translated the knowledge from the founder a little differently. You will see alot of similarity between the two (systems / Tuhons) as well some things will be quite different with emphasis being placed on different things in accordance with what each of the two Tuhons dictate as being most important to them individually. I feel that if you want to get the complete picture of Kali Pekiti-Tirsia and Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas alike you need to train under each of the two Tuhons. Not that any one is superior over the other but more so that each walked away from the founder with a different perspective of that system and what it represents.

This has been my understanding of this whole thing since 1996 when it became an international issue. I`m not sure what the official answer or position is currently some 8 years later. Either way I think that anyone would benefit training under either Tuhon Leo T. Gaje or his Uncle Tuhon "Nene" Tortal if one wishes to excell in Kali Pekiti-Tirsia (Dekiti-Tirsia Serradas). Go well guys, ciao.
Logged
 

Download