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Author Topic: AK-47s, Terrorists (and a Wagnerism)  (Read 2000 times)

JimH

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AK-47s, Terrorists (and a Wagnerism)
« on: July 25, 2008, 07:58:37 AM »

Mr Wagner,
In the recent issue of Black Belt Mag (sept 08) in your High Risk article you state in the weapons and the law article:
"I own a couple of legal "assault rifles" 2 AR-15s and an AK-47,which is the terrorists weapon of choice"
(you would use neither if someone invaded your home,as to the law it would look bad,you would instead use your .45 semi auto handgun with your .38 backup)

Now my question is to you as a Former SWAT Member and an AIR MARSHALL:

When was the LAST TIME a TERRORIST committed an act of TERRORISM /TERRORIST ATTACK using an AK-47?

The weapon of choice to a TERRORIST is a BOMB,or improvised Bomb such as the EID or the use of aircraft on as on 9/11.

There were NO AKs used in
MADRID
LONDON
New York
Bali
Beruit
or
the the majority of the Hundreds of Terror attacks world wide since the 1970's.

There were no AKS nor any firearms used to take over ANY of the aircraft Hijacked and used as bombs/missles on 9/11.

So where does this FACT you state come from?

I think you watched Clint Eastwood as Gunny Highway in Heart Break Ridge,one too many times,LOL
Gunny Highway says,the AK-47 is the preferred weapon of our enemy.
He means as weapon on the battlefield in a fire fight.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 02:26:52 PM by Hock »
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JeffC

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2008, 11:27:16 AM »

Hopefully, this will put the SWAT question to rest once and for all.  Some of his other claims are easily refuted by extracting details from his own bio.  For example, he lists Special Forces (soldier, corrections officer, police, etc) and then later provides conflicting details about the history of his 8 months in the army.  Within that history he states he was an E-2; however,  we know that he claimed to be an NCO.  In reality, the only person you need to question the veracity of Jim Wagner's claims is.................JIM WAGNER!  More to follow. 
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lawman

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 02:39:57 PM »

Mr Wagner,
In the recent issue of Black Belt Mag (sept 08) in your High Risk article you state in the weapons and the law article:
"I own a couple of legal "assault rifles" 2 AR-15s and an AK-47,which is the terrorists weapon of choice"
(you would use neither if someone invaded your home,as to the law it would look bad,you would instead use your .45 semi auto handgun with your .38 backup)

Now my question is to you as a Former SWAT Member and an AIR MARSHALL:

When was the LAST TIME a TERRORIST committed an act of TERRORISM /TERRORIST ATTACK using an AK-47?

The weapon of choice to a TERRORIST is a BOMB,or improvised Bomb such as the EID or the use of aircraft on as on 9/11.

There were NO AKs used in
MADRID
LONDON
New York
Bali
Beruit
or
the the majority of the Hundreds of Terror attacks world wide since the 1970's.


There were no AKS nor any firearms used to take over ANY of the aircraft Hijacked and used as bombs/missles on 9/11.

So where does this FACT you state come from?

I think you watched Clint Eastwood as Gunny Highway in Heart Break Ridge,one too many times,LOL
Gunny Highway says,the AK-47 is the preferred weapon of our enemy.
He means as weapon on the battlefield in a fire fight.

No DISRESPECT, but you oughta get the facts straight:

On September 5, 1977, an RAF 'commando unit' attacked the chauffeured car carrying Hanns-Martin Schleyer, then president of the German employers' association, in Cologne. His driver, Heinz Marcisz, 41, was forced to brake when a baby carriage suddenly appeared in the street in front of them. The police escort vehicle behind them was unable to stop in time, and crashed into Schleyer's car. About 20 masked RAF members sprayed machine gun and machine pistol bullets into the two vehicles, killing Marcisz and a police officer, Roland Pieler, 20, who was seated in the backseat of Marcisz's car. The driver of the police escort vehicle, Reinhold Brändle, 41 and a third police officer, Helmut Ulmer, 24, who was in the second vehicle were also killed. The hail of bullets riddled over twenty bullet wounds into the bodies of Brändle and Pieler.

might not necessarily have been AK's but close enough!
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Milldog1776

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 02:47:06 PM »



might not necessarily have been AK's but close enough!

What do you mean by close enough? Did they use AK's or not?
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JimH

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 04:31:54 PM »

Hi
Yes there have been attacks using firearms,not all AK -47's

You reached back to 1977 to get that one and I am sure there are more
BUT
I covered my response in the post I wrote,that you quoted
quote JimH
"There were NO AKs used in
MADRID
LONDON
New York
Bali
Beruit
or
the the majority of the Hundreds of Terror attacks world wide since the 1970's."

The Majority of attacks are BOMB or improvised munitions,even the use of aircraft as bombs/missles.

If I have the facts wrong that Terrorists outside of the War/conflict in the Middle east are using bombs/improvised munitions as their weapon of choice over AK 47's maybe someone can give me a count of those attacks compared to bombings.

Here is a quick count of Bombings to firearms
from wikipedia list of terror attacks 1970-2006

Firearms do not say AK or what,and if an attack did not state bomb ,mortar or anything other than firearm I counted it as Firearm
I did not count foiled plots nor hijackings or kidnappings in which no one was killed
Bombings include all stated to be other than firearm

Roughly attacks outside of a War zone/conflict

bombings (of all types) 1195
Firearms (non specific weapon,or non specific attack) 103

I think I have made my point as far as which is the weapon of choice of a terrorist
THE BOMB/explosive device

I think that a SWAT member,Air Marshall,and person who teaches how to survive BOMBS,SNIPER attacks,BIO/Chem attacks and all sorts of weapons attacks would be more familiar with the weapon of choice of a terrorist.

