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[Joe Hubbard]

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/news31jul08au.html

If you can get through this without falling asleep, please note that:
 

J I M   W A G N E R   N O W   A C C U S E S   M E 

of defaming him in order to promote my new DVD series along with trying to convince all the people in the UK that it was I who really invented Reality Based Self Defense.  WTF???  Jimbo, there is a post on this site where I credit the REAL Reality Based pioneers such as Tony Blauer, Richard Dimitri, Sammy Franco and Paul Vunak- not you or even little ol’ me.  Get your facts right Putz Boy!

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4054.0.html


Please Mr. Wagner where did I say this?  All my posts are out there to quote, so please reference this with fact for all to see, not BS as you are commonly used to.  I love your “heart on the sleeve” story about how it was never about rank- c’mon! You have been telling people for years at seminars that you were an NCO in a combat infantry unit when in reality (note the irony) you were actually a private in basic training who couldn’t wait to be discharged.  Remember the metropolitan police officer and the Territorial Army soldier that you mislead all who read your blog that they are plural?  Yes, unbeknownst to you, both of these guys ( David Shorter and Alan Cain) are students and friends of mine.  You try to derail my comments on Self Protection Dot Com by saying that I have had zero military and no police experience.  Well, I have never claimed any, so what is your argument. 
 

My criticisms of you are that you are a lying toe rag who is stealing valor from those who have actually laid their lives on the line.  

And unlike you, despite having no military or police background, I actually have taught the London Metropolitan Police and the Territorial Army; unlike you having a couple of police officers and a soldier (who unlike you has laid his life down many times for his country in Iraq and Afghanistan) attend a tiny civilian-based seminar of yours. THAT is not  metro police seminar. 


Your facts are also wrong in that you did teach a civilian seminar in London in 2001. 


I know it’s going to be difficult for you to answer that one as you made up lies about how you taught the London Metropolitan Police a seminar that they commissioned you for and documented that in Black Belt magazine- what's the matter, no letter of appreciation for that one?  Unfortunately for you, the guy who paid you to come to the UK and teach him and three others is a former student of mine. 
 
And just to set the record straight, it has always been about your shifty misrepresentation in relation to your jaded background.  Don’t write between the lines that The Jim Wagner Reality Based System is what I am attacking.  Why?  Because you have already sabotaged it!  It’s crap and it will always be crap.  I never commented on it before because that was not the focus, but just so it is perfectly clear, I would rather study Tai Chi than the misrepresentation of the shite that you sell the public.  Man, you must love the smell of your own farts; what the fuck is revolutionary about the watered down mess that you are teaching?   

What the hell was the tribute to Jeff Clancy about?  Have you got no shame at all?  Haven’t you read where Jeff denounces you, calling you on your lies and misrepresentations on this very forum?  He has clearly stated that YOU did not teach DEA agents.  Man, are you are thick skinned or what?

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4094.0.html

Oh I love the other page where Sgt Snowflake tries to back pedal about his phony SWAT experience describing the SWAT test that he failed where he was running like a gazelle.  Entertaining reading!  More coffee and donuts please.


"I ran around the one-minute-or-less obstacle course leaping the walls like a gazelle and weaved myself around the pylons like going through like a slalom course in 56 seconds."

The people who are the real victims are Wagner's instructors who have fallen for his BS.  The people who have already invested into the lies and feel that they are caught between a rock and a hard place if they come out and say anything against JW.  The people who have banked that their instructorships have actually meant something.


http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/bioaddswat.html

Out

Joe

[noload]

Jim Wagner says...

they knew my civilian students and instructors would only know about my background based upon my books, DVDs, articles, and my website.  Unless they chose to call each of the agencies I worked for or trained with, and these places would not release any information to the public anyway, there was no way to verify my claims.

Is there a spinning head smiley? Does Wagner read what he writes before clicking save?

[wisdom]

 All this Wagnerific talk has got me wondering had Black Belt magazine made this big of mistake before....and If so what did they do about it?

Is there something even close in the history of the mag?

Didn't quite know where to post this with all the other JW shit going on.

