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Author Topic: new wing chun guy on the scene  (Read 16226 times)

Bryant

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new wing chun guy on the scene
« on: August 07, 2008, 02:04:09 PM »

looks interesting...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrJrvb97ji8
is that rave music playing in the background?  :-\
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 02:14:38 PM by Bryant »
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Wizard

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2008, 08:27:28 PM »

Bryant,

Is this the guy you were talking about at the UC Camp?  Great video, thanks for posting.

Wizard
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2008, 05:23:15 AM »

I don't know whethethe guy can fight or not.  But that looked like ridiculous and comedic movie "violence" to me.
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Bryant

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2008, 03:02:56 PM »

hey Wizard
That is the guy I was talking about
He seems to have come up with his own take on wing chun
from what I can see, the guy has some skill

and of course the demos are choreographed
all demos are choreographed...
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2008, 03:53:57 PM »

But some demos are choreographed to display what a person can do in a real fight.  These are not.
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Bryant

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2008, 05:22:08 PM »

Bri,

The fact that it's a demo means it will be limited in how "real" it looks, would you rather he just beat the sh*t out of his students just so you can see what he can do. I'm curious as to what in your opinion qualifies as a realistic demo. When you practice combat scenarios, how "real" do they look to an untrained person? I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I just want you to be a little more clear in you criticism and In that way it adds to the discussion. This is one of the reasons why I personally would never
post a video on you tube just to be criticized by some idiot who probably doesn't know what the f*ck he's talking about. Not that you fall into that category, but I think you know what I mean.  I've seen one or two of this guys videos and although I don't agree with all of his methods, it's nice to see a fresh approach.
if you want to visit his school over in the UK and see if he's the real deal be sure to report back to us and let us know how that goes...

B.

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usks1

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2008, 05:37:12 PM »

Bryant,
Exactly......................

You can't do a scenario full force on your opponent / training partner. I think M Wong looks pretty damn good myself.. I know he may be violating some WC rules according to some, but in the end if it looks like he would have won, then what the hell good are the rules anyway... But then again.... "There are no rules"..

If I was in the U.K. I would check him out. You can't judge a fighter by his demos, but you can see if the guy has good speed, power, balance, tenacity, intensity etc.... He looks like he has a good solid handle on his expression of the art, and what more can we really ask for than to be able to express our method of ass whuppin as effectively and efficiently as possible?


Bri,

The fact that it's a demo means it will be limited in how "real" it looks, would you rather he just beat the sh*t out of his students just so you can see what he can do. I'm curious as to what in your opinion qualifies as a realistic demo. When you practice combat scenarios, how "real" do they look to an untrained person? I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I just want you to be a little more clear in you criticism and In that way it adds to the discussion. This is one of the reasons why I personally would never
post a video on you tube just to be criticized by some idiot who probably doesn't know what the f*ck he's talking about. Not that you fall into that category, but I think you know what I mean.  I've seen one or two of this guys videos and although I don't agree with all of his methods, it's nice to see a fresh approach.
if you want to visit his school over in the UK and see if he's the real deal be sure to report back to us and let us know how that goes...

B.


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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2008, 08:03:31 AM »

Just what is he supposed to be deminstrating?  Acrobatics?  Kung Fu Movie potential?  Or fighting ability?

No, he should not beat the shit out of his demo partner.  But, IF he is purporting to be demonstrating the actual fighting prowess of his art (and himself), then maybe he should be demonstrating actual moves that he would do in an actual fight.

One of the best ways to judge the effectiveness of the fighting technique displayed in a demo is this.  Do not just look at the guy doing the demo.  Make sure you pay real attention to what the demo partner is doing.

That's why Krav Maga gets such rave reviews.  People see the fighter pulling off all kinds of cool looking techniques.  But look at the guy he is demonstrating on.  He is playing "statue."  One highly telegraphed punch or kick.... and then he conveniently freezes whilst our hero puts all his cool bits in.

But that is teaching people how NOT to fight.  That shows techniques that will NOT work for real, as the whole premise is wrong.  No one will punch/kick in a highly telegraphed manner and then conveniently freeze for you in the real world - and none of the techniques you have practiced against such a person will work when your teeth are at stake.

Like I said originally.  I don't know, or care, if this guy can fight for real or not.  But I DO know that he is not demonstrating viable fighting techniques in this clip.

