Jim Wagner - Detecting Frauds?

[JeffC]

"A fraud like Wagner telling you how to detect frauds."

"Few self-defense instructors in the world can come close to Mr. Wagner's background: former soldier, jailer, street cop, SWAT officer, diplomatic bodyguard, and most recently, a counterterrorist with the United States government. In addition, Jim Wagner is one of the world's top police and military Defensive Tactics and Tactics instructor's, having trained elite units worldwide." -

?

This is from Wagner's own website in his own words.  I like the way he gives advice on how to detect fraudulent instructors by asking of them merely what's being requested of him on this forum.   Oh, the hypocrisy.  Pay particular attention to the last paragraph where he clearly articulates his mindset that law enforcement was a temporary career designed to "expand my horizons in the  martial arts."  The man is obsessed with rank, titles and the ability to claim associations with professional organizations as a means to carve another notch on the resume.  Absolutely shameful and there is more on the way.   

“If you go to an instructor outside of the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Personal Protection system, and he or she claims to have a Special Operations background, or that they claim teach "the top police and military units," or anything of this nature, then have them prove it to you. Ask them what agencies or units they have served in, and what academies they graduated from and the number of the class. Every academy or Special Forces class has an assigned number. Have them produce training certificates, letters, and of course - photos. Have you ever wondered why many instructors who make wild claims do not give details to their backgrounds or have fail to post that information on their websites? For those instructors who do not have a police or military background, but claim to teach elite police and military units, have them prove it with photos or letters of appreciation. As the old proverb goes, "Buyer beware."
http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/aboutjimwagner/photogallery.html

With this “Buyer beware” attitude in mind, I am respectfully asking JW to produce at least some of his contacts (training officers, commanding officers, team leaders, etc.) for the “dozens of SWAT teams” and “dozens of jail and prisons” he has trained; so they can be verified.

If he is unwilling to do so, then I am respectfully requesting to see copies of the student’s certificates (no names, just dates, unit & location), letters/emails from all of these departments requesting his expertise and desire to have him train them, student rosters, evaluations, training waiver(s)  and documentation proving his status as an “official” tactics instructor for the US units he currently lists on his website:  “US Marshals Service, FBI SWAT, U.S. Border Patrol, California Highway Patrol, U.S. Air Force Security Forces, DEA, U.S. Coast Guard Sea Marshals, San Diego Sheriff’s Academy, U.S. Navy and Marines Provost Marshals Office, U.S. Army Military Police, Navajo Nation Police SWAT teams & Los Angeles Airport Police”
http://www.jimwagneruk.co.uk/   

And/or, can JW give us any of the above information for the, “…over 200 police and military units where agencies either sent personnel to Jim or he was invited to train at their facilities.”

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/aboutjimwagner.html

 

JW has written articles about documenting all training.  So all of this should not be a problem.  Also, JW state, “Since 1992 Jim had only been teaching government agencies.”   It would seem honest and logical that there must be some documentation somewhere after 16+ years of being requested to train at least 200+ military and police units.  Jim, you don’t even have to post any of this on your site – just send me an email with the info and I will let my readers know that you are valid.  If I don’t hear from you in the next 7 days with a list of units/contacts, or a valid reason why this cannot be produced, I will assume that this is just a lot of untruths and outright lies.

“Although an operator in the military and law enforcement communities for two decades…..”
Also from JW’s website:  8 months in the Army, 8 as a street cop, 2 as a jailer, 2 as a reserve deputy, 1 as an air marshal and 2 as an Army reserve truck security Sgt.  That adds up to less than 16 years of on/off active and reserve service.  Hardly the 20 years he is claiming.

Lastly, JW’s website in 2003 clearly states, regarding his participation at the Orange County Sheriff’s Academy for the Costa Mesa PD:  “From day one, starting at the academy I had the mindset that this career was temporary, and I would bail out when I was good and ready.  I kept taking steps up in the police department to expand my horizons in the martial arts.”  So much for his repeated claims of not using his law enforcement training to enhance his martial arts potential to earn.

[JimH]

I would be interested in Mr Wagners definition of what a Fraud is and what a Phony is?

fraud

1. deliberate deception or cheating intended to gain an advantage
2. an act of such deception
3. Informal a person who acts in a false or deceitful way [Latin fraus]

1. fraud - intentional deception resulting in injury to another person
2. fraud - a person who makes deceitful pretenses
3. fraud - something intended to deceive; deliberate trickery intended to gain an advantage

phony Definition
Informal not genuine; false, counterfeit, spurious, pretentious, etc.
something not genuine; sham; fake
a person who is not what he or she pretends to be; one who deceives, dissembles, is insincere, etc.; fraud

It is funny that Mr wagner fits the definitions of the words listed above.