Yes I barely read it  too, but curious

[noload]

During my days off Matt Jones had to teach some day courses, so his mother, Barbara, took me out for a coffee at Bravo Express where we talked about Australian and American politics. She then was kind enough to drop me off on North Terrace Street where all of the museums of Adelaide are located. This street is just one street north of Hindley Street, where if there was ever to be a terrorist attack it would be on this busy shopping street.

Besides being so self important that all parts of his day must be shared in detail with the public, he's also willing to publically share what he sees as a soft target, which I'm sure the local merchants appreciate.

Is Wagner to reality based self protection what Spinal Tap is to rock bands?




 

[JimH]

Hey Joe,
Wagner is probably upset you did not take a page from his book and get the Embassy job work it for a few months and then pack it in before you had to actually do something and start selling it like he does,lol.

Quote Jim Wagner:
"Unless they chose to call each of the agencies I worked for or trained with, and these places would not release any information to the public anyway, there was no way to verify my claims"

The above is what he counts on,that agencies he has worked for will say NOTHING.

Then you have students of Joe Hubbard who are with the MET and the Territorials and they tell the truth.

You have men like Mr Jeff Clancy who has come on this forum and said JW is Full of it.

You have men from Costa Mesa SWAT who tell the truth in interviews specifically about Jim Wagner.

His writings followed with a little searching shows that his work with all these agencies and militaries was done while he worked for HSS and he WAS NOT the Instructor for ANY of the Courses except,Hand to Hand and Tactical Operations Center.

So if we say he was :
NOT an NCO in the Military during his 8 month stint
NOT an Officer in a jail that held prisoners longer than 6 hours.
NOT an Instructor to the USMC Snipers.
NOT an instructor to the US Army Special Forces
NOT on a front line SWAT, but as an office Tactical Officer,
NOT an operational Officer in Dignitary Protection
NOT a Certified Instructor in JKD
NOT a Trainer to Israeli Special Forces but to civilians
NOT a Trainer to the MET/London Police
NOT a Weapons and Tactics Instructor for GSG9
NOT a US Government CONTRACTED Counter Terrorism Specialist

What have we got left
He is a Trainer to Civilians willing to pay for his fake Bio and
He is a California State Militia member, a unit that will NEVER go to war.
(25 other states also have State Militias)

Wow lets see how many people with BRAINS and Money to spend will sign on for those two qualifications.

If we take away the BIG PUSH for JW from Black Belt and BUDO ,who have sold this FALSE BILL of Goods to the PUBLIC,then where would he be?

Even in his congratulations to Mr Wagner at the Black Belt Hall of Fame Award Ceremony the Head of Black Belt ,Mr Young,says:
After getting the gig with Black Belt Jim went out and booked gigs with police and Elite Military units around the world.

So basically Jim Wagner had no prior experiences on his own,he used his Contributor Status to Black Belt to get a foot in the Door of units and then claims to have TRAINED them.

Should we believe the DEA needed JW to trasin them in Tactics?
Thet The US marines needed JW to train them to shoot in Military Tactics and how to be operational in Urban environments?
That the Special Forces Needed him to help teach them use of small arms weapons and Helo ops?
That GSG9 need him to tach them Tactics and weaons employment?
That the Israeli Special Forces needed hi to teach them Terrorism survival or military employment in a hostile zone?
That he taught the Air Marshalls more than he learned from them?

The proof though is in how many call backs one gets for their materials:

ONE training course in the US in 2008, LOL.
That is all this Black Belt Hall of Fame Award winner can generate in his own country,with all those he has exposed to his Great Materials?? LOL.
From Marines to Special Forces,to DEA to INS,to Border Patrol.
Where are all the Level one Instructors looking to be level 2 or 3?

There is the Answer.LOL,LOL
ONE COURSE in the US.
ONE

Where are all the Numbers of people who VOTED for him in Balck Belt?

Is the vote down by computer?
Did the Computer Wiz figure out how to  stuff his own Ballot Box??


Since he taught as much as he learned to the Air Marshalls why did they not ask to have him come back and teach at the periodic courses.