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Bryant

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2008, 01:54:33 PM »

Bri,

Thank you for restating your a opinion,but I still would like you to answer the other question I posed. Can you please post a clip or give us an example of someone who gives a realistic demo. The point I am making is that this is somewhat of an oxymoron, there is no way to know if what is shown in a demo will "work" in a real fight, you never know what's going to work you may be able to figure out what has a high probability of working but this will vary from person to person what one person can do is not the same as what another person can do if your disdain for this clip is simply based on your own personal taste that's fine But I would really love to see or read your description of a "realistic demo". In addition to that, how do you as an observer judge what will or will not work, would you have to have knowledge of the system being demonstrated or should it be soley based on your opinion. Nothing personal here, I'm just not a fan of shallow criticism, point out something specific that you think would not work, what experience of yours is it based on. Do you feel as though you understand what he is demonstrating?
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grlaun

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2008, 03:15:16 PM »

Bryant - welcome to the Bri Thai toilet bowl vortex - full of shit and sucks you in.
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2008, 03:53:07 PM »

Why thank you Jeff.  A brilliant contribution to a serious thread.  Mind you, it does seem that people get shitty when you disagree with them here.  Do raise your game, little fellah.  You might learn something.

Bri,

Thank you for restating your a opinion,but I still would like you to answer the other question I posed. Can you please post a clip or give us an example of someone who gives a realistic demo. The point I am making is that this is somewhat of an oxymoron, there is no way to know if what is shown in a demo will "work" in a real fight, you never know what's going to work you may be able to figure out what has a high probability of working but this will vary from person to person what one person can do is not the same as what another person can do if your disdain for this clip is simply based on your own personal taste that's fine But I would really love to see or read your description of a "realistic demo". In addition to that, how do you as an observer judge what will or will not work, would you have to have knowledge of the system being demonstrated or should it be soley based on your opinion. Nothing personal here, I'm just not a fan of shallow criticism, point out something specific that you think would not work, what experience of yours is it based on. Do you feel as though you understand what he is demonstrating?


Shitty attitude Bryant.  No matter.  This is the first time you have asked me to post a clip of someone going full force.  By the way, where did I say that someone had to go full force in a demo anyway?  And where did I say that someone had to get beaten up?  When you disagree with a person who has an open mind, they try to counter your points with rational argument.  People have a habit of learning things, and the learning often goes both ways.  But, when you disagree with someone who has a closed mind?  Then they try all kinds of tricks to avoid that uncomfortable feeling of being contradicted, including criticising points that you did not make.  Just like here.  No matter. 

"there is no way to know if what is shown in a demo will "work" in a real fight"

Really?  So demonstrating a left hook to the jaw will leave us ignorant of whether or not it works....and we will be similarly ignorant of someone demonstrating that silly chi power? 

Nonsense.  If you have good training and real life experience you will know what will have a good chance of working and what hs not.  To spell it out - left hook = "yes."  - Chi power = "no."

As for a "realistic demo?"  Try this.  I choose it because the guy is actually talking about what is, and what is not, realistic during the clip.  So it is doubly relevant.  The words are a little out of sync with the action, but it's not too bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qxIcnaXHDk

He is actually training with people who have not yet learned the difference between training for real, and training in a fashion that allows the technique to work.  See how the guy finds it almost impossible to really go for Dimitri in the clip, and keeps throwing a telegraphed strike, and then freezing?

To be honest I could even post you clips of people hitting pads that are more realistic than this movie Kung Fu nonsense that some people here seem to think bares a resemblance to reality.  It is all in the application after all.

"how do you as an observer judge what will or will not work, would you have to have knowledge of the system being demonstrated or should it be soley based on your opinion."

Errrr... no matter what system you practice, or observe..... anyone with any experience knows that a real attacker will not stick his arm or leg out and then stand there for you.  Or, of course, willingly throw himself backwards and/or to the ground.

As for "shallow criticism?"  That's ripe.  What I see hear is shallow acceptance.  You see a guy wave his arms and legs about whilst his statuesque stoog falls over, and then tell everyone how good it looks.

I have experience of Wing Chun, many other arts, and  extensive and current experience of real world violence.  I never said that the guy could not fight neither.  I specifically said hat I do not know either way, but that this clip does not provide any evidence that he can.

