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  • January 18, 2018, 06:05:14 AM
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Author Topic: 50 stabs and slashes  (Read 6703 times)

Hock

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50 stabs and slashes
« on: February 18, 2005, 07:05:02 PM »

So...I am watching Oprah....(Hey! It was on at the gym, on about 10 TV sets) Today's show was about husbands who murder their wives. Great information. One guy stabbed and slashed his wife 50 times. She lived and was telling the story on the show. She felt little to no pain until she was stabbed in the lung. He was trying to cut her throat but she took her sweatshirt collar tightly in her teeth and this protection someone protected her from easy access. Her throat was still cut. 

Anyway, great info on this and other violence...
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200502/20050218/slide_20050218_101.jhtml

Hock

lrw

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2005, 01:14:19 PM »

Hello Hock,

I'm new to the forum and hope my first post isn't too controversial.  Let me begin by saying I in no way condone domestic violence.  It is a tragedy to individuals, families and the spiritual fabric of society.

I do want to add another perspective on domestic violence which is not generally known.  In talking with a friend who counsels victims of domestic violence I was told of a study conducted in a womens shelter over the course of a year.  They were trying to analyze the patterns of domestic violence and how it escalated.  Part way through, the individual conducting the study asked a question nobody has dared to ask before, "Who started it?"  What was found was that in 80% of the cases, the woman started the arguement.  What was more profound was that the woman did so with the realization that domestic violence was a real possibility / outcome.

There is another trigger that also rarely gets talked about.  In terms of escalation of physical confrontation, someone has to be the first one to step across the line between verbal yelling and screaming to physical force.  What I was told by my friend who is a counselor, is that many times this happens when the woman slaps or hits the man.  This triggers the man who doesn't have the self control either not to hit back or to de-escalate the situation.

In reading through the script of Oprah, it was interesting that both these factors seemed to come into play (assuming that the man interviewed was being truthful in his account of what happened the day he killed his wife).

I am stating these things not to shift blame between parties or to point fingers.  Yet, in the hopes of being objective and talking about self defense I believe there are some lessons here.

First, females have options and a responsibility in terms of how much the confrontation escalates.  Effective self defense in this regard is teaching / learning skills of how to de-escalate arguements.

Second, there is a line between physical and verbal confrontation.  Once things become physical it's a whole other ballgame.  For females, the lesson is no slapping / no hitting.  Once physical violence is innitiated (slapping someone is physical violence), it can be a long way back to a sane situation.

Healthy relationships are a blessing.  Learn to recognize them, learn to cultivate them.  These are the things worth having.

lrw 

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Professor

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2005, 01:48:02 PM »



I am stating these things not to shift blame between parties or to point fingers.  Yet, in the hopes of being objective and talking about self defense I believe there are some lessons here.

First, females have options and a responsibility in terms of how much the confrontation escalates.  Effective self defense in this regard is teaching / learning skills of how to de-escalate arguements.

Second, there is a line between physical and verbal confrontation.  Once things become physical it's a whole other ballgame.  For females, the lesson is no slapping / no hitting.  Once physical violence is innitiated (slapping someone is physical violence), it can be a long way back to a sane situation.

Healthy relationships are a blessing.  Learn to recognize them, learn to cultivate them.  These are the things worth having.

lrw 


Irw.    First welcome to the forum.

The individual committing the violence is responsible for their TRIGGERS.   As a brother, we beat the hell out of each other - but there was a line.   Were we mad?  Absolutely.  Did we control the violence....maybe.     Did we reach for a gun?  No.   We controlled that trigger.   

I most easily refer to "English Common Law":

"English law provides for the right of people to act in a manner that would be otherwise unlawful in order to preserve the physical integrity of themselves or others or to prevent any crime. It is provided in both common law and more specifically in the Criminal Law Act (1967). If such a defence is proved to the satisfaction of the court then the person is fully acquitted of the charges against them.