With his ability to train people to avoid snipers,IEDs and Bio/Chem weapons,why has the Military not hired this guy.
Why has no contractor outfit made him an offer he can't refuse?
Hey he taught Mr Spurlock how to avoid and survive terror attacks and he made it back,so where are the contracts.

The REAL DEAL People Know the TRUTH.

Keep selling to those Civilians still in the Dark in Europe.

Keep selling to those who never heard of men like Johnny Kuhl and Frank Ryan in the late 60's to the 80's before you EVER started training,and the other true Pioneers of Reality,men who used the term Reality like Blauer,Dimitri,Franco and OTHERS

You know how to employ lighting effects for Reality Training well I think the lights are going out and it will be tough teaching in the Dark.
The increasing echo in the dark means you are getting to be all alone,LOL.

[lawman]

Hi folks,

ahem ..., I had contact to DEA Special Agent Jeff Clancy and after that is being said:

I guess I do owe everyone that I suspected to be unfair etc. towards JW an apologie. As I have learned now, it is not an issue to discredit another competitor. Took me long enough, but hey at least I got it now (loyalty can be disastrous)!

Still liked the new angles I caught from him, even though that alone wasn't worth the money and I DO have a problem being lied to.

[JimH]

quote Wagner from his site:
"I must deal with this, because these liars are trying to take business away from me, from you, my directors all over the world, and put all Reality-Based Personal Protection instructors on the defensive.”

Liars ,Mr Wagner ,are those who EMBELLISH the truth and EXAGGERATE their background to sell themselves.
you,Mr Wagner,are a LIAR

quote Wagner from his site
" The attacks were indeed clever by these competitors because they could not attack the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Personal Protection system directly."

As a person who has taken your course and listened to your stories I CAN SAY your course is nothing but basic Martial arts as seen in EVERY art form taught on this planet.
As all basics are usable,kicking and punching,yours is no different,Basic Material.

The problem I have is not with the basic Materials,it is with the EMBELLISHED BS BIO and FICTITIOUS EXAGGERATED PAST.

So one must question the Founder who has the questionable past,not the basic materials everyone in the world teaches.

Quote Wagner from his site:
"One guy accusing me in England had zero military, and zero police experience, and yet he just enjoyed criticizing my background."

Mr Wagner the man you speak of does a job you probably want to get into for a month or two and then get out of.
He has NEVER Claimed Military or Police Experience.
But
YOU ,Mr Wagner ,have made claims to have taught when indeed you went along for the ride of other HSS instructors and claimed those trainers and people they trained as being YOUR STUDENTS.

YOU ,MR WAGNER ,Have made claim to having been on and done things you have not.
At you NYC seminar in august 2003 you DID in fact claim to having been an NCO in the US Army,in an Infantry unit,where you had to break up fights between YOUR men and found the arts you studied until then DID NOT work.
Now it turns out you did 8 months,most of that wanting out of the Army.

You claimed to have worked in a Jail dealing with constant fights,shankings,improvised weapons for two years.
Then we find that Costa Mesa Jail has a limited capacity and holds suspects for UP TO 6 hours.

You claimed to have been ON A SWAT Team and say you had done many encounters as a Team member.
The Fact is you ran the Tactical Operations Center with the specific job of producing building Blue prints when needed.

These Alone are claims that launched you in your REALITY BASED system and got you into Black Belt Magazine.

Did you tell Black Belt Magazine the Truth when you solicited them to write for them?

I will not go into all the units you say YOU >YOURSELF<TRAINED which were really HSS Jobs you tagged along on and got a picture with.

I have nothing to sell.
I am NOT a competitor teaching anything on a seminar/circuit level.

I am a person who paid money to take a course with you and who was mislead by your BS.
I am a person who reads your articles in the Mags and see you exaggerations and how you suck people in.

I am a person who believes you have gone far enough in your ripping people off and I am just one of MANY others who WILL make the facts KNOWN so that others can SEE and then DECIDE if your BS is worth the money to train with you.

I am a person who knows that when more people come on board and decide to come forward with information about you,that we cannot get from your employers,we will see A LOT More things about you that will probably make people stop looking at you all together and the Mags will have NO Option but to forget you.