Now you've just read my answer to your questions.  Let's turn it on it's head.  Perhaps you will tell us what is good about this?  Tell us just how dealing with a statue who falls over and throws himself backwards all the time proves anything?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 03:57:26 PM by Bri Thai »
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whitewolf

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2008, 04:01:11 PM »


all=what really gets to  me is we want to discuss new H2H tactics-when one comes up it has to be jumped on from all angles-that is great but lets talk about the actual tactic not folishness like robots who stand there-the idea of training is to learn how to do the movment and as we learn more about we can speed it   up to the point the student understand it and feels comfortable with it. Of course when a  movement is done the receiver is not there to dodge it unless that is part of the training. The student is attempting to learn the movement not kill the opponent...Hope i  am  making sense. its late and i worked all day. In other words if these new tactics seem to  work -so  be  it- Bri if you are close go  take the course and then let us know---ww (ELB)
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grlaun

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2008, 06:53:36 PM »

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arnold

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2008, 07:34:06 PM »

I would agree with Bryant as he got a small dose of my close contact techniques. I'm sure he enjoyed them till the advil wore off
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Bryant

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2008, 08:08:21 PM »

well Bri, I will use my poor attitude to ignore your direct insults, mind you if your were within arms reach you might get a bitch slap. you've obviously become a little too emotionally invested in this thread. let's just agree to disagree and in the mean time you can replace your pad

btw you still didn't answer my question, but that's ok
I'm done

B.

ps
that clip you posted is not a demo, he's obviously teaching a class...jackass
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 08:18:53 PM by Bryant »
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Karl

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 01:49:04 AM »

Maybe i am missing something.

I have his DVD.
He points out what to do, how to do it and why.
Points out mistakes in footwork etc.

Aren't we suppose have a look at it and find out, if we can make what he shows work for Ourself.

I always thought that's why we gravitated to hocks system?
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2008, 03:35:46 AM »

well Bri, I will use my poor attitude to ignore your direct insults, mind you if your were within arms reach you might get a bitch slap. you've obviously become a little too emotionally invested in this thread. let's just agree to disagree and in the mean time you can replace your pad

btw you still didn't answer my question, but that's ok
I'm done

B.

ps
that clip you posted is not a demo, he's obviously teaching a class...jackass

Hey.  Great open minded argument.

I didn't insult you, and I did answer your question.  In fact the only actual critique of the clip has been from me.  As regards your threat?  That's pretty brave of you.  I'm really impressed.  And scared.  Please don't bitch slap me Wing Chun style though.  I have a wife and kids to feed and am too young to die.

We could start a new game. We could call it "Spot the debate!"  After all, playing "Spot the Dick Head" is too easy when you're around.

"I'm done" - Yes.  It seems that you are.  And you didn't counter one of my arguments.  Not one.

At least li'l Jeff upped his game.  He can post pictures.  Who's a clever boy then?
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gematriot

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2008, 04:06:54 AM »

This is what happens when you attempt to produce a non-choreographed "kung fu demo"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5GAb5MQapo&feature=related

Scripted motion sells better.
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2008, 04:23:44 AM »

They certainly do. 

If the guy is merely trying to make money then he is probably going about it in the right way.  All kinds of inexperienced people will look at it and think it is really cool - just like they do with Krav Maga, Systema and all kinds of rubbish.

This touches on one of the central points of the fighting arts, something that many people never realise.  And it is this.  Just because something looks aesthetically impressive, it does NOT mean that it must be effective.

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gematriot

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2008, 05:27:27 AM »

Hi Bri Thai

Your last post virtually demands a response, so here goes…

Point 1:
If the guy is merely trying to make money then he is probably going about it in the right way.

This is a line of reasoning that could be taken to imply that Wong is dishonest in his business dealings. This is almost certainly not the case. It is a leap to state that, because Wong publishes a demo that places him in the best possible light, the viewer could make a “judgement call” about his general skill level. This type of reasoning runs close to the “Call to Perfection” logical fallacy. This fallacy is committed when one argues to postpone some action or policy until some unlikely event or impossible change is achieved. I submit that martial arts demos were always, and will always be, done in this same manner.

Point 2:
All kinds of inexperienced people will look at it and think it is really cool.