The act of protection must fulfill a number of conditions in order to be lawful. The defendant must believe, rightly or wrongly, that the attack is imminent. While a pre-emptive blow is lawful the time factor is also important, if there is an opportunity to retreat or to obtain protection from the police the defendant should do so—demonstrating an intention to avoid violence. However the defendant is not obliged to leave a particular location even if forewarned of the arrival of an assailant.

The other key factor is reasonableness—the defendant's response must be necessary and in proportion to the nature of the attack. The harm inflicted on the assailant must not exceed the harm being avoided by the defendant. However, like immanency, the nature of the defence rests on the defendant's belief of whether their actions were in proportion to the circumstances they believed existed." (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense


I don't care what the violence is (who started it, etc.).   I control my trigger....I have to decide when to use.....if not, I'm liable.


Again, welcome to the forum.....my .02.
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monkeyboy

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2005, 10:02:47 PM »

If someone pisses you off you simply can't beat the crap out of them. 

If your partner/wife starts getting you angry you can't beat the crap out of them either.  The fact that battered women have been convinced that they are responsible for their own beatings is ridiculous, but thats the way it is.

If you know someone being beaten or a friend is doing the beating, you have to step in.  Not necessarily physically, but attention needs to be bought to the situation as help is needed.  Screw the friendship, screw the reasons, do something before the blood is on your hands.
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Hock

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 08:29:39 AM »

Interesting to read

whitewolf

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 05:52:24 PM »

Right on the money- appreciate the input- welcome to the forum-whitewolf
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Webby

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2011, 05:40:07 AM »

Anger management is down to attitude and behaviour. If my attitude is bad it will affect your attitude which in turn effect's your behaviour. Then your behaviour effects my attitude and this in turn effect's my behaviour. In a nutshell we become ' locked in ' a short four stoke attitude and behaviour box. If you are not in control of the situation the other person is. These situation's can escalate fast. Step back. Breath. Listen and walk away if you are in a relationship that's boiling over. As Irw point's out it is the female who starts it ? Why ? Because some women are addicted to make up sex. Have the argument and the kiss and make up afterwards can be very intense sex. For some a real addiction. I've seen women also lead on men in bars and pub's, then there boyfriend ( who's watching this go on ) punches the unsuspecting guy and then the couple go home and have wild sex. Upset, aggressive violence and sexual gratification. It's a heady mix. Webby...         
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whitewolf

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2011, 07:10:12 PM »

Web-makes sense- had to read it twice though-walking away and breathing applies to most things today-every thing is moving fast ....WW
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Webby

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 04:11:05 AM »

WW,
       The best way to slow thing's down and manage the situation in a one-on-one confrontation is a tactic called ' repetitive repeating '. The guy/girl is upset mouthing off and getting good and set for a fight. You respond buy repeating what they say adding ' why did you think that ' or ' Who told you that '. Any phrase that causes them to engage logic before answering. Force them into thinking mode not acting mode. You are steering them away from the emotional brain and towards the logical brain. Your in control, letting them work through the anger. I would tell my patients ' tell me everything right from the start ', and then sit and listen. People get upset and angry because (a) They think that they are right (b) No-one else can see it. It's best to just to let them vent, don't take thing's personally and remain calm though breathing at a steady pace. If it stall's offer alternatives. Stay as calm as possable. If is life or death act !!         
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whitewolf

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 07:34:44 AM »

Web-gotya- WW
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Webby

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 10:24:41 AM »

WW,
       Irw's original point was about Domestic Violence so I've just run the stat's again. There where 53,069 domestic violence crimes reported in London during the 12 mts for March to March 2008-2009 a 4.4% increase on the previous year. London has the highest rate of Domestic Violence in the whole of England and Wales. Nationally the Police remain unaware of 81% of DV victims. 3% of the total NHS budget for England and Wales goes to treating the physical health of victims of domestic violence.

Sources Home Office British Crime Survey / www.homeoffice.gov.uk / www.womenaid.org.uk. There's good info at www.womankind.org.uk as well.     
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arnold

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Re: 50 stabs and slashes
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 06:25:12 PM »

Prof,
Good thing we knew each other and there were no "triggers" when we used to test. Otherwise we would both be dead....
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