I am sure Black Belt would like nothing more than regular articles by REAL DEAL people like Kelly McCann or maybe the man you ripped off Mr Jeff Clancy.

I think you have a psychological problem.
You do not even see your exaggerated self.
This is also why you are on POWNET as a phony.

Those who have questioned you are not exaggerating anything,they are and have done the things they have in life and do not sell some BS Bio and you take exception to being questioned by them or by anyone.

There are people who say:
Well Wagners material work so why not leave him alone.
Well I live in NY,just outside the city and the news carries stories of people who have died going to phony plastic surgeaons,phony dentists,phony doctors and then we find out that these Phonies have been operating as what they claimed for YEARS without incident.
Oprah even had phonies on her show,because no one did a check.
There must be many of their patients that thought they were Great at what they did.
I wonder how many would go back to those phonies if they knew they were not what they claimed?

You ,Mr Wagner ,are a PHONY

[noload]

The core reasons are the psychological aspects that you are noting in his writing. He is incorragable, nuerotically defiant, and...and might not even know it? it is sad really.

Hock, I've been in the martial arts for quite a while and have encountered all sorts of characters, some good, some bad. Heck, I even practiced CDT for a year though I always laughed at Patire's Homdo legend which just seemed like a variation on the Hwa Rang Do legend. In short I've gotten used to and just accepted that hype, fantasy, playing loose and fast with the facts, and lineage wars were just part of the martial arts. But I've never seen anyone like Wagner.  To quote (though abbreviated by me) an online acquaintance of mine, "We have spent our entire lives creating a detailed mythic story of who we are. Nothing in this story is by chance. The biggest threat to this story are those inconvenient little things called facts. When someone's story is threatened by facts, watch the scramble. Facts can be denied, and often are."
What gets me is not that Wagner is creating a mythic story, but how much of an epic it is.

For example...

The two years at the Sheriff's Department (2000-2002) was a time where Jim Wagner not only perfected his bodyguard and firearms skills, but where he became involved in other high-speed training: gas & oil platform takedowns off of the coast of California, bus assault, tactical rappel courses, aircraft assault, ship assault, tactical swim and SCUBA courses, police maritime search & rescue, helicopter assault, foreign sniper courses, and lots of police and military defensive tactics courses.

When did this guy have time to eat, sleep or defecate much less train others and do DPU? I don't know the level of training or number of hours he did in these areas, but it gives the impression that he was also perfecting his gas & oil platform takedowns along with his firearms and bodyguard skills.

Check this out

Sergeant Wilfred Moreno, took a look at his file and saw the amount of training and experience Jim had, he, with the authorization of Sheriff Mike Carona, promoted him to the rank of sergeant with full police powers (Level 1 Reserve Designate due to his experience and Intermediate P.O.S.T. certificate) only a few months later and placed him on the newly formed Dignitary Protection Unit (DPU) as a team leader and trainer. During this stint, working out of the Katella Facility in the city of Orange, Jim was a bodyguard for diplomats, celebrities, VIPs, and as a personal bodyguard for the Sheriff himself. This now gave Jim the opportunity to teach defensive tactics and tactics full time, but also kept him "in the game" of law enforcement.

If this is true he may want to downplay the Sheriff/DPU connection.
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jul/12/local/me-carona12

What's sad Hock, is that if he had played things straight and just used his actual experience and training he may have done even better.

[JimH]

Quote Jim Wagner from his site

"December 2003 for the Israel Defense Forces. Jim was once again invited to train in Israel, only this time it was for new recruits, and their Special Forces selection, at the famous Wingate Institute where the Israeli martial art of Krav Maga was born. However, Jim was not teaching on the civilian side of the facility, but on the military side of the house known as Baghad 8. Very few foreigners have been invited to teach there. "

"On September 11, 2001 Islamic terrorists attacked the United States, and the next day Sergeant Jim Wagner was assigned to anti-terrorism duties with his department. His first assignment was to run the main check point for John Wayne Airport of Orange County. He was one of the few law enforcement officers in the region that had been trained to identify Arab terrorists. He was familiar with the latest tactics they were using because of the training he had received in Israel only a few months prior to the attacks. "

Key words in the first Paragraph above;
"ONLY THIS TIME"
"Jim was not teaching on the civilian side of the facility, but on the military side of the house known as Baghad 8"

I was wondering how/why on Sept 11,2001 ,Mr Wagner was assigned to anti terrorism duties and ran the main gate at John Wayne Airport because ,as he claims,he was one of the few law enforcement officers in the region trained to identify Arab Terrorists.tactics he was familiar with because of training he received in Israel a few months prior?