Here a person must ask: “Why do all kinds of inexperienced people will look at it and think it is really cool?”. The answer is quite simply that the brain prefers order rather than chaos. Any well ordered demo will affect the uninformed more positively, than will chaos. The proper arena to argue against this is the training floor, not the demo reel.

Point 3:
So demonstrating a left hook to the jaw will leave us ignorant of whether or not it works....and we will be similarly ignorant of someone demonstrating that silly chi power?

I submit that someone with no training in combatives and / or scientific skepticism could be taken in by demos of chi power claims and may also doubt the power of the hook. I have been approached more than once by  people who “wanted to defend themselves wihout hurting the other guy”. Likewise I am training with a corrections officer who is frustrated by his department´s exccesive insistance on pain compliance and come along techniques. Where do the powers that be cultivate these attitudes? Primarily by seeing them on film, and believing them.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 05:29:57 AM by gematriot »
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grlaun

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2008, 06:18:32 AM »

Welcome to the Bri Thai toilet bowl vortex - full of shit and sucks you in.

Dare I repeat? 
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2008, 04:15:08 AM »

Since you are about 8,000 miles away.....  Yes.  I bet you dare.

 ::)
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arsenalgunna

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2008, 09:34:15 AM »

Don't you have your own forum to piss and moan on?  Or did everyone get so tired of your incessant nitpicking and your need to be the center of attention over there that you have to start doing that shit here? Please, give us a break.   
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Wizard

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2008, 09:58:39 AM »

Is this really a useful discussion?   Opinions abound.  It's easy to criticize what someone else is showing or doing. 

The Wing Chun dude is obviously talented.  Would all of the demo stuff work on the street?  Who knows, maybe not.  But I bet out of all the techniques, that he's repeated many times, he'd be able to call on some of them under pressure.  It'd be uglier, but something he's throwing would work.  See it for what it is--a demo, nothing more or less. 

And don't assume things about other systems, Mr. Thai.  You bad mouth Krav Maga a bit.  I've been in 3 different Israeli arts, and have seen a variety as far as how realistic and effective things look.  Some have been too choreographed and therefore less helpful.  Others have been in-your-face banging around.  As a matter of fact, some classes look just like the video link you posted! 

Wizard

In general, global, all-or-nothing statements about anything, includine martial arts systems, are simply inaccurate.  Proceed with caution.
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whitewolf

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2008, 11:50:51 AM »

Hello Wizard-Whitewolf  here-you  know dont you that this guy Bri will never quite as he is in cyberspace-he reads, thinks of a response that will get some one agitated and then when they respond he continues sticking it to  them-I joke like most of the members on here brcause its good for laughs and makes most smile a little . This guy needs help but probably will never seak it-so-just let him pass on  by- as for KM I agree 100% with you-
take care WW (ELB)
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2008, 03:25:18 PM »

If only someone would post something that actually counters what I say......... In fairness, Wizard did, but then lost it by taking it personal when, as far as I know, I haven't even spoken to him before.

Dear all..... I'm so sorry that I was unimpressed with the clip, and that I posted reasons for that in a logical maner.  I'll try not to do it again.

 ;)

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Wizard

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2008, 08:03:58 PM »

Hey, at least I called you Mr. Thai!  I didn't think it was personal, just commenting on your comments.  It was respectful, I believe.  I just disagreed w/you.

Wizard
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2008, 05:45:22 AM »

I thought it was condescending.  But it is hard to judge since all the other posts have been so poor.  My apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

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gematriot

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2008, 06:45:17 AM »

Quote
I thought it was condescending.

HMMM.....

Speaking directly to someone who has posted is condescending???

BUT....

Quote
But it is hard to judge since all the other posts have been so poor.

and

Quote
Dear all..... I'm so sorry that I was unimpressed with the clip, and that I posted reasons for that in a logical maner.  I'll try not to do it again.

is not supposed to be condescending?

Allow me to LOL, many times...
 


« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 06:52:28 AM by gematriot »
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Bri Thai

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Re: new wing chun guy on the scene
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2008, 04:58:37 AM »

Allowed.

But, of course, it is allowed to be condescending to someone who has proven that they are merely sniping, and not taking part in the debate in a credible way.

It's a bit like punching somoene in the head.  Not really civilised behaviour... but most agree that it is fine to do it to someone who is trying to do it to you.

Let's hear a reasoned post from you, about the issues.
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