And unless one knows when a scope is on them at distance,or they have a bomb detecting dog on the leash as they walk it for a pee,or they have a Biologic/chem meter on as they walk around,the odds of survivning any of these attacks is SLIM to NONE,but not according to Mr Wagner.

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Bryan Lee

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 09:09:40 PM »


  Not that it makes any difference but there was on major act of terrorism which was carried out in America involving a AK 47 rifle. That was the case of Mir Aimal Kasi. I know it well because I was in Southern Thailand the day he was executed in America and there were all kind of warnings from the embassy to keep a low profile as Americans around any Muslim State or area. More specifically I remember seeing a young Englishmen on holiday wearing a New York hat around a bunch of Muslim guys and shared the warning with him which he stuck the hat in his pocket and it was a just a quiet day, looking back it all seems paranoid now but the embassy was correct to send out warnings.

  Anyone who was involved in "The War On Terror" from POTUS to the lowest levels of airport bag check/parking lot security should easily remember the story of Mir Aimal Kasi as the day he was executed November,14, 2002, will go down as one of the tightest security days in American history.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_Aimal_Kasi

At around 8 a.m. on January 25, 1993, Kasi stopped his brown station wagon behind a number of vehicles waiting at a red traffic light on the eastbound side of Route 123, Fairfax County.[6] The vehicles were waiting to make a left turn into the main entrance of CIA headquarters. Kasi emerged from his vehicle with an AK-47 and proceeded to move among the lines of vehicles, firing into them. Within seconds, he had killed Lansing H. Bennett MD, 66, and Frank Darling, 28. Three others were left with gunshot wounds.[5] Darling was shot first and later received additional gunshot wounds to the head after Kasi shot the other victims.

During his later confession, Kasi said that he'd only stopped firing because "there wasn't anybody else left to shoot", and that he only shot male passengers because "it would be against [his] religion to shoot females".[5]

He was also surprised at the lack of an armed response: "I thought I will be arrested, or maybe killed in a shootout with CIA guards or police."[3]




  Back to the AK issue that's been brought up. The one single case that I mentioned was a  isolated incident but its one that could easily be duplicated. Then again anyone smart enough to make a stone tomahawk with natural materials can defeat 99% of airport security.

  Once you go international the AK and about any firearm that can be had is used in terrorism around the globe. From Zionist Terrorist attacking Muslims in Jerusalem, To Egyptian Terrorist attacking tourists, To Mindanao, Pakistan, Columbia, and even here in Thailand where small bombs are use to disable vehicles and small arms are then used to finish off any survivors.
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JimH, "Bryan, have you seen the Elephant?"  Bryan Lee, "I Am The MotherFFFFing Elephant!"

JimH

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2008, 07:10:31 AM »

So singular incidents of use of an AK-47 or a firearm of most times small groups or singular people are seen as having the same impact on society as a BOMB?

What is the Goal of a Terrorist?

To create Terror and in this day and Age the BOMB is the most useful weapon for that end.

A Suicide Bomber willing to walk into a Crowd,a Car Bomb outside a busy Gathering area,a Truck bomb,these Yield Higher end results,(More casualties) and instill more fear than any one man with an AK-47.

Would one of the first uses of the Suicide Truck bomber against the Marine Barracks in Beruit have worked if the Terrorists had used AK-47's?

While some will say,the DC Sniper instilled fear,he also shot from distance and not with an AK.

The weapon of choice in this day and age for the Terorist is the Bomb and if they can get their hands on Nuclear materials,Chems or biologic agents that can be delivered then that will become the Terrorists meathod of choice.

The US Government has conducted enough experiments of release of agents at airports and on singular aircraft to know that that is has the potential to create the Highest yield of casualties,but luckily we have not seen it used as a means by terrorists.

So while the AK and or any small arms maybe a weapon,it is NOT the desired WEAPON of CHOICE of the TERRORIST,the BOMB (at this time) creates the most fear,the most casualties and can be done with Zero casualties to the enemy/terrorist as they need not be in the area when the explosion occurs,unless they want to give themselves to the cause.

In the shooting of the Police and Driver of Hanns Schleyer,I do not believe AK-$&s were used by the RAF.
The most used weapon of choice by the Red Army Faction/Baader Mainhoff was the Bomb.

While some members went and trained with the PLO and more than likely trained in the Use of the AK-47 (which is the more popular weapon in the region) they also learned about bombs.

Again the bomb allows one to get it in ,plant it where needed and get out and take the target/s by surprise and CREATE TERROR.

Isolated usage of small arms fire does not change the facts of what the Terrorists see as the BEST Weapon of USE at THIS Time,the Bomb in its many shapes and forms.
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whitewolf

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2008, 08:38:27 AM »

JimH=A few years ago (many in fact) I  met a marine who was at Beruit during the horrific explosion-he was on sentry duty out past the barracks-He was not issued  any ammo-enough said........Truck went right past their position and towards the building
Its history  now -politics is the name of the game -everywhere. stay  safe whitewolf
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JimH

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Wagner, Terrorism, AK47s
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2008, 04:22:05 PM »

A friend of mine was also there.
He was in charge of a sniper unit,had woke up early and had a BAD Feeling so he got his men up and they moved  outside the compound.
Had he ignored his Gut feeling he and his men would probably have been statistics.
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Hock

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    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: AK-47s, Terrorists (and a Wagnerism)
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2008, 08:47:34 PM »

This continues here
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4283.0.html

I am unable to splice entries into threads

Hock
 

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