From the above quotes Mr Wagner's first training mission to Israel was to the CIVILIAN side.
He went to the MILITARY side in 2003.

So Mr Wagner are you claiming to have been taught to Identify Arab Terrorists In Israel on the Civilian side of the house prior to 2001?

Also on your web site you have a picture which Claims :
"Mr Wagner and his students from the 19th Special Forces"
The Picture shows men wearing Maroon Berets.
These men ARE NOT SPECIAL FORCES,Special Forces Wear GREEN BERETS.
The men pictured are Military Intelligence.(Support Unit)
(perhaps Military Intelligence assigned to a Special Forces Unit but NOT SPECIAL FORCES Members)

[JimH]

Mr Wagner I have a question on the CSMR article on your site:

The picture of you on the cover of Black Belt was a photo shoot for Black Belt it was not shot at the H2H training was it?

You say YOU TAUGHT the H2H course:
Can you tell me were you the PRIMARY Instructor?
How many Men actual Police Officers,military and Black Belts were teaching the course?

If I remember correctly I believe there were about 10 Instructors listed and you were the LAST one mentioned as your Bio on that was that you were a Contributor to Black Belt Mag and a Self Defense Instructor.

Where was the mention of your Military,Police ,SWAT and Counter Terrorism Training/Jobs ??

In the Clip of the C130 air drop can you tell me:

Are you a Member of an Air Crew?
Are you a Qualified LOAD  Master?
(we know you are a Load but are you a load Master? lol)
Are you Airborne Qualified?
Or
Did you hitch a ride on the drop and take the film?

My perception of you in the clip is that you a SCARED crapless and you were well off the end of the Platform and even well back from the Hinge

I see you standing OFF the Platform and I notice you are NOT Wearing a Chute,You are wearing a regular Steel pot unlike anyone else in the AIR Crew who are wearing Halo Helmets.
Do you know why they are not wearing steel pots as you?

Ever do a self rip /HAHO/HALO/LAHO/LALO jump with a steel pot on?

You are pictured Holding a safety line for the Rearward positioned Load Master.

Another Nice action shot portraying BS

Due to Your Position in CSMR No other Information of you in the CSMR will be issued.
OPSEC,from you? LOL

You are a Provost Marshall for a transportation unit.

You do one day a month Guarding or training to guard a Truck Holding Pen.

Please stop the Insanity
(Susan Powter said it so do not steal it,lol)

There are People out here who can see the BS.

Keep it coming ,LOL.

[JeffC]

Jim H

Excellent observations.  Take note of how he removes his sunglasses every time the camera zooms in for a close up of his face.  Seems to be real focused on his "mission" doesn't he?

Keep up the great posts-----more to follow.   

Jeff C

[noload]

Also on your web site you have a picture which Claims :
"Mr Wagner and his students from the 19th Special Forces"
The Picture shows men wearing Maroon Berets.
These men ARE NOT SPECIAL FORCES,Special Forces Wear GREEN BERETS.
The men pictured are Military Intelligence.(Support Unit)
(perhaps Military Intelligence assigned to a Special Forces Unit but NOT SPECIAL FORCES Members)

Here is the letter in regards to the 19th SF that supports what you wrote. I'm a civilian but to me it doesn't read as if he was the trainer of "his students". Also it clearly references the "MI Det" which I'd guess doesn't mean "Mission Impossible".
http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images/MIL_Letter_SF.pdf

[JeffC]

The military has always followed a very strict protocol for the signature and dissemination of official letters and documents.  I question the validity of this letter due to it's very informal nature, lack of signature by the battalion commander (in this case a LT Colonel or Major promotable) or one of his designated representatives.  Additionally, the letter is signed name only (Sergeant so and so) with no corresponding title (ie training NCO, readiness NCO, etc.)