It is also the reason it is Fitting that he is on POWNET and is LISTED as a PHONY.

Sorry Mr Wagner everyone in a Police Department,SWAT team,Special Forces,Marine Corps unit does not have a camera man running behind him/her to document every part of their career.

Everyone does not show up to train or be trained with a travel bag full of cameras as you do.
Do you still show a technique then grab a camera and click pictures of the class doing the materials as you run around filming rather than correcting ?

I have paper work from my things done in my life but near zero photo's.
My photo's are in my head as things I did are memories for me,not to be sold or needed to prove a second in time which can mean/be nothing.

Hookers in the photos with the NJ SWAT team are holding weapons in front of SWAT members,in front of a truck that says SWAT.
If one of those women claimed the photo showed them as a member of NJ SWAT should we believe it?

These are the nature of photo's you put out,poser photo's.

I have a picture of a friend in an old Bobby Uniform from Britain,should this photo be the proof this guy was a BOBBY?
(Like your MET photo)

Again I would like to know what you taught the units around the world ASIDE from your basic Self defense courses.

Did GSG9 learn SWAT  and sniper tactics from you? lol
Did the Israeli Special Forces learn Counter Terrorism tactics from you? lol
Did the US Marine Sniper units learn tactics and deployment from you ? lol

How long were you actually in SWAT?
or
Did you just train in it?

How long were you in Dignitary protection?
or
Did you get a certificate in it?

In a response in BLITZ you claim you count your teachings as part of your time as an officer and soldier as you do not just teach,they show you stuff as well.

Quote JW
"Although I was paid for my services 
(except the Israelis due to a trade out), I too learned from all of 
these groups as well. Does this well known instructor think that I do 
not have the intelligence to absorb information from these world 
class agencies? "

Was the trade out the ranking you were given as an instructor of the various Israeli martial arts?

According to the Air Marshall site,the majority of classes in the first part are in POLICE work.
The second Part is mostly shooting.

Now you claim that counter terrorism is about prevention,I agree  (a part of counter terrorism is prevention).
So in this role you use prevention as your claim to be a "CONTRACTED COUNTERTERRORISM SPECIALIST",why then do the Air marshalls then have a SPECIFIC COUNTER TERRORISM Unit if ALL the Air Marshalls are Counter Terorism specialists?
Did you serve in this unit?

In your definition of Prevention would you say the screeners at the AIRPORTS can claim to be CONTRACTED COUNTER TERRORISM Specialists?

When the NYPD Mobilizes Police officers to Traffic checks at Bridges,Tunnels and Train stations are they also counter Terrorism specialists?
Even though the Majority have POLICE TRAINING Only and NO special counter Terrorism training ?
similar to you

Did the National Guard Units that patrolled airports after 9/11 get called Counter Terrorism specialists?
Did the National Guard troops get special training  in counter terrorism?

What special training did YOU get in the 5 weeks at the first stage of Air Marshall training?

You tell a story of a suspect that followed your friend at an airport,a fellow Air Marshall, and what did you do?
You called a Police Deputy from Orange County to detain and question and the female officer let the Suspect go to your horror.
Sounds like some Great training you got in Counter Terrorism.lol.

You reference me in a response in Blitz about  a post I made which said 3 months flying makes one a counter terrorism specialist,lol.
You say I have No clue to the duties of counter terrorism.
How about 1 year at a TS Base in Scotland?
How about two years at TS Facility in London.

That alone is 3 years of counter Terror WORK,that is 33 more months than you flew in a seat in a plane.(quote you JW:How long can one fly around with out incident and Not Get Bored)
The above was only my USMC job.


You teach people how to avoid being targeted by a sniper ?
You teach people how to avoid being the victim of a terrorist?

You teach theory.
You teach BS.

We have PROFESSIONAL SPECIALISTS (Not certificate secialists) who are getting shot at by snipers and getting blown up by Terrorists in war zones.
Do you know more than they do?
(hey you got pics though of you in BDU's by a sand colored Hummer)

Are your weekends with the GSG9,Israelis or some other unit looking to see what is out there better preparing you to teach people how to survive things that are UN survivable?

You are all about embellishing/padding your resume and taking peoples money with BS smoke and mirrors.

You will go the way of Mr Petterson of SCARS and the others.

When next you see ARNOLD,the Govonor who hired you to be a CSMR,lol tell him I said Hi.
I know ARNOLD since 1970.
Sorry I don't have pictures.
Though one of me sitting next to Arnold at a body Building show in NY was in a Muscle Builder magazine,lol.