Let's look at the signature and addressee for a moment.  Sergeants (E-5s) do not sign formal correspondence written on a command letterhead to civilian VIPs (in this case a chief of police).  That authority rests exclusively with the battalion commander, his executive officer and/or S-1 administrative officer.  Moreover, the letter is addressed to name only, Chief of Police.  Chief of police for what department??

The letter is very ambiguous about JW's role here.  It stated that he was a "visitor" but in what capacity?  Was he invited as an instructor?  One could interpret from the letter that he was allowed to participate in a live fire exercise.  I don't know too many civilians that get to participate in military live fire exercises so I have to wonder about this.

It gets more intriguing by the minute. 

Stay tuned. 

Jeff C 

It turns out that the letter is legit and apparently the sergeant did in fact
prepare the letter as a favor to JW.  Probably done without command knowledge or approval.  Now here's a surprise; an HSS instructor assigned to the detachment arranged for JW's visit that weekend.   
 

[noload]

I'm just a dumb civilian but these stories seem kind of funny in an operational & tactical sort of way.

Another exciting day on the job was when one hot summer day at the John Wayne Airport (SNA) one of Jim's team mates phoned him up on his government cell phone just before a rendez-vous for a mission and told him, "Jim, I am being followed by some Middle Eastern men. I believe they are terrorists. Do me a favor and set up a counter-surveillance when you come into the airport. I am at carousel 2. How many minutes before you are here?"

Jim retells the story, "I went up to the second floor and observed my team member below who acting like he was waiting for some luggage. There was a Middle Eastern man talking on the phone. My team mate, Shawn B., was on the phone with me, but playing it cool acting like he was just talking to a friend to let him know where to pick him up at. When Shawn started to move to the next carousel the suspect started following him. From what I had learned about surveillance from the London Metropolitain Police and counter-surveillance courses at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center I knew this was a 'bad guy.' We didn't want to burn our cover so I had the Orange Sheriff's Department respond. A female deputy responded and talked to the one man I had under observation. I never did see the other one. Shawn and I did not dare reveal ourselves. Obviously the female deputy had no training in anti-terrorism for she spoke with the suspect for only 30 seconds, and then let the guy go to our horror." From that day on Jim learned to rely on his own team members to get the job done and not other agencies not up to speed.

If his partner thought he was "being followed by some Middle Eastern men. I believe they are terrorists." and JW was certain they were "bad guys", why would JW be concerned about burning his cover, wasn't it already blown? After the female LEO talked with 'bad guy' #1 and let him go why not follow 'bad guy' #1 and locate the second 'bad guy'?

In the following JW spots another possible ME terrorist doing "surveillance on an aircraft bound for Washington, D.C."
So why would JW let the suspected terrorist onto the plane with other passengers instead of taking him down where JW and his team had more room to operate with fewer civilians around, why would JW question the suspected terrorist on the jet way instead of somewhere more secure, why would the suspected terrorist be doing surveillance while carrying sensitive documents? I'm sure I'm just ignorant and missing the logic of JW's story.

During one mission, Jim Wagner spotted a Middle Eastern man doing surveillance on an aircraft bound for Washington, D.C. Jim followed him into the aircraft with his team and blended in with the boarding passengers. Upon the signal Jim and his team took the man into custody and secured the aircraft. While Jim questioned the man in the jet way and searched his briefcase he found unusual diagrams that he did not understand, even though Jim had taken years of architectural, mechanical, and electrical drafting in school. When Jim pushed him for an answer the man nervously spouted, "They have to do with nuclear things!" and would not elaborate further. He refused to talk. Two hours later the FBI whisked the man off.

 

[Wardog]

  That is hysterical! The only thing worse than a liar is a bad liar. One who figures people are so stupid they won't figure it out. Excellent points noload. 

  I really like the "just before a rendez-vous for a mission". Translation...we were just about to catch a plane.