Lucky for me you didn't know that when I attended your course,lol
You would have written about me as another connection to Arnold before he was in the same building as you during "Operation Fall blaze"
LOL
 

[JimH]

Mr Wagner
Did you get sent by your department to the 1st Mar Div scout sniper school,OFFICALLY?
or
Did you perhaps go there with guys from HSS?
or
Know guys with HSS who gave you certificates?

The Time Machine find is a great thing.

Seems you had a Site
WWW.Wararts.com
Sold your Police video.

Funny name for a site to sell a become a cop video.
Then in a year you have HSS
www.hikestalkshoot.com on your link.

There you are on their site.

But if you put in
WWW.hike stalkshoot.com
outside of your link
you get their full web pages

I found this interesting

quote from hike stalk shoot page

"In fact, it was Hike Stalk Shoot's close relationship with the instructors of the 1st Marine Division Scout/Sniper School which changed the way California police snipers trained and even went on call-outs."

Get your certificates from somebody from the 1st Mar Div scout sniper school who WAS OFF DUTY,training with a bunch of others playing sniper?

http://web.archive.org/web/19990220140956/www.hikestalkshoot.com/whowa.htm

A lot of talk on Reality Based Training scenarios??

[JimH]

MrWagner,
Did you serve on a SWAT Team?
Did you hold an entry or sniper position on a Team that did actual assaults?

According to your Bio on HSS
"Jim Wagner is a Chief Instructor for HSS International and has 10 years law enforcement experience in Southern California as a police officer. Assignments have included corrections, patrol, bicycle patrol, and SWAT. Trained as a police scout/sniper, Jim was responsible for providing tactical diagrams and running the Tactical Operations Center. Jim is HSS International�s chief Combatives instructor with 23 years of martial arts experience. He is a columnist for Black Belt magazine, and is regularly featured in SWAT magazine. Jim is also an ASLET instructor and Range Safety Officer. He is currently a deputy for the Orange County Sheriff's in California. "

Now from what I get you attended SWAT training but you SERVED in the Tactical Operations Center supplying tactical diagrams.
A command post job?
This is clearly not a SWAT team position is it?

Where is the mention of your military?

They also do not mention your work with Government and international Military and Police units?

[Trainer]

This whole Jim Wagner thing is like watching the Hidenburg crash into the Titanic

[JimH]

Capt Chris is Capt Chris Pizzo/formerly Lt X but some how he was promoted.LOL.
LTX/Capt Chris is another phony with a made up history as a Military expert who NEVER served.
There is reference to him on another recent posting.

[Trainer]

I cant help but wonder if Sgt Skippy has a wife and kids, what they must be going through if he is married. The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son

I can she his whole life going down the shitter on this one. Dont get me wrong he is the authur of his own demise, still i wonder about his family (if he has one)

[JeffC]

Here's more from the JW files. 

“Have you noticed lately that there are a lot of martial arts instructors out there telling people that they instruct the Navy SEALs, Army Special Forces, Rangers, SWAT teams or whoever. They do this to boost student enrolment and to sell videos, but anyone making the claim that they instruct "elite teams" should come under suspicion.”  Well, JW, you are under suspicion.  Except for canceling your only training in the USA (because the host caught wind of your checkered and dubious background), you cannot seem able to answer the basic and easy 13 questions……

http://www.usadojo.com/pdf-files/jim-wagner-tips-and-tricks.pdf

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php?topic=4049.0

 

“Use-of-Force consultant and trainer for dozens of federal, state, local and foreign law enforcement and military police agencies.”  If you had read this last week, you’d assume it was all true and these dozens of agencies and military units wanted and sought JW out – now it turns out it was all a lie.  See below for details.

http://groups.msn.com/Nubreedmartialarts/combatgrappling.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=1448

There is now an HSS International section to JW’s website.  Why did it take his near destruction for JW to finally tell the truth; that 95% of his bragging rights came from HSS.  Not, as he has stated and defended for the last 5+ years, from 200+ agencies wanting him to come to them and requesting him.  This is like saying that all the major airlines wanted Jim Wagner to fly on their planes to protect their passengers and aircraft – not that he was assigned to the flights as an air aarshal (for the six months he managed to stay in the program).  Another stretched truth and continuous fabrication brought to you by JW.  Now, he just needs to answer his Special Forces experience statements, his “combat experience” lies, being shot at lie, being the “official instructor” for all the teams he lists, the Israeli teaching record lie, being a SWAT Team member lie (an actual team member…not someone brought on to draw diagrams), etc. etc.

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/bioaddhss.html   

[Hock]

For some reason, an awful lot of guests/"drive-bys" have been looking heavily at this old Jim Wagner page for the last few week.

Hock
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4084.0.html